Thoughts on Preparing for Winter.

[Milk Hauler]

I'm gathing funds for a 7x14 Cargo Trailer build. If $1600 fell out of the sky, I'd heat the CT with this. I have access to all the Juniper wood I can cut. (Under Permit)

This stove is
heirloom quality.


This is good stuff too.

 

[Milk Hauler]

It says something about Marine use. Sternwake will prolly chim in. Lol! [emoji12]

 

[Gary68]

It says something about Marine use. Sternwake will prolly chim in. Lol! [emoji12]

[video=youtube]



http://www.fatscostoves.com/ around $300 or so

 

[akrvbob]

Thoughts on preparing for winter.

    One thing I know for 100% certain: I refuse to freeze. During the months of December, January and February it can easily hover around 1 or 2 degrees Celcius, often go to -5 C and sometimes go as much as -10 C where I live in Vancouver BC. 

This is the Original Post (#1) on this thread, this whole thread is about hovering  around freezing and sometimes dropping well below. After the winter the East coast had had the last two years it's a very common occurrence for the large number of the members of the group.  

Building a wall is the best and if you are somewhere it is very cold it's something you should do. But if you aren't then a combination of a space blanket to be a reflective and vapor barrier, a thrift store sleeping bag, an old army wool blanket and then a heavy mill sheet of plastic will keep you very warm and greatly reduce the amount of moisture passing up front. Reflectix works but it is hard to use as a pass-through because it's stiff. I've tried it and gave up because it was a pain in the but. The space 
blanket works very well! I've taped one around the doors of several vehicles I lived in. 

One way to make the pass-through easy is to get through to cut them all by 2/3 and 1/3 and when you hang them alternate the short sides and make them overlap by about a foot. Leave them long and you can get them arranged so they overlap really well and tightly, then put weight on the bottom so they stay in place.. You can use Velcro tape to make tabs on the Space blanket and vapor barrier so they stay together. Get a real Space Blanket, not one of the emergency ones, they will just fall apart. (Taping a space blanket around your back door will also really help with drafts. If you have to use it often, then Velcro tape will work).

The R-Value of this wall will be about 10 times more than all that glass in the cab.

It won't be perfect, but you don't need it to be. You will be dramatically warmer, it will greatly decrease the amount of moisture getting into the cab and it will cost just a few dollars. 
Bob

 

[One Awesome Inch]

A dividing wall is optimal and is what I have done, but as Bob points out there are options as well. The partition that I have separating the front cab from the living quarters is 3 inches thick and two of those inches is rigid foamboard. The wall vastly effects temps in the van. When its sunny and hot outside, the front cab is boiling, but the living quarters is not. When I sleep in the back and get up in the morning its probably 5 degrees warmer in the back just from my body heat and the insulation I have. The front is noticeably cooler. This is with a 5 inch hole behind my rear license plate and my fantastic fan roof vent cracked about a half inch for air circulation.

Before the arrival of winter I plan to put strips of 2 inch by 1/4 inch wood along the partition door in combination with some weather stripping to seal up the 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap around the door frame. This will keep it warmer in the living area. I also plan to put an adjustable closure on the rear license plate hole. Then I will be able to control just how much air I want coming in. I also plan to build a door on my rear wall (in front of the rear doors). This will have me totally encased in a rectangular box that is well insulated.

Almost There is correct, the temps here are usually tolerable, but there were times last winter when I was in the van and doing the build that I was uncomfortably cold. It was probably around 0 to 1C outside.

To me, this isn't about being warm enough to survive. This is about making the van warm and comfortable in winter to achieve a decent standard of living that I desire.

 

[Jana]

Those little marine stoves are adorable, and they even come in colors. They produce dry heat, which takes care of the condensation problem, but everyone I know who heats with wood says they have dust everywhere all the time. I guess there is no perfect solution.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Well, the "perfect" solution is the Dickenson Newport P9000. Its a full vented propane fireplace heater. All you get is heat... all moisture is vented outside. Only problem is that its around $900cdn.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Well, the "perfect" solution is the Dickenson Newport P9000. Its a full vented propane fireplace heater. All you get is heat... all moisture is vented outside. Only problem is that its around $900cdn.

