weird OCCASIONAL panic problem

[SoulRaven]

Pat, my heart goes out to you. Keep giving us updates as things change.

Thanks... we'll make it ... somehow.   The kindness is very much appreciated.

 

[slynne]

Are there dirt backroads you could try? Maybe it would help him if you drove really slow, like under 30mph? It would take a while to get to California at that rate but heck, if you are retired, you got nothing but time. Plus gas use is less at lower speeds

I have found that with my crazy dog, I often ended up with solutions by accident. My dog is really scared of storms. She has ripped my bathroom sink off the wall and got the water hoses loose when there was a storm while I was at work. I almost put her down. And then, quite by accident we were driving and a storm was coming so I decided to park the car until it was over because she freaks out so much during storms, it would be dangerous to drive with her. I was downtown at the time and the parking garage was an underground one. That is how I found out that she is ok in the car four stories under the street where she can't hear the storm. Now she gets left in the parking garage whenever I go to work when there is a forecast for rain. I hope you stumble upon your own solution to this. I am rooting for you guys!

 

[SoulRaven]

Are there dirt backroads you could try? Maybe it would help him if you drove really slow, like under 30mph? It would take a while to get to California at that rate but heck, if you are retired, you got nothing but time. Plus gas use is less at lower speeds

I have found that with my crazy dog, I often ended up with solutions by accident. My dog is really scared of storms. She has ripped my bathroom sink off the wall and got the water hoses loose when there was a storm while I was at work. I almost put her down. And then, quite by accident we were driving and a storm was coming so I decided to park the car until it was over because she freaks out so much during storms, it would be dangerous to drive with her. I was downtown at the time and the parking garage was an underground one. That is how I found out that she is ok in the car four stories under the street where she can't hear the storm. Now she gets left in the parking garage whenever I go to work when there is a forecast for rain. I hope you stumble upon your own solution to this. I am rooting for you guys!

Actually, yes, there are dirt backroads ... and Taz does NOT mind them!  As long as I start and end on one... 

But it does give me something to work with.  Thanks very much, slynne!

 

[ArtW]

I sounds like maybe a previous owner (or six, people can be truly horrible) dumped him, and he's afraid you will, too
That's pure speculation, and unfortunately I have no solution to offer if that is the case

 

[B and C]

This is just a wild thought.  You said he did it in the last two vehicles.  Did both have the same tire brand and type?  I know I have had some in the past that I could hear sing at higher speeds.  It could be a high pitch you don't hear.  Just a thought.

 

[TrainChaser]

Pnolans: "As soon as we stopped at a stoplight that would lead us to a 2 lane country road heading to Eastern Colorado, he started shaking and salivating and giving litle short cries."

Do some of the intersections where you drive have those audible tones for blind pedestrians? Could that be a part of a sensory issue???

 

[Goshawk]

Try sound therapy. Play different calming music for the dog. You can even get a nature tape with babbling brooks. Or crickets.


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[SoulRaven]

This is just a wild thought.  You said he did it in the last two vehicles.  Did both have the same tire brand and type?  I know I have had some in the past that I could hear sing at higher speeds.  It could be a high pitch you don't hear.  Just a thought.

No, but not a bad thought.  Nissan Altima, Subaru Outback ... currently 98 Jeep Cherokee XJ , F150 ... all different size tires, different tread patterns.... 

Even when I drive 40 MPH and pull over frequently, on the roads he's scared on (which are NO LONGER just Interstate) he still starts to panic.   

Trainchaser: The particular intersection we were at doesn't have those audio sounds... it's way out in the country , tho in the city limits. 

ArtW... not a bad idea, and I'm willing to try most things... the behavior that I've observed, however, is that his behavior goes from "0 to 60 " in less than a second.    He can be calm and happy, and immediately goes into panic stage.  When he SEES we're about to go on a road he doesn't like. 

Maybe I can make a video so that  folks can actually see what I've been trying to describe.  

Today, I'm going to try slynne's suggestion and go south on the dirt road that goes around the SouthEast side of Pikes Peak.  It eventually will hook up with a paved road that we've never been on before. 
Maybe if I go on roads he hasn't been on before, he may have no bad memories of.  ?  It's worth a try.

 

[SoulRaven]

Today, I'm going to try slynne's suggestion and go south on the dirt road that goes around the SouthEast side of Pikes Peak.  It eventually will hook up with a paved road that we've never been on before. 
Maybe if I go on roads he hasn't been on before, he may have no bad memories of.  ?  It's worth a try.

tried the above, altho I used a different road... saw some improvement... enough to feel like I have something to work with. 
I'll post some pictures later of the "road" .... had some snow up there, and we all like to play in snow..  Well, Taz , Lacy and I do!  

