what's the futur for gasoline van/RV/camper

[tx2sturgis]

some diesel pickups make about the same HP as 18 wheeler, and are close on torque... and the Rivian electric pickup beats big rigs on HP... 835 horsepower and 908 lb-ft of torque!

But can it do that for a half hour pulling 80,000 pounds up a long steep grade?

I doubt it.

 

[Sky]

My sisters family has a hybrid and an electric car.
The hybrid almost never needs to use it's engine since it's a 'plug in hybrid' it can charge up like and all electric.
They have a modest solar array on their ranch style home. Even in the winter it's enough to keep both cars charged and put a serious dent in the power bill.
Judging from what I've seen across the southeast this fall a lot of middle class homeowners are going this route.
Such vehicles are no more expensive than internal combustion engines.
As far as resource extraction, the aluminum and steel for internal combustion engines are mined as well. Whichever way you go your money contributes to strip mining and pollution. And speaking of pollution, there is no reason power MUST use coal, other than tax abatements and other policies which lessen friction in that direction.
If we put as much money into renewable energy as we put into the defense department (3/4 of trillion?!) we would be done switching over by now.

Thank you ! Calaverasgrande for that information and for being an informed intelligent person which has been nearly and extinct species LOL ! ~ Yes we could have been renewable long ago but it was not in the monied interest$ who seem to think all resources are infinite and at no costs. Good to hear that you have observed an uptick in individuals as I believe it is the consumer changing their consumption as the only way we may barely make it through this and force change by how we consume or not,

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Actually depending on how they implement it, electric motors have crazy higher amounts of torque than gas or diesel.
Few years back there was a vid going around of some guys in Australia who make electric hot rods.
They kept twisting the frames of smaller cars until they figured how to brace them against it.
Making trucks or semis wont be about horsepower or torque, but about power storage vs distance.
You can make a semi now, but how many miles does the average semi need to go every day? How do you charge that semi?
In fact Benz, Volvo and others are already making these to be rolled out in the next few years. Expect UPS and Amazon to be the big adopters. Since they can just set up charging stations at their various depots.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yeah. Tesla Class 8 Semi? Vaporware.

Nikola Class 8 Semi? Vaporware PLUS investor scam.

I wont be holding my breath.

 

[rruff]

You think it would over heat? At any rate, no special tricks are needed to make bigger electric motors for large trucks.

Yeah. Tesla Class 8 Semi? Vaporware.

The problem isn't building the motors or the trucks, it's infrastructure needed to support them.

 

[John in Montreal]

A lot can happen in 10 years....and a lot of politicians and law-makers have NO idea how much damage is done to the earth from mining all the chemicals needed for millions of the large lithium batteries used in electric vehicles. Not to mention the added strain on the electrical grid, which is already strained, and all the additional coal we will have to mine, haul, and burn to make all this additional electricity.

Solar power is cheaper than coal.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Solar power is cheaper than coal.

Over the 40 year life of a typical coal vs solar generation plant, yes, solar can be a bit cheaper but you STILL have to have gas or coal power as a backup, and solar is not cheaper than natural gas power generation over the life of the plant. But since about 50% of US power production and consumption is from coal-fired power plants, that means about 50% (more or less) of the electric cars on the road right now are burning coal...remotely.

And grids powered by solar is really a moot point right now since solar power generation only supplies about 1% of the total power consumed in the USA.

It's just not there yet. Yes, it's changing, but in the near future, our infrastructure is still largely coal-powered.

 

[tx2sturgis]

You think it would over heat? At any rate, no special tricks are needed to make bigger electric motors for large trucks.

The problem isn't building the motors or the trucks, it's infrastructure needed to support them.

I suspect that the 800 and 900 hp and torque ratings for any consumer level EV are for very short duty cycles. A typical 15 liter, 550 hp 1500 foot-pound diesel engine in a semi truck can put out that level of horsepower continuously, for an hour or more, in 120 degree heat, and without overheating beyond safe levels. The secret is, cooling capacity, lots of it, and the radiators and cooling system are matched to the horsepower of the engine.

