Thoughts on Preparing for Winter.

[SoulRaven]

I guess for me I would want to differentiate between living comfortably Vs surviving. I would want to move around my van comfortably without counting down the seconds until I can get back into my "warm spot".

Shortterm, its a great solution, but not for longer term comfortable living... which is my goal.

Here, I absolutely agree on both sides.  It is easier to just heat yourself, but I want my whole van warm inside, both for me, and for the health of my van.

If I can't be at least as comfortable in my van, as I could be in a house or an apartment, then it's time to re examine things.

 

[ZoNiE]

A goose down comforter goes a loooooong way.

 

[SoulRaven]

I  can't  tell if you are joking or not. If you are really turning a one time investment into a $1000 a month income, i want the name of your broker.

There's no broker involved, I'm talking about actual businesses being run by van dwellers around the country.  Many of these businesses cost far less than $1,000 to get started, and make the people far more than just $1,000 a month.

Here are a few examples of businesses ran by van dwellers, including startup costs, and profits:

Investment: $100 = 300 pair of sunglasses which sell on street corners for $5-$20/pair, additional $50 startup for signs & display.  Typical income $200-$300 profit per day.

Investment: $100 in ice cream bars, $100 in equipment for startup.  Insane profits in this fun business.  $100 worth of ice cream will return $400+ in profits.  Work the days and hours you want.

Selling stuffed animals on street corners.  $100-$200 initial investment, $600+ per day return per $100 worth of inventory.  (Carnival style stuffed animals) Can also be sold at fleas markets and the like.

Busking really requires no startup costs, or very little.  All that is required is a place where people congregate.  If you're only accepting tips, usually no license or permits are required, and you can rake in $100-$300+ in a day.  There's lots of fun ways to busk, almost any musical instrument will work, or magic, or mimes, if you can entertain people, you can make good money at busking.

I make +/- $60k per year online, in a mostly hands free business.  Startup cost, well under $1k.

These are just a few examples, I know probably 40-50 full timers that run their own businesses out of their vans or RV's.  Almost all of them work very part time, to make full time + money.

I would never have spent 40+ years working my butt off for other people, if I would have known how easy it was to make a lot more money working for myself, doing fun things that I enjoy.  Since retirement, I play my way to about $100k per year income, at least 5x what I ever made working for a living.

 

[SoulRaven]

This is a good idea. I could buy a Mr. Heater Buddy and put it right within arms reach. Then fire it up before exiting sleeping bag. I have read that the Mr. Heater Buddy will get a van's interior hot within 10 minutes. My Wave 3 will be mounted on the wall not within arms reach. Hmmm...

If you're starting at 60f, a wave 3 or buddy heater will definitely heat it up very quickly.  If you're starting out near freezing or below, those heaters are going to take a very long time to get you warm.  They just don't have the BTU's needed.  Those are chilly summer mornings or evenings type heaters, not winter heaters.

In the winter I wouldn't want to have any less than 20k BTU.  It doesn't take more than maybe 1k BTU to maintain the temperatures, but it's the amount of time to raise the temperature.  It doesn't use any more fuel, it just gets you comfortable quicker.

 

[akrvbob]

At freezing a Mr. Buddy heater will have my trailer up to 100 degrees in much less than hour. That's why I don't use it, it's TOO MUCH heat.

My Propane cook stove is more than enough to keep my van plenty warm down into the single digits.

Off-Grid, according to you, you're carrying

1) A Home built lawn mower engine connected to an alternator
2) Fuel for it
3) A home-built cooler/ air conditioner connected to a heater core of some kind (can't think of the right word)
4) a big Kerosene heater,
5) Fuel for it

I'd like to see pictures of all that stuff in you van and the Kerosene heater in location where you have clearances for the heat it creates.

Until I do I will be very doubtful that you can do it.
Bob

 

[highdesertranger]

off grid what I want to know is where you get kero for 2.50/gal? highdesertranger

 

[SoulRaven]

At freezing a Mr. Buddy heater will have my trailer up to 100 degrees in much less than hour. That's why I don't use it, it's TOO MUCH heat.

