Terrorism in Oregon

[gcal]

Right.  Specifically, a constitutionally limited Republic.  And the original intent, before the constitution became a 2,000 page bloated document, was simple.  The two roles the Federal government was to play was 1) "...to provide for the common defense", and 2) "...the regulation of interstate commerce.  That's it.  Everything else was for the states to decide.

The original intent was to deny women the vote and to let slavery stand. The times, they are-changing.

 

[LeeRevell]

Right.  Specifically, a constitutionally limited Republic.  And the original intent, before the constitution became a 2,000 page bloated document, was simple.  The two roles the Federal government was to play was 1) "...to provide for the common defense", and 2) "...the regulation of interstate commerce.  That's it.  Everything else was for the states to decide.

The Constitution has not changed or become "bloated".  It reads the same as when ratified in the 1790's.  It is the Federal Government that has become bloated.

 

[LeeRevell]

Right fight, wrong tactics.......   another view of this event:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-02-12-23-23-52

 

[GotSmart]

Right fight, wrong tactics.......   another view of this event:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-02-12-23-23-52

If you do not like a law, there are legal means of changing it.  Not with guns.

 

[gcal]

The Constitution has not changed or become "bloated".  It reads the same as when ratified in the 1790's.  It is the Federal Government that has become bloated.

Kind of hard to run the most powerful nation in the world on a shoestring out of a garage.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Kind of hard to run the most powerful nation in the world on a shoestring out of a garage.

We are moving away from a discussion of current events into what could be called a discussion of politics. 

After all, political philosophy is just as much politics as Dem vs Repub partisan politics is.

Still, maybe Bob will indulge us if we do it politely.

Question:  Should we even be TRYING to run the most powerful nation in the world?

The purpose of the Constitution was to:  "establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and insure the blessings of liberty"

I don't see world domination in there anywhere.

Lots of other countries - Switzerland, Norway, et al seem to be able to do all of those things without being the most powerful nation in the world.

What would happen to us, if, like Britain, we suddenly discover that we are NOT the most powerful country in the world anymore?

Just throwing that out there to see what I stir up.

And remember, kids, keep it polite!

Regards
John

 

[LeeRevell]

We are moving away from a discussion of current events into what could be called a discussion of politics. 

After all, political philosophy is just as much politics as Dem vs Repub partisan politics is.

Still, maybe Bob will indulge us if we do it politely.

Question:  Should we even be TRYING to run the most powerful nation in the world?

The purpose of the Constitution was to:  "establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and insure the blessings of liberty"

I don't see world domination in there anywhere.

Lots of other countries - Switzerland, Norway, et al seem to be able to do all of those things without being the most powerful nation in the world.

What would happen to us, if, like Britain, we suddenly discover that we are NOT the most powerful country in the world anymore?

Just throwing that out there to see what I stir up.

And remember, kids, keep it polite!

Regards
John

Methinks it began with that pesky "Monroe Doctrine" and the concept of "Manifest Destiny".  It drives the failed idea of "bringing freedom and Democracy" to those who are quite frankly neither ready for it or desire it.  Isolationism is certainly not the answer but neither is sticking our noses where it doesn't belong.

 

[akrvbob]

No, that's off-topic and politics, posts on that will be deleted.
Bob

 

[gcal]

The occupiers in Oregon failed for so many reasons. In fact, they set their cause back whatever their cause was.

1. They did not have overwhelming local support. They had a few, but the majority of the locals wanted to keep the bird sanctuary and wanted the occupiers gone. A good chunk of the locals make their livings from the bird sanctuary.
2. Lack of local participation. Only 2 of them were even from Oregon and even they were not local. The Hammond's disavowed them and the rancher whose cattle they tried to bring into the refuge repaired the fence to keep the cattle out, and he also disavowed them.
3. Come on, guys, a frigging bird sanctuary!?! Could you provide a softer target for comedy?
4. No focus on a clear agenda that made any sense. It seemed like "oh, and we want this too" every 5 minutes.
5. The wrong leadership. A leadership that was hearing voices in their heads, clearly felt entitled, that seemed to be playing silly games with all the militia jargon. People who had absolutely no PR sense.
6. The wrong followers. Felons, frauds, hysterical shockjocks, people who came off as crackpots in public, on video. Some of the out of control wannabes even harassed locals.
7. The Indians. No matter how good your Pity Me story is, theirs is going to be better. Always. Don't ever shoot your mouth off about how they lost their rights and that's just too bad in public as Bundy did. You. Will. Lose.
8. The destruction and usurping of public property. Most of the public is going to be mad about that. The only thing that could have been stupider was:
9. THE GUNS!!! If you want to stage a peaceful protest, you do not show up with guns, strut around with them in public where people are not used to that, and start verbally threatening anyone who tries to stop you. You do not start howling about bloodbaths and dying for your cause and about how you do not recognize the Federal government. You will make yourself look like dangerous, delusional crackpots. They did just that. If they had shown up unarmed with picket signs and camping gear, they would have been allowed to stay forever. As it is, now, the main focus for the public is on how it will costs the taxpayers millions in extra security and damage repair because a bunch of dangerous lunatics occupied a bird sanctuary and tore it up. The public wants them in jail.

 

[gcal]

Improvised road plowed to a sensitive archeological site. A trench full of human feces "on or next to" a sensitive site. Making friends, making friends.