weird OCCASIONAL panic problem

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Yes that is true about anxious doggies...won't take treats... but I think you can figure this out...

My rescue about shook out of his skin on the way home when I first got him...big trucks going by. Now he looks at them and thinks about it I think but I don't linger next to them driving anyway... too many run retreads.
 
You know, I'm a reasonably intelligent guy, but I DO feel pretty dumb sometimes... 

Yeah, I'm retired, what's the rush!!!!  :huh:  I CAN take back roads and the longer way around.  

The one advantage that Interstate has over side roads is cell-phone access.  In most spots, you have decent to very good cell-phone access on the Interstate.  As someone who blew an engine in my Jeep in 2012, in the backcountry... I do appreciate that ability to call AAA.  

On the other hand, most of the spots I will want to "camp" at will have spotty cell-phone coverage at best.  And I have started on the Ham Radio path (got my Technician license and a Baofeng UV-5R)  ... 

So, again to rvpopeye, really good point.  Thanks. 

 " Take the long way home"  Supertramp
 
Pnolans:  "In fact, your comment on borderline epileptic is something Ive considered.  I was telling the most recent vet that it seems almost like "pre-seizure" symptoms ( I don't know if I made up a term or not).   I had a dog once that started having epileptic seizures, and the "treatment" was one of the barbituates...   What is so confusing to me is that when we're on a road that he doesn't like, as soon as we pull off, he calms right down...  Sometimes, very rarely, he will stay nervous for a minute or 2.  This is often solved by just pulling off the road and finding a place that both dogs can just run around."

As Dr.Jean mentioned, he might be picking up a stress odor from you.  Has the dog ever ridden on the freeway in another person's car w/o this panic attack?  Specifically without you in the car.

Some human epiletics can have seizures set off by flashing lights and other 'sensory overloads'.  I wonder if there is a sound or something that is setting him off?  Dogs can hear frequency ranges about twice that of humans, and can hear four times as well.

It might be worth asking your vet to prescribe a month's worth of epilepsy medication, and noticing if it makes any difference.  If it does change things, you will also be aware that the dog's condition might advance to obvious epilepsy in the future.
 
Pnolans wrote, "Over the last 5 years or so, he has developed a fear of riding on the Interstate." sounds like me. highdesertranger
 
TrainChaser said:
Pnolans:  "In fact, your comment on borderline epileptic is something Ive considered.  I was telling the most recent vet that it seems almost like "pre-seizure" symptoms ( I don't know if I made up a term or not).   I had a dog once that started having epileptic seizures, and the "treatment" was one of the barbituates...   What is so confusing to me is that when we're on a road that he doesn't like, as soon as we pull off, he calms right down...  Sometimes, very rarely, he will stay nervous for a minute or 2.  This is often solved by just pulling off the road and finding a place that both dogs can just run around."

As Dr.Jean mentioned, he might be picking up a stress odor from you.  Has the dog ever ridden on the freeway in another person's car w/o this panic attack?  Specifically without you in the car.

Some human epiletics can have seizures set off by flashing lights and other 'sensory overloads'.  I wonder if there is a sound or something that is setting him off?  Dogs can hear frequency ranges about twice that of humans, and can hear four times as well.

It might be worth asking your vet to prescribe a month's worth of epilepsy medication, and noticing if it makes any difference.  If it does change things, you will also be aware that the dog's condition might advance to obvious epilepsy in the future.

Trainchaser:  I have not tried having someone else drive ... that's a good thought... as well as sensory overload.  And asking for a barb prescription just to try it out. 

Yesterday, we went for a drive to a hiking place we haven't been to for a while... I have always rode I25 up to the exit. So, taking the advice of you folks, I drove on the side road instead of I25.  He was fine until we came to the stop light that crossed the interstate.  He got a little nervous, and stayed that way till we got to the trailhead.  Then I let the dogs run around and burn off some energy.   Once Taz, the "problem" dog, calmed down a little, and gave him a treat.  He was still upset some , but he ate 2 out of the 3.  I gave him a chance to calm down.  The drive back was much better!  I count that as some kind of success. 