My Propane cook stove is more than enough to keep my van plenty warm down into the single digits.

Off-Grid, according to you, you're carrying

1) A Home built lawn mower engine connected to an alternator
2) Fuel for it
3) A home-built cooler/ air conditioner connected to a heater core of some kind (can't think of the right word)
4) a big Kerosene heater,
5) Fuel for it

I'd like to see pictures of all that stuff in you van and the Kerosene heater in location where you have clearances for the heat it creates.

Until I do I will be very doubtful that you can do it.
Bob

I can't understand why you would think this is so difficult, or so unusual.  A huge number of full timers that either don't have the luxury, or the desire to be snowbirds carry equipment for whatever weather conditions they may encounter.

View attachment 3912

View attachment 3915

For me, being prepared means having everything with me, and I actually have room to spare, and everything fits below the window line.

 

[SoulRaven]

off grid what I want to know is where you get kero for 2.50/gal?  highdesertranger

I usually get it from ads in off grid mags, the last barrel I bought was $138 delivered for 55 gallon drum.  I do have to drive to town to pick it up, because they won't deliver to my cabin.  The prices are usually lowest in the summer.  If I remember right, that one came from somewhere in Pennsylvania.

I just pick an ad, call a toll free # and order what I want.  This last batch is farm supply kerosene, it is dyed red.  Normally it is clear.  Seems to work just like the clear though.

So farm supply stores may be a good choice.  If I run low on the road, most fuel oil companies carry it, and I've had them fill my 2x7 gallon jugs for free a couple of times.  Guess they didn't figure it was worth screwing with collecting the money for such a small amount.

 

[highdesertranger]

here is why it's dyed red. http://www.msiwix.com/irstax.htm . jeez they are giving that kero away. the shipping on a 55 gallon drum of liquid is way expensive. you also need a fork lift to unload and load it. the shipping alone from Pennsylvania to out west here would take all of that 138 bucks easily. highdesertranger

 

[East]

My little buddy heater (not even the one with two areas for propane, just one) is enough to heat my E-150 on LOW, like the rock bottom lowest setting. This thing is a monster heater for the space in there. I do partition off the front of the vehicle with a thermal curtain. I have tested it down to roughly 20F or -6 to -7 celsius and it's worked without a problem.

I turn it off before bed and sleep in the cold with a beanie and 10F sleeping bag comfortably. In the morning I'll jump out of my bag, turn it on and jump back in my bag until it's heated in about 3-5minutes.

I've only done this for 2 months now though so for long term effects of humidity with regards to propane I am unsure of how negative this can be in a long term situation without a proper vented RV propane system. For me the humidity was manageable but maybe after a long period this would be difficult.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Thanks East. That's very helpful information. What area are you in? What 's the average humidity like?

 

[SoulRaven]

here is why it's dyed red.  http://www.msiwix.com/irstax.htm .  jeez they are giving that kero away.  the shipping on a 55 gallon drum of liquid is way expensive.  you also need a fork lift to unload and load it.  the shipping alone from Pennsylvania to out west here would take all of that 138 bucks easily.  highdesertranger

My cabin's in NM...

 

[SoulRaven]

My little buddy heater (not even the one with two areas for propane, just one) is enough to heat my E-150 on LOW, like the rock bottom lowest setting. This thing is a monster heater for the space in there. I do partition off the front of the vehicle with a thermal curtain. I have tested it down to roughly 20F or -6 to -7 celsius and it's worked without a problem.

I turn it off before bed and sleep in the cold with a beanie and 10F sleeping bag comfortably. In the morning I'll jump out of my bag, turn it on and jump back in my bag until it's heated in about 3-5minutes.

I've only done this for 2 months now though so for long term effects of humidity with regards to propane I am unsure of how negative this can be in a long term situation without a proper vented RV propane system. For me the humidity was manageable but maybe after a long period this would be difficult.

