Terrorism in Oregon
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AltTransBikes
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It's ironic that much of the anti big gubmint lobby is very much in favor of property rights while finding it extremely convenient to say public land belongs to the people.....and THEY are the people.
Boondockers, trekkers, and back country lovers understand agencies like the NFS and BLM. We know that in many places, without public land stewardship, closed roads, locked gates and no trespassing signs become the norm.
So do some ranchers.
A lifelong friend has a beef ranch in CO. He puts 300 market cows up on NFS land for summer grazing. I've been there for round-up and the cows come in looking fit and fed. It cost him (in 2014) $400@mo for 300 head, a bit over a grand a grand for the summer. He thinks it's an okay deal, even considering the cost of moving them. If he had to own and service the debt and taxes on that much pasture or lease it at commercial rates, it would be another thing pulling him under. The NFS provides range management oversight, water quality monitoring, infrastructure: roads, bridges, cattle guards, culverts, loading areas (just as they provide similar infrastructure for logging and extraction industries)
IMO, the Bundy's are being played but they also have their own opportunist agenda so they're okay with it. They're being played by the so-called 'astro-turf' (read grass roots) organizations, *********, PACs, et al, because slippery rascals like the Koch brothers and other extraction industry rogues covertly support them in their long awaited wish to reap profits and have the tax payer help them out.
Total federal appropriations for the combined USFS and BLM grazing programs in fiscal year 2014 were $143.6 million, while grazing fee receipts were only $18.5 million. https://www.biologicaldiversity.org...grazing/pdfs/CostsAndConsequences_01-2015.pdf , and the gap for timber and extraction industry is much wider. They are already getting a good deal, grazng fee accounting is a token, an honor system, but of course they want it even sweeter. The fox wants to run the hen house.
Fact Check – The Bundy Ranch Cattle & The BLM
http://www.factandmyth.com/conspiracy-theory/cliven-bundys-cattle-and-the-federal-land-grab
Boondockers, trekkers, and back country lovers understand agencies like the NFS and BLM. We know that in many places, without public land stewardship, closed roads, locked gates and no trespassing signs become the norm.
So do some ranchers.
A lifelong friend has a beef ranch in CO. He puts 300 market cows up on NFS land for summer grazing. I've been there for round-up and the cows come in looking fit and fed. It cost him (in 2014) $400@mo for 300 head, a bit over a grand a grand for the summer. He thinks it's an okay deal, even considering the cost of moving them. If he had to own and service the debt and taxes on that much pasture or lease it at commercial rates, it would be another thing pulling him under. The NFS provides range management oversight, water quality monitoring, infrastructure: roads, bridges, cattle guards, culverts, loading areas (just as they provide similar infrastructure for logging and extraction industries)
IMO, the Bundy's are being played but they also have their own opportunist agenda so they're okay with it. They're being played by the so-called 'astro-turf' (read grass roots) organizations, *********, PACs, et al, because slippery rascals like the Koch brothers and other extraction industry rogues covertly support them in their long awaited wish to reap profits and have the tax payer help them out.
Total federal appropriations for the combined USFS and BLM grazing programs in fiscal year 2014 were $143.6 million, while grazing fee receipts were only $18.5 million. https://www.biologicaldiversity.org...grazing/pdfs/CostsAndConsequences_01-2015.pdf , and the gap for timber and extraction industry is much wider. They are already getting a good deal, grazng fee accounting is a token, an honor system, but of course they want it even sweeter. The fox wants to run the hen house.
Fact Check – The Bundy Ranch Cattle & The BLM
http://www.factandmyth.com/conspiracy-theory/cliven-bundys-cattle-and-the-federal-land-grab
AltTransBikes
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gsfish said:
Funny stuff and a gentle reminder that is a satire site.
LeeRevell
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Satire site or not, my nearly eighty year old mother (birthday on the 17th) got a good laugh out of it. 
old man strength,growing up around war vets and farmers i learned about that stuff early and the hard way of course
make all the fun about the bundys you want,they deserve it,but make no mistake,the feds want complete and absolute control of you,they are not to be trusted and the letters d and r behind their name makes no difference
make all the fun about the bundys you want,they deserve it,but make no mistake,the feds want complete and absolute control of you,they are not to be trusted and the letters d and r behind their name makes no difference
U
Amazing. Your life experiences, outlook and expectations are so much different from mine. Most of the people who have ever given me a hard time have nothing to do with the government. The incompetents and foot draggers and belligerents are usually in private businesses. Even recently, while Uncle Sam managed to process our passports and get them to us in a little over 3 weeks, including mailing time, the bloody insurance company has still not gotten me my insurance card. It is stuck somewhere in the black hole of their data processing.