 

[SoulRaven]

tried the above, altho I used a different road... saw some improvement... enough to feel like I have something to work with. 
I'll post some pictures later of the "road" .... had some snow up there, and we all like to play in snow..  Well, Taz , Lacy and I do!  

So, below are 3 pictures of the "road" we were on... It's called Rampart Range Road... i was driving about 10 mph , especially once we got up into the snow.  Taz was still whining a little bit, not too bad, and shaking a little bit.  Which is really weird, because we were up that road about 2.5 months ago, and he showed NO signs of fear at all.  

But .. I stopped several times, especially once we were in the snow, and let him and Lacy run around... we even did a little hiking. 
The situation today was manageable, and gives me a lot of hope that , with some work on my part (and his), we can learn to be vandwellers.  


Thanks for all of the suggestions... all of them have carried some value, and at the very least given me things to consider.  

Happy Thanksgiving.

Pat

 

[Stargazer]

This may sound cruel or mean so let me preface it by saying I love dogs, have owned many, have one now.  I learned years ago that if you want a behavior to stop, you must NEVER reward that behavior.  For instance, when I would enter the house after being gone for even just an hour, the dogs would jump all over me, so "happy" to see me.  I tried everything to get them to stop. What worked?  I started to ignore them for the first five minutes after walking in.  Really ignore them, no eye contact, no pushing them away, no yelling "OFF", pretend they're not even there.  It worked!  Took a couple of weeks.  Now she waits until I greet her first.  Same thing with begging for food when I'm eating.  She would sit at my feet and bark until I gave her a bite.  I started to ignore her, again NO eye contact, pretend she's not there.  She still sits at my feet but does so quietly.  She gets the last bite.  When my Son-in-law is around, she reverts back to barking because he looks at her and shares bits when she barks.  And she knows this!

You say that at first, your companion loved going for rides.  Perhaps she has learned that if she freaks out, you will stop and let her out to play.  What an incentive for her to act out!  You drive down a road for the first time, the dog is quiet.  The second time, she acts out and you stop to let her out to play.  Smart dog!

Now comes the hard part.  I would try the ignore therapy.  Take a deep breath, remind yourself this is for the dog's peace of mind long term.  Start with a full gas tank.  Cover the upholstery to keep it clean as best you can.  Secure the dog (crate, seat belt/harness setup), get on the freeway and drive.  Do not stop if she gets upset.  Just keep on driving.  If necessary, stop only to resecure her.  Do not offer food, water, treats, soothing words, NOTHING!!  You must totally and completely ignore her.  She knows that if she does "this", you will do "that".  You must outlast her!  You must NEVER let her out to play when she does her crazy thing.  Not once, "just this one time", not ever.  I would drive until she calms down for at least 15-20 minutes, then stop and let her out.  She must learn that calm means play, crazy means no attention.  It will be difficult to do this because you will feel like the ultimate bad guy.  You must be strong!  I would do this daily, all day if necessary, until she gets the idea.  She's a smart dog and has trained you to do what she wants.  You need to take back control because a dog that is out of control is not a happy dog.  You want what's best for your pet.  If you can't resolve this, it would be best for the dog to find her a home that is more compatible for her.  It would be cruel to keep her in a situation that makes her miserable because of what YOU want.

I hope this helps.  you have my sympathy in having to deal with this.  It's hard, I know.

Good Luck and Best Wishes.

 

[SoulRaven]

[snip]

You say that at first, your companion loved going for rides.  Perhaps she has learned that if she freaks out, you will stop and let her out to play.  What an incentive for her to act out!  You drive down a road for the first time, the dog is quiet.  The second time, she acts out and you stop to let her out to play.  Smart dog!
[snip]
Now comes the hard part.  I would try the ignore therapy.   If you can't resolve this, it would be best for the dog to find her a home that is more compatible for her.  It would be cruel to keep her in a situation that makes her miserable because of what YOU want.

I hope this helps.  you have my sympathy in having to deal with this.  It's hard, I know.

Good Luck and Best Wishes.

It doesn't sound cruel , not to me.  It's just that I've tried it before.  We drove 5 1/2 hours and I just ignored him, other than to give him and Lacy a chance to pee.  And that may be the solution.   And he never stopped.  

He still loves going for rides... in town.  He seems to not want to LEAVE town!  So, maybe I spoil him... but my dog is not miserable. 
I'm not sure where that came from!     But he DOES win, and I'm letting him... Currently, I simply leave him at home when I'm going somewhere he freaks out on.   The reason I've asked for help is that come Jan 1, I will be driving my home.  

I'd need a lot of convincing to "find a home for him"... I've thought about it.  But I've had him for 7 years, and I accepted responsibility for providing a "forever home" when I rescued him.   Those who have dog sat for him in the past tell me that he is obedient, but never settles down when I'm gone.    