Infrastructure is a huge part of the equation for EVs, and cross country trucking is 100% dependent on infrastructure, which I have said many times, in lots of posts over the past few years when the topic comes up. Until you get the infrastructure for cross country EV trucking, you wont have very many cross-country EV trucks, except in small limited trials for investors and media.

But also, battery technology is not quite there yet...so it's a chicken-and-egg situation...which will come first? Batteries capable of 1500 mile range powering a truck pulling 45,000 pounds of cargo and then able to fully recharge in 30 minutes and go another 1500 miles are not reality yet, but neither is the infrastructure to support all of that. Yet, class 8 trucks do that day in and day out on a few hundred dollars of diesel fuel...safely and efficiently.

 

[rruff]

And grids powered by solar is really a moot point right now since solar power generation only supplies about 1% of the total power consumed in the USA.

It isn't going to change very quickly... that's why it isn't very helpful going to electric vehicles if they are going to be as big as the ICE ones we've become accustomed to. Trucks hauling cargo need to be big of course, but our commuter vehicles are much larger than they need to be. Basically we waste energy everywhere, because it isn't expensive enough to worry about...

I'd be fine if my vagabond vehicle was an electric scooter pulling a small trailer, if that's all I could afford.

 

[olbuzzard]

You know? If we do all go to solar / generator powered vehicles in order to save the planet we might just be inviting our doom. There will be all this fossil fuel just waiting for outer space invaders to come and take it from us. It might be the primary reason for coming. But they might also like to breed us like cattle because we might just taste too good to pass up. I mean by leaving the fossil fuel like that we might just be considered dumb animals to them.

Heard corn fed kids taste best. Tender & juicy. Free range vegan kids tend to taste gamey.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

As far as electro-semis go I don't think the problem will be infrastructure. Early adopters like Amazon are happy to dump money into building out such things for themselves. It's a tax write off to them.
The problem will be operation in winter temps, same as with regular electric vehicles. They will have to have heated battery banks in order to charge and discharge efficiently.
But then there are benefits too. You know that loud snorting sound semi tractors make going down hill or around turns? Thats engine braking.
Electric trucks could do regenerative braking which would recover energy for the battery bank to store. This increases efficiency.
Looks like a few mainstream companies like Freightliner have such vehicles ready to go.
Ford has it's E-Transit debuting this year too.
Sure a lot of the charging may come from coal. But solar has been getting cheaper. Wouldn't be shocked to see corps like UPS and Fedex covering their distro hubs in solar if they start buying fleets of E-trucks. It would be a big investment up front, but save them millions in the long run.

 

[Sky]

Actually depending on how they implement it, electric motors have crazy higher amounts of torque than gas or diesel.
Few years back there was a vid going around of some guys in Australia who make electric hot rods.
They kept twisting the frames of smaller cars until they figured how to brace them against it.
Making trucks or semis wont be about horsepower or torque, but about power storage vs distance.
You can make a semi now, but how many miles does the average semi need to go every day? How do you charge that semi?
In fact Benz, Volvo and others are already making these to be rolled out in the next few years. Expect UPS and Amazon to be the big adopters. Since they can just set up charging stations at their various depots.

Thanks for that info. and as for; "You can make a semi now, but how many miles does the average semi need to go every day? How do you charge that semi?" I do not see why the semi rolling down the highways axels cannot be recharging the batteries similar to hybrids and or have catch panels on them mounted collecting more energy and then there is the stop and gas up stations as they do now except they could get a booster charge if needed.

 

[tx2sturgis]

You know that loud snorting sound semi tractors make going down hill or around turns? Thats engine braking.

Let me help you. The 'loud snorting sound' made from SOME class 8 tractors is from UNMUFFLED engine braking. As supplied when new, engine brakes are almost inaudible in use.

Typical fleet vehicles with no modifications to the exhaust system make almost zero additional noise when engine braking...you will not know they are doing it if you are 50 feet away.

The loud 'jake brake' sound is usually caused by engine braking on trucks with straight pipes and with the mufflers removed. With those big mufflers in place, you will hear very little actual engine noise, under power OR when engine braking. Remove the mufflers, and poof. Lots of noise. Usually the DPF (diesel particulate filter) which provides some noise suppression as well as emission controls, is removed also.

