weird OCCASIONAL panic problem

[SoulRaven]

I've had my dog Taz for about 7 years.  When I first got him, he loved riding in the car.  Or at least, he sure seemed to.  He was always excited and seemed to enjoy it. 

Over the last 5 years or so, he has developed a fear of riding on the Interstate.  This has started to include 4 lane roads, and even the occasional 2 lane road.   He starts to tremble so much it's more like shaking than trembling.  He runs from window to window to the console, and repeats that until I pull off and let him run around.  He's even pooped in the back seat before.  

Yes, I've tried a Thundershirt (many people ask me that..  :shy: )  My vet prescribed some tranqs for him that were so strong, he could barely walk... but he was still able to panic.  Another vet prescribed *** oil made from hemp.  I gave him the suggested dosage for a week.  Not better.  I've tried other herbal remedies.  No improvement. 

One vet suggested getting him to ride in the back of the pickup in a crate.  Problem is, he doesn't like crates.  So, I would need to "crate train" him.  Which I'm willing to do.  I even bought a soft crate with sides I can lower.  The vet's idea is that it seems to be visually triggered.  I'm willing to try it.  
I don't plan on driving a lot, once I start traveling.  But occasionally, I will be driving some distance.  Since I live in Colorado, and plan to start full-time in January, I'll be heading south.  hahah.  

I'm also looking for a dog behavioral specialist... perhaps they will be able to help.  

I don't have the option of leaving him at home, I will be driving my home.  I live in Colorado Springs.  If anyone has any ideas , please share them.  He and my other dog Lacy are family, and I would no more consider finding another home for them than I would "getting rid" of one of my children.   Taz has especially imprinted on me... I've been told that he's always restless and seems unhappy on those few occasions where I do leave him at home. 

Thanks in advance for any help,
Pat

 

[SoulRaven]

In addition, I'd like to add that driving around town on residential roads is something he still enjoys and is NOT afraid of.

 

[RVTravel]

I wonder about road noise at highway speeds. Has your vehicle changed since the days when he tolerated the highway?

 

[SoulRaven]

I wonder about road noise at highway speeds. Has your vehicle changed since the days when he tolerated the highway?

Good thought. when I got him, I had a 98 Jeep Cherokee XJ, which I still have .  I now have also have an F150 ... which is what I plan to driveabout in ... same behavior , both vehicles.  

I can be riding BESIDE the Interstate on a frontage road, and he's ok.   As soon as I approach an on-ramp, he starts shaking... even at lower highway speeds.  

Also, I've experimented with going slower ... makes no difference... 


He has always been really smart.  He will watch my feet to see if I'm about to hit the brakes.  When he sees me push in the clutch on my Jeep, he leans into the bench seat in the back for stability.   So, I believe he is observing a move to the Interstate, and anticipates fear.  

I've been a "dog friend" for more than 40 years.  This is the toughest problem I've ever experienced with a dog.

 

[squatting dog2]

Good thought. when I got him, I had a 98 Jeep Cherokee XJ, which I still have .  I now have also have an F150 ... which is what I plan to driveabout in ... same behavior , both vehicles.  

I can be riding BESIDE the Interstate on a frontage road, and he's ok.   As soon as I approach an on-ramp, he starts shaking... even at lower highway speeds.  

Also, I've experimented with going slower ... makes no difference... 


He has always been really smart.  He will watch my feet to see if I'm about to hit the brakes.  When he sees me push in the clutch on my Jeep, he leans into the bench seat in the back for stability.   So, I believe he is observing a move to the Interstate, and anticipates fear.  

I've been a "dog friend" for more than 40 years.  This is the toughest problem I've ever experienced with a dog.

As my furr babies age, their eye site and other senses start to go, and I suspect that has something to do with being spazzy while driving in certain environments. For instance,  I had one little guy who absolutely hated interstates, but was perfectly happy on slow trips around town.

 

[SoulRaven]

As my furr babies age, their eye site and other senses start to go, and I suspect that has something to do with being spazzy while driving in certain environments. For instance,  I had one little guy who absolutely hated interstates, but was perfectly happy on slow trips around town.

So, did you just avoid interstates? or did you have success with changing behavior?

Thanks,

Pat

 

[DrJean]

Just a thought... maybe YOU are more stressed with the additional traffic and they pick up on that? Whereas you are more calm on the other trips about town?