In any case, I am determined to not let this beat us.  So, thanks for the good wishes and great ideas.  Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[SoulRaven]

Status update:

Satuday, Taz , Lacy and I took a drive up to Woodland Park.. a town about 20 miles West and about 2k feet higher.  I simply raised the center console in my truck to make it one complete bench seat.  So, I gave the "ignoring therapy" a try.  To give Stargazer their due, I found it much easier to ignore Taz when he couldn't get on the console.   If necessary, I CAN drive to Waco to pick up my cargo trailer with this .... 

My BIG goal is to try to alleviate his anxiety.  The vet Friday suggested 3mg of Melatonin twice a day.  She said to call her today and let her know how that went.  

I'm also going to try to crate-train him, and possibly even put the crate in the truck bed , and secure it in position; black out the windows and cover the crate, so that he can't look out.  

It's difficult to crate-train an adult dog that does not like them, but I've been working on that as well.  

So, the good news is that I have a workable temporary solution.  

Thanks for all of the suggestions, from everyone.  

Pat

 

[TrainChaser]

I would hold off on the crate training while you're trying something else, for two reasons:
1. You won't know which works and which doesn't, if you do two or more things at once.
2. Forcing him into a crate that he isn't used to or doesn't like could raise his stress level even more. You sure don't need any more problems!

Good luck!

 

[SoulRaven]

I've been actually trying to get him to voluntarily enter it and possibly enjoy it. I've actually lain in the crate and given him peanut butter when he comes in! But I see no sense in all in trying to force him into it. Especially now that I've got a workaround that will do until I can find something better.

Thanks, TC.

 

[#1BonBonQueen]

A long time ago, I read somewhere you should always strap your dogs down, with the seat belts, so they can't be allowed to roam the vehicles, that will supposedly keep them from stressing out. They can't roam and are in one spot, so even if their eye sight is getting worse as they age, it keeps them feeling more secure since they can't just go spastic by roaming all over the vehicle. They make a triangle thingy, that you put on the pets harness, and it hooks to the seat belt to allow the pet to lay down, or sit up, but not allow them to just go from window to window, which from what I have read is what makes them get more and more hyper.
Good Luck!!!
Sharon

 

[SoulRaven]

A long time ago, I read somewhere you should always strap your dogs down, with the seat belts, so they can't be allowed to roam the vehicles, that will supposedly keep them from stressing out.  They can't roam and are in one spot, so even if their eye sight is getting worse as they age, it keeps them feeling more secure since they can't just go spastic by roaming all over the vehicle.  They make a triangle thingy, that you put on the pets harness, and it hooks to the seat belt to allow the pet to lay down, or sit up, but not allow them to just go from window to window, which from what I have read is what makes them get more and more hyper.
Good Luck!!!
Sharon

Thanks for the suggestion, but I tried that years ago... Taz was not happy with it. 

The situation is currently no longer an issue.  He is quite happy when we're in town being able to roam... and when we're on roads he did not like before this weekend, I put the console up, and he's quite happy like that.   

Thanks again, 

Pat

 

[SoulRaven]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I tried that years ago... Taz was not happy with it. 

The situation is currently no longer an issue.  He is quite happy when we're in town being able to roam... and when we're on roads he did not like before this weekend, I put the console up, and he's quite happy like that.   

Thanks again, 

Pat

I was wrong... this did not solve the problem... HOWEVER, the following is good news:

Current status

Taz, Lacy and I have been living on the road for about 3 weeks now.  We spent the last 2 weeks or so at the RTR event.  
I have yet found nothing to "fix" Taz, he still freaks out when I'm driving the truck.  However, he LOVES being at the camp; visiting with the other people and dogs, going for really long walks everyday, and just hanging out at the camp. 

After 3 weeks on the road, I realized that he is very unlikely to stroke out or have a heart attack (which was my main concern).  So, as stargazer (I believe) suggested, I've come to just ignore his anxious behavior.  As a result of that, I  believe I have noticed a SLIGHT decrease in his anxiety.  

We all 3 love this lifestyle, and are very thankful for all of the help on this and other questions I've asked.  I'm quite sure I've found my new home.  

Pat 
aka Wanderin.Pat

 

[Goshawk]

Ignoring animals when they do wrong, after correcting for significant error, seems to work well. It's dog whisperer technique, I think


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[TrainChaser]

Dogs and cats are more creatures of habit than we probably believe. Like people, some dogs are anxious for the Next New Adventure, and others tend to be more 'home bodies' and need to get used to the idea.

Dogs also read our stress scents. The more the owner relaxes in a new environment, the more the dog is likely to do the same.