This is typically done by very small fleets and owner/operators to decrease back pressure, increase horsepower, and you know...to sound 'loud and proud'...or obnoxious....pick one.

But to address the concept. There is never more energy produced traveling downhill during regenerative braking than was originally consumed going up the hill under power.

Yes some energy can be recovered but it is typically less then 10% efficient on regenerative braking. You have to coast downhill 20 miles to get 2 miles worth of recovered power. It is certainly better than nothing...but no where near enough to offset the costs involved in switching to electric.

 

[Wrknmannavn]

On this new year's day, I was wondering if any vandwellers out there, think about what will happen in a few years, when electric automotive will take the place of gasoline vehicules ? Here in Canada, it's already known, that 2035 is the year where no more gasoline cars will be sold (truck and commercial vehicules are exclude) Right now I could sell my old 1990 class B RV 3 times the price I paid 3 years ago... what will happen in 10 years ???? Will our old rigs value will go down to nothing ??? Will they come out with ''gasoline/electric'' kits ??
Just worried a bit about it !

In my opinion, I feel that just because new gasoline vehicles won’t be sold doesn’t mean that the existing gasoline vehicles will just disappear. some may disagree with me but gasoline will always be around. The world is too dependent on fossil fuels. Solar, wind and hydro don’t create enough stable power.

 

[Sofisintown]

... what will happen in 10 years ???? Will our old rigs value will go down to nothing ??? Will they come out with ''gasoline/electric'' kits ??
Just worried a bit about it !

In 10 years from now, the price of my vehicle (2004), will have dropped down to nothing anyway, if it and me, are both still alive. I am not about to worry about that now, instead,I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[John in Montreal]

Over the 40 year life of a typical coal vs solar generation plant, yes, solar can be a bit cheaper but you STILL have to have gas or coal power as a backup

Nope. EV's have huge batteries so you don't need gas/coal for backup.

Once you have enough people riding in EV's you can use those batteries to build a grid based on renewables.

 

[rruff]

In 10 years from now, the price of my vehicle (2004), will have dropped down to nothing anyway

After they are no longer made, gas vehicles will be cheap... though probably expensive to use due to infrastructure switching to electric. Then after another decade or so they'll be expensive collectors items if in good shape. By then we'll have used EV vans that are efficient and work well for vagabonds. No worries...

 

[thegoodtom1]

A friend of mine owns a beautifully restored model A Ford. He had me install period correct turn signals on it (I cried when I had to drill a hole in the pass. fender for the second light). There will always be those who collect and use older technology for nostalgia, because they're used to it, or whatever the reason. I, myself roll in a '79 Itasca 23RG because it has a layout that is better for me (bathroom up front) than ALL the cookie cutter new rigs. Electric is becoming slowly more popular because we haven't found anything better yet. It might be nothing more than a footnote in the future if they can get a cold fusion Tokamat going. Ironman's power may be fantasy now but common reality later. Who knows? But whatever rig manages to defy the test of time by being taken care of will eventually be treasured. I will die in my rig unless unforseen circumstances take it from me. So I am not worried about value. Just enjoy your rig and maintain and improve it as you can. A useful home will always have value to someone.

thegoodtom1

P.S. Any alien coming to this backwater system would only care about our water. Planets and moons have oceans of liquid methane and If a 'fill up' was needed, It's more likely they would draw from our sun than any fossil fuel from our planet.

 

[DudeInAVan]

Humans are terrible at recognizing and integrating all of the moving parts involved with any complex subject such as this, so while it's fun to predict how things will play out, our track record strongly suggests that we'll all end up being spectacularly wrong in one way or another. Even the experts -- probably especially them. Going back and reading what the investing pros were recommending 10 or 20 years ago makes for a fine illustration of this.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Nope. EV's have huge batteries so you don't need gas/coal for backup.

I am referring to massive power production facilities, not an individual vehicle.

I stated solar (and wind) power plants always need a backup source of electricity for the communities they serve since there is no solar power generated after dark and no (or very little) wind power on calm days. I am correct on this. If you re-read my first sentence in post number 28, you should be able to understand my statement.

BTW not all EVs have 'huge batteries'...some of the 'budget' EVs have small batteries and only go about 100 miles or so on a charge.