Gary68 said:
Amazing. Your life experiences, outlook and expectations are so much different from mine. Most of the people who have ever given me a hard time have nothing to do with the government. The incompetents and foot draggers and belligerents are usually in private businesses. Even recently, while Uncle Sam managed to process our passports and get them to us in a little over 3 weeks, including mailing time, the bloody insurance company has still not gotten me my insurance card. It is stuck somewhere in the black hole of their data processing.
gcal said:
i'm an oregonian,i have voted things in to law just to have the feds say no and fight it tooth and nail,in fact we have a couple laws here that are still against federal law,add in the alphabet soup,i.r.s,e.p.a.,n.s.a blah blah blah
they are my employee,they do what i say not the other way around
We the people of the United States of America...
Gary68 said:
"Voted things." Well, that is pretty vague. Were you a legislator or just signing petitions or voting for referendums? What, exactly, were you voting for and did you know that it was against Federal statutes when you were doing it?
Believe it or not, state law does not trump federal law. This is, indeed, the United States, not A Bunch of States or Local Governments Going Their Own Way. Local interests are going to be superseded by national interests.
Gary68 said:
Medical marijuana will be accepted everywhere, eventually. Much more dangerous drugs are accepted without a problem. The issue with marijuana is its hippy past.
Assited suicide will also be accepted. My generation is used to getting our own way. As one gets older, one gets used to the inevitability of death. Medical advances can keep us alive by dragging us thru months of misery that are not worth living thru. We also dont want to squander whtever wealth we could still leave our families on this useless medical care. We will get our way with the law. We always did.
mockturtle
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Assisted suicide is the law in Oregon, as it is in Washington state.
Canine
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gcal said:
I read the 10th Amendment to specifically limit Federal authority. The Feds have authority only what is given in the Constitution; the states have authority over the Feds regarding anything else. The States keeps Federal authority in check.
I see it as a bunch of states going their own way within some loose boundaries. One state can experiment with something, and if that doesn't work, they can look to other states to see how they can do better. (I wish that would happen more often!) Or if my state does something I don't like, I can move to another state that is more to my liking.
That is just my interpretation, though. We all have our own idea of what the Constitution says. Kind of like dog training- no matter what ya do, you're gonna be wrong!
Article 4, Section 3, Clause2 of the Constitution covers the Federal ownership and administration of land. If you don't like what they are doing, elect different politicians who will see things your way. My generation has been doing that for as long as we have had the vote. States have a great deal of autonomy, but in the end, they are still subject to Federal oversight. If you don't think the founding Fathers saw things this way, read up on how George Washington firmly handled an armed insurrection on his watch.Canine said:I read the 10th Amendment to specifically limit Federal authority. The Feds have authority only what is given in the Constitution; the states have authority over the Feds regarding anything else. The States keeps Federal authority in check.
I see it as a bunch of states going their own way within some loose boundaries. One state can experiment with something, and if that doesn't work, they can look to other states to see how they can do better. (I wish that would happen more often!) Or if my state does something I don't like, I can move to another state that is more to my liking.
That is just my interpretation, though. We all have our own idea of what the Constitution says. Kind of like dog training- no matter what ya do, you're gonna be wrong!
LeeRevell
Well-known member
The Tyrant Lincoln effectively emasculated and marginalized the Tenth Amendment.
LeeRevell said:
The war was about slavery, Lee. People have tried to clean up its image since then, but it was about slavery, pure and simple. That's what all all that jockeying around about ony admitting one non slave state for each slave state in the years before the war was about. The southern elite could not maintain its lifestyle without slavery. The plantation system was not economically viable without slavery. For the upper classes, it was about economics.. The lower classes were pumped up with propaganda and convinced against their own interests to fight, as happens in every war.
You can go on and on about states rights all you want. You can see from the vigilante killings and the KKK intimidation and the southern state laws to keep those negros in their place after the war what it was really about for the lower classes. The war was about slavery, about having a class of people that even the lowest, poorest, most despicable whites could feel superior to. The slave masters lost. The poor whites who were suckered into the fight lost, too. It is over and people should be honest about it and get over it. Stop trying to whitewash it.
Without going into the whys and why nots of the 'occupation', I found this latest tidbit to be f'ing hilarious:
the Bundy group via internet asks for the public's help with some food and supplies, ie 'care packages'. What they got had me ROFLMAO.
The 'packages' came and inside were packs of 'glitter', 'candies shaped like little penises', and some full sized 'sex toys' !!
God, I love America....finding humor in any situation!
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oregon-militia-idUSKCN0US31420160114
the Bundy group via internet asks for the public's help with some food and supplies, ie 'care packages'. What they got had me ROFLMAO.
The 'packages' came and inside were packs of 'glitter', 'candies shaped like little penises', and some full sized 'sex toys' !!
God, I love America....finding humor in any situation!
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oregon-militia-idUSKCN0US31420160114
Canine
Well-known member
Ggal.Great post.Poor people are still being suckered into fighting and dying for the rich.And voting for the rich against their own interests.
