what's the futur for gasoline van/RV/camper

[thebarefootbadger]

From a very non-tech POV here, the problem with replacing all gas powered vehicles is weight. As long as we are physically moving merchandise from place to place across the country without a rail system or some teleportation magic, we're going to need gas powered vehicles. This also applies to houses on wheels. I don't see gas power becoming a thing of the past until consumerism undergoes a radical shift, and that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

There is a youtube channel called the Royal Institution. It's a British science foundation that does Ted talk type presentations.
One talk the guy presented about how fossil fuels are incredibly energy dense. This enables us to transport a massive amount of energy via a tanker truck or ship. The presenter started his talk vaguely describing some an un-named substance that is incredibly energy dense, transportable and flexible. It seemed he was leading up to nuclear. But then he eliminated that candidate by mentioning that nuclear fission is very costly to design, maintain and dispose of.
It is this energy density, flexibility and that it can be moved, stored and traded easily that keeps us addicted to it.
The lack of easy storage and transportation for renewables is the barrier to them replacing fossil fuel.
Perhaps decentralized power generation, where every middle class home has solar panels and is connected to the power grid, is the way forward.
In some states you cannot have residential solar without being connected to the grid, paying taxes and fees on a service you are trying to avoid using!
I'm sure the rationale is safety during winter months.
But this does allow home solar users to sell power back to the grid, and it is transported to where it is needed.

 

[bigskybob]

Not to worry.In 10 years we'll all be roasted p nuts anyway.Relax and enjoy the last days of the great planet Earth.

 

[RonDean]

It occurs to me that we aren't REALLY thinking through this issue. Some of us seem just anti-electric - or is it just anti-change? - and just want to toss out a bomb now and again. Others just post about how they wish things were. And there is everyone in between.

If the subject is switching from IC to EV in everyday transportation, the major manufacturers have already made the decision. We WILL be changing.

Changing RVs to Electric is a lot less likely, as much as I wish it was different. Maybe we need to have more trading of RV accommodations and just move our bodies back and forth using a small EV?

 

[Calaverasgrande]

If they can make electric Semis they can make electric RVs.
And with many RV parks and campgrounds offering 50 amp service, the main hurdle is making sure the RV doesn't pull down the full 50 amps all the time.
Gotta save some current for the people inside, and also not blow out the service with 12 class C campers pulling as much current as they can.
Expect to be charged more for a site if you have an EV, since you will be consuming a lot more power than Joe-Bob with his lights, fridge and cooktop.

 

[rruff]

Changing RVs to Electric is a lot less likely, as much as I wish it was different.

No worries, ICE vehicles will be around for a long time. If you need the range, that's the most efficient way to go. Best tool for the job.

But do we really need range? There is a wide spectrum of "vehicle dwellers"... some poor, some rich, some minimalist, some extravagant, some nearly stationary, some very nomadic, some who like to park in town, some who like campgrounds, some who live for free on open public land.

Range isn't that big a deal for many. I'd be in the "minimalist, nomadic, parks on free public land" group, but I'd be fine with a small/light home built electric camper thing that would go maybe 100 mi on a charge. That would be enough for my weekly routine. If I could charge it on trips to town that would be nice, but if it's small and light I could just charge it with solar panels. For the very rare long trips I won't be in a hurry, and hopefully I'd be able to find places to plug it in, so I wouldn't need to park for a week every 100 mi!

One issue is that new vehicles are not built for low budget people, but rather wealthy-ish folk and businesses. So you gotta take the leftovers from that market or build your own. Electrics are simple enough that I think DIY may become viable... if we can register them. Designing, testing, and certifying for Fed standards would be impossible.

 

[rruff]

So... I was pondering the legality of making your own vehicle and driving it on the road. I know that it's possible, but I'm not sure what the restrictions are. Then I remembered that the Amish use horse and buggies all over... and that is apparently legal... and it's legal for anyone! Neither the driver, nor the horse, nor the buggy needs to pass any government standards. But if you stick an electric motor and batteries in that buggy, then you need to pass all sorts of regulations. Amazing, eh?