I have the Dickenson P12000 and it is a great heater however it is not without some issues, one it is not that cheap to run and the fan is a bit noisy however you don't have to use the fan if the stove is on low. If you were heating a space 24/7 I would suggest the Dickenson diesel model, I had one on my sailboat, cheaper to run but also with it;s issues, it is slower to heat up, harder to light,  smokes a bit out the chimney while warming up, has a stronger smell and leaves a bit of a diesel smell inside when lighting it, requires a bit more maintenance, so if you are coming and going from your van, wanting to heat up fast then the propane model is a better choice, but expect to go through  20bls of propane a week, if you are parked and heating all the time then deisel is a good option. Dickensons are great but maybe perfect would be a Dickenson heater with a thermostat. I have a  thermostatically controlled vented propane heater in my popup Dodge Caravan but have no idea how efficient it is as I  have not used it much. I have a feeling it is pretty efficient but not near as pretty as the Dickenson.

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Brian and I like this model for our RV (it's approved for RV use). I'm allergic to propane, kerosene, and all such fuels (although our fridge works on propane, but that's outside the RV and I can't smell it at all), so wood is good for me!

Here's a pic. of the Jotul F370:

http://www.northweststoves.ca/images/pdf/BRFULL Sept 2014.pdf


And here's a video of how it works:

[video=youtube]

It's a little pricey, I suppose, but we do live in Canada for six months of the year, and we view it as we view solar - it's a one-time buy.

Blessings to all,


Jesse.

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

A couple of things struck me as I read through these threads. It doesn't matter what the temperature is if the humidity factor is high. In Vancouver, where it rains for nine months of the year, and in Squamish, an hour's drive north of Vancouver (where I'm certain that GOD must have practiced for the flood!!! ) where it rains nearly all year, it's impossible to keep a vehicle, and especially an RV, dry unless you're heating with dry heat 24/7 for nine months of the year.

When Brian and I lived in Yukon Territory, the temps dropped down to -50F, but that was a dry cold and very different from -30F in Bralorne (high humidity clime). Even in our house in the Yukon, WITH a wood stove going 24/7, we'd wake up every morning to frost climbing the walls (all of 'em) to a height of circa 4', but that aside, we weren't uncomfortable in the house and we didn't have to overdress either.

Humans seem to adapt to temperature variances quickly enough (I know I did when we moved up north to Yukon Territory), but RVs and houses don't fare too well at all.

The worst environmental condition for mobile living, in my opinion, is the cold and very wet scenario we have in coastal BC. Brian and I and our youngest daughter lived one winter in a huge rented RV in Whistler (don't remember the size, but it was more than 40') and despite 3 x 1,500 watt heaters, it was freezing and wet (not just damp). I don't think we took our snow suits off except to pee and visit the local rec center to swim and thoroughly wash once a week.

Hope this makes sense.


Jesse.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Humidity IS the big question mark for me.  As Jesse indicates it rains alot here in Vancouver and humidity is often 85% and above. I bet 85% is the average. The rain starts end of October, alot of our Halloweens are rainy, and doesnt really let up until end of March/April. Now its not raining all the time, but if its not raining its cloudy and we rarely get a stretch of 3 days of sunlight in those months.

Here is what I am doing to rise to the challenge of humidity, living in a van, in Vancouver:


1. Insulate with 2 inches of rigid foam board in all walls and roof and utilize a vapor barrier so I can have the propane heater running less
2. Use a low BTU heater. My Wave 3 on low is 1600BTUs. The by product of burning propane is H20 so I have calculated that the production of 1600BTUs will put 2 ounces of water into the air... I think that is per hour.
3. Attach a computer fan to a 8 inch sealed, rectangular box (not sure on dimensions as I still need to build it) and have a computer fan drawing air out of the van and thru a 5 inch hole I made behind the rear license plate.
4. Crack open my Fantastic Fan roof vent for additional airflow
5. Use a non-powered dehumidifier that uses calcium chloride.
6. Hang damp towels, cloths etc in the front cab of the van... with a partition wall dividing it off from the living area.
7. Avoid carpet and minimize cloth material (besides bedding) as they are more likely to absorb moisture.
8. Considering getting a low draw powered dehumidifier

If anyone has any other ideas to reduce humidity please let me know.

If all that fails and I notice mold develop, I will buy the fully vented Dickenson Newport P9000. However, as Kurbmaster points out, they are 3000BTUs on low, which will just about double my propane costs. Still they do provide dry heat so I will spend the money if necessary.

Hopefully, the above steps will drastically minimize the humidity. I grew up in Vancouver so I am used to it. My main concern is mold.