 

[SoulRaven]

Just a thought... maybe YOU are more stressed with the additional traffic and they pick up on that?  Whereas you are more calm on the other trips about town?

That IS a good thought... I may be tensing some in anticipation of HIM panicking.. that is a possibility... although, I have to say that he's still surprising me on the roads he DOES stress out on.   And I can't help but ask why doesn't my other dog tense up?  She is just calm and happy.   Different dogs... 

In the end, I may have to just let him get stressed, stop about once every hour and let him play ... try soothing him ...play relaxing music (tho that may put ME to sleep).   Also, I'm curious as to how he will react when I get away from Colorado?  Maybe on new roads and new scenery, he will relax... 

I'm stuck between 2 rocks... I AM going on driveabout, and I am NOT going to "find a new home" for him.  I'm his human, and he's my dog.   We're family/pack.

 

[DrJean]

Okay so work on making it a fun experience for the both of you... his part might require treats though

 

[towhee]

I would start with classical conditioning. Get on the freeway, pull over to the shoulder, wait for a hint of relaxation and shower him with yummy treats. Take a book and just sit there long enough to catch him getting calmer. Then treats.

Try that and report back?

If you can get that small moment of less anxiety you can build on it. And get to a dog who thinks freeways are wonderful.

Cheese whiz in a can is easy to dispense.

I had success with a very reactive dog doing that.

 

[squatting dog2]

Avoided Interstates as much as possible. Wasn't that difficult as I've never had much use for Interstates. There is a lot of America out there to see, and interstate's and off ramps aren't going to show it.   :shy:

 

[SoulRaven]

I would start with classical conditioning. Get on the freeway, pull over to the shoulder, wait for a hint of relaxation and shower him with yummy treats. Take a book and just sit there long enough to catch him getting calmer. Then treats.

Try that and report back?  

If you can get that small moment of less anxiety you can build on it. And get to a dog who thinks freeways are wonderful.

Cheese whiz in a can is easy to dispense.

I had success with a very reactive dog doing that.

For the last 5 years, I've largely just left him at home when I knew I was going on the interstate.  I won't have that option starting in Jan ... 
When he's gotten panicked in the past, he's not interested in treats.  However, perhaps I've waited too long before I try to deal with it.   And I've never tried Cheese Whiz.     that could be just the thing.

 

[Belinda2]

I have rescued 1 dog at a time and kept them until they died many times in my life. I would get the worst abused dogs in the country and go states away to get them.
I even trained one to be a working dog who had a top secret security clearance.
Here is what would I suggest:
Pick the proper dog. This is one who can be trained. When picking an adult or a puppy refer to the Super Puppy Test in the Super Puppy Book. It will save your sanity.
Do not feed the dog before a trip. Only allow very small amounts of food and water, if necessary, before the trip.
Take regular trips. Start with little places locally. Do the "whole routine" each time: car trip with pads on the back car seat and the dog seat belted in with no cage, leash for walking, have the dog meet 2-3 strangers, one at a time, allow the strangers to pet the dog while you talk to the dog and hold his muzzle.
If the dog does a superior job, he gets 1 scoop of vanilla ice cream.
Spend time, time, time, time with the dog with love and reinforcement.
Eat with the dog. Sleep near the dog.
When he masters all the above, THEN and only then, bathe him, if that would have scared him.

I hope this helps,
Belinda2

 

[SoulRaven]

I have rescued 1 dog at a time and kept them until they died many times in my life. I would get the worst abused dogs in the country and go states away to get them.
I even trained one to be a working dog who had a top secret security clearance.
Here is what would I suggest:
Pick the proper dog. This is one who can be trained. When picking an adult or a puppy refer to the Super Puppy Test in the Super Puppy Book. It will save your sanity.
Do not feed the dog before a trip. Only allow very small amounts of food and water, if necessary, before the trip.
Take regular trips. Start with little places locally. Do the "whole routine" each time: car trip with pads on the back car seat and the dog seat belted in with no cage, leash for walking, have the dog meet 2-3 strangers, one at a time, allow the strangers to pet the dog while you talk to the dog and hold his muzzle.
If the dog does a superior job, he gets 1 scoop of vanilla ice cream.
Spend time, time, time, time with the dog with love and reinforcement.
Eat with the dog. Sleep near the dog.
When he masters all the above, THEN and only then, bathe him, if that would have scared him.