 

[Calaverasgrande]

It's a lot more legal to just gut a pre-existing vehicle and load it up with batteries, motors and required controllers.
If I ever end up getting a space with a garage again, this is the route I am going.
From what I understand there is some difficulty adapting power steering and brakes. But nothing insurmountable.
Gonna try to find a mid sized van or truck that I can make into an E-Vehicle.

 

[rruff]

Been looking around online. This is the most promising EV I've seen; called the XBUS. It's light (1200 lbs without batteries), highly configurable (can get it with a big cargo box), relatively cheap (starts at $20k), 120-300 mile range, can go 60 mph, designed (built?) in Germany. They are selling in Europe this year.

This guy has some good comments:

 

[Calaverasgrande]

that looks amazing.
It's hard to judge the size of it from the video.
But by the weight classification I wonder if it would pass all the safety tests they require in the US?
I know there are a few Japanese microbusses that do not, but you can still get them shipped here,
if they are at leaast 25 years old. (not sure why an older microbus is better?)

 

[rruff]

In the EU they have a special classification for lightweight vehicles and the XBUS was designed to be as big as possible and still meet that, making it street legal. I don't think we have a similar exemption in the US, but I wish we did. Our ridiculous "safety" requirements kinda force cars to be heavy, expensive, and inefficient.

The XBUS will be slow compared to any US cars, but the specs are pretty close to what I'd want if I had to live in an EV. I'd want it without any box, and add a larger one that sticks out the back a bit. Looks like it should be decent offroad.

Many videos on the internet, but no real tests. This one shows the size with the cargo box pretty well.

 

[UptownSport]

So... I was pondering the legality of making your own vehicle and driving it on the road. I know that it's possible, but I'm not sure what the restrictions are. Then I remembered that the Amish use horse and buggies all over... and that is apparently legal... and it's legal for anyone! Neither the driver, nor the horse, nor the buggy needs to pass any government standards. But if you stick an electric motor and batteries in that buggy, then you need to pass all sorts of regulations. Amazing, eh?

There's a 50 vehicle threshold after which it needs to meet crash/emissions standards.
You could just chop the VIN off some car in your grandpa's cow pasture, then request a title if you want it easier.
Some states, and some stations within the state are easier to deal with than others.
Downtown- They want to fight. In a small town there's a license station where the guy say:

"If you give me a check, I'll give you a plate."

 

[UptownSport]

There's two electric trucks at the farm. They came from some factory.
They were good for running equipment from building to building or out to the field. Simple to plug them in at their parkspot.
Quiet, they were also nice to take into the woods for a break.
There was, on two occasions, a problem with the massive amount of current melting the battery posts.

Neither are working- The batteries froze in both. I don't know how this came about, and you could suspect lack of proper care.
However, there are many, many ancient ICE vehicles and pieces of equipment that are, without exaggeration, 90 years old, that have been cared for (or not) by the same person.

They all work. I can start the ancient loader and clear snow. I can plow the fields every spring with the ancient Alis Chalmers.
The ancient chain saw cuts firewood. But neither electric vehicle works.

Again, this is simply mass fantasy. Electrics in this realm don't exist, and they're not going to get 'miracled' by the wishes of even a million keyboarders.

 

[rruff]

Again, this is simply mass fantasy. Electrics in this realm don't exist, and they're not going to get 'miracled' by the wishes of even a million keyboarders.

Why? Because your electric trucks quit running?

 

[poetinsf]

An electric camper here. I logged 7000 mi in 4 mo camping across the US in an old Tesla and a tent. I powered everything from stove to electric blanket with 2kw AC off my car. Being able to do away with solar, battery/Jackery and propane is an unassailable advantage of an EV. Operating cost is cheaper too.($0 in my case since old Teslas came with life time free charging).