A big part of this may just be doing some "classic conditioning" rides just to try to get some calm behavior and reward it.  

I think my emotional state is a big part of it.  I hate driving around here..  yesterday's drive just crystallized this for me.  Taking the side roads for any distance... grannies in Escalades riding my butt when I'm in the right lane and they can pass me!  LONG stoplights , slow people in front of me, and speed-racers behind me.  Yes, I know, I should just ignore them..

The funny thing for Taz, is that when I'm driving thru town, no matter how tense I am, he doesn't mind.  

Anyway, thanks a lot. You folks have all provided helpful insights.  I will use a combination of all of them. 

Pat
 
We took a giant step back today.  I took Taz and Lacy for a ride to use back roads to Texas.  He had the most violent reaction I've seen yet.   
As soon as we stopped at a stoplight that would lead us to a 2 lane country road heading to Eastern Colorado, he started shaking and salivating and giving litle short cries.  I got about a mile down that road before I could pull over.  Put them on a leash, walked on the side of the road, and sat for a while.  He seemed to calm down after about 5 minutes.  As soon as we got back into the car, he started again.  I turned around and headed back to town.  He calmed down a lot once we got into town, but was still shaking.  
I went to the Vet and made an appt... earliest is Friday.  Right now, it looks like I can't leave town ... sheez.  I'm in this apartment until Jan 1... and then have to find another place.  I WAS going to go on "driveabout"... that's looking iffy at this time. 
Anyway, just providing a status report... I'm feeling pretty down right now.  I'm not really asking for feedback at this time... just thoughts and prayers for some solution. 
Thanks for all the help you folks have given so far. 
Pat
 
Here's hoping for some conclusive easy to fix result. My best wishes to you and Taz. I feel for you. My dogs are/were family. Not just a pet. It's hard to have a problem with no solution in sight.
 
Oh gosh, my dog is like this. She literally jumped on top of my head and shoulders the first time I took her onto an interstate. I am sure we were a sight to see! I think it was a truck which scared her! She is a very smart dog. She is calm in the car but only if we are going to the dog park or up to the lake and she knows the routes. She gets nervous when there is any deviation from the standard route. In my case though, xanax has helped a LOT and she has been able to make two trips from Michigan to California and Washington without jumping on my head again, whew. I hope you can find a solution that works just as well.

I think I may need a babygate for my future van though as she likes to try to climb under my feet when she is scared which is anytime a truck passes.
 
Maybe he has seen how you drive on the highway and is sure you will get the both of you killed.
Maybe the road vibration?
 
Danny might have an idea there........
How about the pitch the tires on the pavement make at different speeds?
 
rvpopeye said:
Danny might have an idea there........
How about the pitch the tires on the pavement make at different speeds?

I mentioned in my latest post and the original one, that it started on the Interstate, but has devolved into many other roads.  Right now, I'm feeling pretty devastated, because today's experiment ended disastrously.  I was taking a 2 lane, backcountry road out of town , and his reaction, which started AT THE STOPLIGHT, was the worst I've seen with him yet.  I immediately turned around and headed back to town.   I was nowhere near an interstate, and I was going slowly.  This is absolutely a visually-oriented trigger.  
I may have to give up on being a full-time vandweller while Taz is alive.  (or find some extremely different approach)  He seems to not want me to leave Colorado Springs!!!  It sounds crazy, but there is currently no road heading out of town , Interstate or otherwise, that he doesn't get freaked out on. 

I have an appointment with his vet on Friday to discuss treating this like epilepsy... I've had 2 dogs with that, and I'm afraid that if I keep driving when he's having a panic attack he'll have a seizure.  The point I'm trying to make is that this getting worse, even tho it looked hopeful yesterday evening.
 
we'll wait for a report on friday , fingers crossed for luck
 
One thing I haven't mentioned is that, like slynne's dog, Taz is very smart.  He likes to console-surf, and while doing that, he watches my feet.  When I'm driving my Jeep, when he sees me push in the clutch , he braces himself.  When he sees my foot move toward the brake, he gets into the backseat and leans into the seat.  