I hope this helps,
Belinda2

Thanks, these are all good ideas.  On the other hand, they have little relevance to my situation!    
I already have my dog, and have for roughly 7 years.  He's already highly socialized.  Both of my dogs are so well-behaved and friendly that I can park my car, go shopping, leave the windows all the way down, and they stay in the car.  People have gone out of their way to tell me how well-behaved they are.  

Until 3 weeks ago, I worked from home (I got laid-off), am single.  My dogs have gone everywhere with me except when I go to a movie, for example.  That would be too long for them to sit in the car.    So, I spend most of my time with my dogs... I don't have much of a social life, unless you consider being the Alpha male in a pack of 2 dogs and 2 humans (my son is currently living with me) a social life.. It works ok for me.  The dogs and I often go hiking together, and they love it.

and my problem has nothing to do with bathing... once again:     

I do however really appreciate your willingness to offer assistance.  Thanks very much.

 

[rvpopeye]

The quick answer seems to just travel on back roads , skip the interstates and other highway type roads and enjoy the trip. Stop as often as you want. See lots of cool things. I think you and the dogs will enjoy this way of travel.

All the best stuff is on the blue roads.......(color of roads on maps).

 

[TrainChaser]

What breed of dog is your little guy, and how old is he?

I'm thinking along the same lines as RVTravel... Do you have 'beefy' tires on your truck?

Do you happen to have a friend who has a regular CAR with regular tires who would be willing to take the both of you for a ride on the interstate? If he's okay with that, would you know someone who has a truck w/low-profile tires?

There are different kinds of tranquilizers. Some vets get 'hooked' on prescribing just one or two. Try others. Try some antihistamines that have sedative effects ("night-time" only), like Benedryl (very safe for dogs - 1 to 2 mg per pound of dog body weight).

My other thought is if he might be borderline epileptic. I don't know how this would be diagnosed, except maybe by treating him for epilepsy and seeing if there's any difference.

 

[SoulRaven]

The quick answer seems to just travel on back roads , skip the interstates and other highway type roads and enjoy the trip. Stop as often as you want. See lots of cool things. I think you and the dogs will enjoy this way of travel.

All the best stuff is on the blue roads.......(color of roads on maps).

That may be the solution... indeed.  On the other hand, when my cargo trailer is ready to be picked up, we have to drive to Waco , Tx to get it.   You do have a really good point , tho. 
Thanks,

 

[SoulRaven]

What breed of dog is your little guy, and how old is he?

I'm thinking along the same lines as RVTravel...  Do you have 'beefy' tires on your truck?

Do you happen to have a friend who has a regular CAR with regular tires who would be willing to take the both of you for a ride on the interstate?  If he's okay with that, would you know someone who has a truck w/low-profile tires?

There are different kinds of tranquilizers.  Some vets get 'hooked' on prescribing just one or two.  Try others.  Try some antihistamines that have sedative effects ("night-time" only), like Benedryl (very safe for dogs - 1 to 2 mg per pound of dog body weight).

My other thought is if he might be borderline epileptic.  I don't know how this would be diagnosed, except maybe by treating him for epilepsy and seeing if there's any difference.

Well, this whole behavior seemed to start with my Jeep , and yes, I have BFG TA KO tires.  However, since that time, I've had both a Nissan Altima and a Subaru Outback.   He was scared of Interstate with both of them. 

I have also tried Benadryl.. 

In fact, your comment on borderline epileptic is something Ive considered.  I was telling the most recent vet that it seems almost like "pre-seizure" symptoms ( I don't know if I made up a term or not).   I had a dog once that started having epileptic seizures, and the "treatment" was one of the barbituates... 

What is so confusing to me is that when we're on a road that he doesn't like, as soon as we pull off, he calms right down. 
Sometimes, very rarely, he will stay nervous for a minute or 2.  This is often solved by just pulling off the road and finding a place that both dogs can just run around. 

Thanks very much... oh, Taz is a German Shepherd/ Australian cattle dog mix.  I've had him 7 years.  He's a rescue , so I don't know his exact age.  But he's still pretty spry ... I'm thinking he's about 9.

 

[rvpopeye]

I have done extensive travel in Texas , the best of which was on the back roads.
I have a thread called Detours with lots more about this...

 

[SoulRaven]

I have done extensive travel in Texas , the best of which was on the back roads.
I have a thread called Detours with lots more about this...

Alrighty then, I'll check it out!  I love this forum!