 

[akrvbob]

Staying warm in a van in a very humid area is tough but I think that's a very good plan.

I only use my propane stove for heat and I think you could also as well insulated as you are. But they put out a lot of moisture also. I've been told, but don't know it for sure, that if you put a clay pot on top of the stove it will absorb the moisture. It might be worth a try.

The good news is I don't think you will have to leave it on for long. During normal winter temperatures maybe only a few hours a day.
Bob

 

[SoulRaven]

I believe to remove moisture your vents need to be up high.

Your license plate vent might only remove moisture lower than it is.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I lived on a sailboat for a winter in Vancouver and for four years after that lived a board 8 months of the year, I had an electric ceramic heater,( dry heat ) and a diesel Dickenson heater( also dry heat) still there were many nights that the boat was warm but my back was cold, reason I moved off from Nov to March there was no insulation in the boat so having insulated your van is a plus but I wonder about having a non vented propane heater in an already damp area even though I don't doubt some people managed like Bob says he lived in his box truck with a non vented heater in Anchorage which I would think is pretty damp as well. Maybe the insulation makes all the difference I had a lot of condensation on the hull of my boat and living by the water wouldn' t help things either. I still think the best way to stay comfortable is by drying the air either with electricity, wood or vented propane.

 

[highdesertranger]

three great tips from the kurbmaster for dealing with high humidity conditions. electricity, wood, or vented propane. I would like to add any type of vented heater weather propane, diesel, kero, or whatever. highdesertranger

 

[One Awesome Inch]

This winter will be most illuminating. ☺

 

[SoulRaven]

The secret to using non vented heaters is you need lots of ventilation both up high, and down low to create that upward flow of air. Then you need enough heat to compensate for the ventilation, and provide enough heat to evaporate any moisture which is either being produced or has been accumulated. Insulation only complicates and compounds your problems.

Unfortunately, I have seen good vans which got insulated turn into a rusty moldy mess under the insulation in only a year or so. That's the reason that almost every insulated van you see will have rusty rocker panels, or freshly repaired ones just prior to sale.

My moisture problems totally disappeared when I switched from propane to kerosene, and my costs went way down as well. Part of the moisture solution could be attributed to the increased ventilation required to keep it from getting too hot using the kerosene heater.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Yes Off grid 24 7 we know about your bias against insulation. However, in this regard, your opinion is the anomaly. I'm going with the vast majority.

I do agree that ventilation is important and it has been addressed.

Ultimately, experience is the best teacher and I will be learning all that I can this winter.

 

[SoulRaven]

Yes Off grid 24 7 we know about your bias against insulation. However,  in this regard, your opinion is the anomaly. I'm going with the vast majority.

I do agree that ventilation is important and it has been addressed.

Ultimately,  experience is the best teacher and I will be learning all that I can this winter.

You really need to attend some camp outs or rallies, where you will find that in actuality I am in the vast majority.  Online opinions on many things vary drastically from what people out here are actually doing.  Very few of the most experienced are actually online.

Here's a link to a site with some old timers on it.

http://www.hipforums.com/forum/topic/458791-mobile-traveler-since-1961/?hl=camping

Not huge, but Camper_Bob is obviously very knowledgeable.

Something you may or may not know, is that very few people, even if they know the correct answers, are unwilling to stand up and call out those who are offering advice that they know is bad advice.  Those of us who do are frequently ridiculed for doing so, because everybody has been convinced that such bad advice is good advice.

In most camping circles, what I tell people is known gospel, unquestionable, and taught by every camper there, just as it was taught to me.  I didn't invent this stuff, it was taught to me, and then proven by me through trial and error, to indeed be the best choices I have found.

If people don't like my suggestions, they don't need to follow them, but later, they may be very glad they read them.

Life can be as simple or as complicated as you choose to make it.

So why choose to make it complicated if it doesn't add to your level of comfort...


​

 

[akrvbob]

Off Grid 24/7, I'm through putting up with your very bad advice about insulation. It's gone beyond being helpful to being destructive and you are misleading people to their detriment.

We aren't going to debate this. Your next post about insulation will be deleted and you will be put on moderation which means that a moderator must approve all your posts before they will appear to the group.

This is the first time I've done this, and hopefully it will be the last time.

How can I justify this censorship?

I created this forum to help people and I believe you are doing them harm. I'm not going to allow my forum to be used to harm people just to pacify you or anyone else.
Bob