I'm mentioning this to reinforce the point I'm trying to make about him being visually-oriented.  My other dog, Lacy, just leans when she feels the force.  Taz leans into the turns in ANTICIPATION of the turn.  

most of my town is a like a racetrack ... it's the roads in town that are really scarier!  People here are nutz! And he seems to enjoy drving in town just fine!
 
Really sounds like he doesn't like the way you drive. Hanging on to the steering wheel you don't feel the abrupt movements. Being loose he is being tossed around. He knows you popping the clutch is going to send him flying. Same with the brake. A harness or carrier that holds him in place may help.

Ever ride as a passenger with someone that made you car sick? I bet the driver felt just fine.
 
DannyB1954 said:
Really sounds like he doesn't like the way you drive. Hanging on to the steering wheel you don't feel the abrupt movements. Being loose he is being tossed around. He knows you popping the clutch is going to send him flying. Same with the brake.

I don't want to be rude, but you're not listening.  One , I don't "pop the clutch", I PUSH in the clutch to change gears. Two, When I drive around town , he's fine.  He loves to go for a ride.  He jumps into the car and is happy to go.   When I drive on the roads he doesn't like, I'm driving so carefully and easily he doesn't HAVE to prep.  

Masterplumber has met my dogs and me. Maybe he might add something here.

In the past, I just left both dogs at home if when I drove places he doesn't like to ride on.   But after Jan 1, I'll be driving my home.  Or that has been the plan.   I may have to postpone until I solve this... right now, my heart is broke. no kidding.  Seriously. 

And honestly, I am saying that I'm pretty devastated by this... and it seems to me that you're saying it's my fault.   With all due respect, please stop posting "he doesn't like the way you drive"... you've posted that at least twice.  You're not in the car with me.   You have not observed the behavior.  So, please stop.
 
UPDATE:
After some more thought, I added this:  Taz does not do anything he doesn't want to do.  He doesn't like water (swimming) .  I've tried coaxing him in before... he won't go.  I've jumped in the water, and tried to get him to follow.  He won't join me. 
He doesn't like baths... this is something I have to  force him to do.  
He doesn't like crates.  Right now, I'm trying to entice him... I have a softcrate set up in the living room.  with the door open. Everyday I give him a treat in the back of the crate, and he will get the treat and leave.   I'm working on that.  He doesn't like going to the vet.  Well, I just have to ignore his whining.   He doesn't like being restrained... I tried that with a seat belt harness when I first got him 7 years ago... He does not like it.  I don't force him to wear it. He resists strenuously things he doesn't like. 
He jumps into the car with his tail wagging and his tongue out when I take him and Lacy with me.  He clearly likes going for rides, and that's with me driving.  He does NOT like roads going out of town.   Some memory of before I rescued him?  Don't know.  I got him from a rescue shelter, he was about 2 years old then.  The woman who ran the rescue had no information regarding him.  So, with a rescue dog, you never know what kind of treatment they've received.   I used to have a Jeep Wrangler, he clearly love riding in IT, especially with the top off!  

I've had dogs since I was 21, I'm now 64.  I have helped solved many a problem with dogs behavior.  I had a dog once that had been hit by a car in front of my house... he had a TBI... he would only walk in circles.  The vet said I should put him down. I kept working with him until he could run after me, following me, in a straight line.  Everyone thought I was wasting my time.  I kept at it.   

Thanks

Pat

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Right now, I'm stuck here in Colorado Springs until I can solve this behavior problem.  There's not one road leaving town that he doesn't panic on.  The irony would be funny if it didn't mean I would have to give up on my idea of full-time vandwelling. Heck, if I could get to Slab City somehow, at this point, I'd just stay there.   I love the town and the state, but I've gotten tired of living here in the winter.  Especially when I'll be living on Social Security come Jan 1.
 
Pat, my heart goes out to you. Keep giving us updates as things change.
 
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