In practice, you can cover the vast majority of the US with 200 mi range and 150 kw charging. Where superchargers aren't available, you can usually make do with level 2 or 3 chargers. It'll only get better as 350kw charging becomes more plentiful.

I'm planning to move to electric F150, if they ever produce the $40k one, or VW ID.buzz. Or wait for Silverado with 350kw charging, maybe. Add a pop-up camper, the mileage shouldn't suffer much.

 

[BinDerSmokDat]

The "no more gas cars by X years" is just not possible.
And just because it is law in Canada doesn't mean it will become law here.
The infrastructure and raw materials for battery manufacture just aren't there, nor is the electrical infrastructure ready for replacing all the energy that gasoline and diesel provide.
The other issue is city and town dwellers who have no way to charge vehicles at home. You'd have to have charging stations available at every curb parking space. Even today, electrical vehicles, would be perfect in more urbanized settings where range is less of an issue but they haven't made in-roads due to lack of charging infrastructure and ability to charge at home.

There will be some companies that provide retrofitting services for vehicle that are worth converting.
You put the motor where the transmission previously lived and you put the batteries where the motor once lived.
Everything can be mounted a little lower where suspension parts allow to get the center of gravity lower.

Don't get me wrong, I believe EV's are the future, but we will not be producing only EV's by 2035 in the US.
And once we do get to the point that all new vehicles are EVs, it will be another few years before they are the majority of vehicles on the road.

So build/buy a gasoline vehicle and you have quite a while before you'll need to worry about it's obsolescence or availability of fuel.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Again, this is simply mass fantasy. Electrics in this realm don't exist, and they're not going to get 'miracled' by the wishes of even a million keyboarders.

Well the EU and Canada together provide enough impetus for car companies to make it work.
You have two trucks with battery problems or charger problems.
Technology on both those fronts has improved a lot in the last couple years. LiFePo4 has much better cycle life than previous tech. And there are newer lithium formulations that are better than LiFePo4.
PWM was the norm a while back. MPPT is more efficient and better for the battery bank.
I get that people like ICE for the visceral experience. I've owned muscle cars and vintage vans with large V8s and no emissions. It's fun driving around sounding like that!
But gas is only going to get more expensive. Then as that get's too pricey you will see LPG conversions and other ways to milk ever last coulomb out of fossil fuel.
I prefer to get ahead of the curve.
Not just for AGCC but because I enjoy clean air and nature.

 

[Sky]

Been looking around online. This is the most promising EV I've seen; called the XBUS. It's light (1200 lbs without batteries), highly configurable (can get it with a big cargo box), relatively cheap (starts at $20k), 120-300 mile range, can go 60 mph, designed (built?) in Germany. They are selling in Europe this year.

This guy has some good comments:

Thanks for posting ~!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Politicians write stupid laws all the time. Only time will tell how EV mandates will work out. Murphy loves these 'top down' mandates.

There are already a number of retrofit electric conversions out there. I haven't paid much attention yet because I think the technology is not mature yet. I do think that for a complete conversion you will be spending almost as much as for new (motor, battery, suspension, power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, . . . ).

You can go on the Ford website now and get pricing on the e-pickup or e-van of your dreams right now. The prices are out of my reach and I doubt that prices will come down any time soon, which will affect the used vehicle market too.

 

[RonDean]

The "no more gas cars by X years" is just not possible.

I disagree with BinDerSmokDat's first sentence. Although the rest of his post seems to back off that somewhat. Just do a search for the auto companies that are announcing all-EV by some specific date. Add in pressure from gov'ts and others and it WILL happen.

Using an EV and a tent is probably the best solution -if you want to live in a tent. For me, I HOPE something like the EV F-150, that will accommodate some sort of camper will be available in my price range before I have to leave the road.

For many of us, this is about more than just wanting to save money on gas. As some have pointed out, transportation is not the only driver of pollution and global warming. But... IMO - it is a problem for our community to address as well as we can.