I think it's best to heat the cab too.  I've read many times where people who don't have ice form in the cab, and then later anything electric in the cab starts going haywire.

You're lucky in the respect that 20f isn't really that cold.  In a  van, those temps are very easy to deal with.  It's the below zero stuff when you start needing more heat.

 

[East]

Thanks East. That's very helpful information. What area are you in? What 's the average humidity like?

NP. Was in NE Ohio during last winter for those two months during the tail end. The humidity is very high in the area during the winter before the Erie and most of the other great lakes start freezing over completely. I'm not sure if it would be a fair comparison to a rainy Vancouver winter because most of those lakes had iced over. But 20F seems close from what you've described, the humidity concern is mostly related to the propane itself which tends to put a bit of it into the air which is not good for interior parts that can get damp. The area does get colder but I haven't been dwelling in temperatures below that range. I will likely not be around anywhere in that temperature range this coming winter. I think propane would be a viable solution for Vancouver though given the average temperatures:
https://weatherspark.com/averages/28404/Vancouver-British-Columbia-Canada (rarely below -6c)

An average low of 33.8f (1c) should be completely compatible with propane heating. That's the average low for the coldest month. Just make sure you install a Co2 Detector and have some ventilation. I didn't mention it but I had my windows cracked for ventilation and it still worked very well. This is with windows all around as well, you don't have nearly as many windows and much better insulation. I think it would work fine.

I think it's best to heat the cab too.  I've read many times where people who don't have ice form in the cab, and then later anything electric in the cab starts going haywire.

You're lucky in the respect that 20f isn't really that cold.  In a  van, those temps are very easy to deal with.  It's the below zero stuff when you start needing more heat.

I have not dwelled in temperatures below 20F and most likely will not in the future. You're probably right about the cab. I think if any damage occurred it would be minimal as the thermal curtain allows some heat to pass unlike a true partition, definitely no ice up there thankfully. My front windows stayed cracked to allow for ventilation as part of the overall system.

 

[akrvbob]

Based on living in Alaska in a van for 6 years, heating the cab is a total waste and not even a little necessary for your electroncis.

Very bad idea.
Bob

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Great information guys. Thanks.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Based on living in Alaska in a van for 6 years, heating the cab is a total waste and not even a little necessary for your electroncis.

Very bad idea.
Bob

Yeah, I dont know of many people that heat the insides of their cars. Keep the battery warm sure but the interior? News to me.

 

[SoulRaven]

Yeah, I dont know of many people that heat the insides of their cars. Keep the battery warm sure but the interior? News to me.

I don't remember whether it was here or elsewhere, but a couple of years ago there was quite a number of people in camper vans with dividers, reporting icicles in their cabs.  Shortly thereafter those same people were reporting gauges and switches not working.

There were a number of people in the same area without dividers, that were having no cab icing problems.

Seems like it might have been on the east coast somewhere.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Speculation on my part, but if someone were heating with propane, that would create a lot of moisture in the air.  If the moisture could migrate through the barrier, I could totally see how there could be icing problems in the cold part of the vehicle.  This situation would be totally different than regular vehicles left unheated in cold weather.

Bob, didn't you live in a box van in Alaska?  Solid divider between the box and the front?

Remember, just speculation.

Regards
John

 

[Free Range Chicken]

I don't remember whether it was here or elsewhere, but a couple of years ago there was quite a number of people in camper vans with dividers, reporting icicles in their cabs.  Shortly thereafter those same people were reporting gauges and switches not working.

There were a number of people in the same area without dividers, that were having no cab icing problems.

Seems like it might have been on the east coast somewhere.

Hello off grid. The icicles formation makes sense to me!! I am working in my build and if you have a divided compartment with an over the cab / over head compartment, ( mainly only high roof models) makes even more sense! !! My approach will be trying to make water drain to the rear and seal/insulate the over head cabin from the front. Hopefully that'll prevent water and moisture to drain through the windshield into the controls and electronics.

Thanks for raising awareness of that. Do you have more details about that issue?