Stealth grey water emptying?

[lenny flank]

18 million Americans currently get their water from systems that violate the federal regs.

And yes, will be getting worse for sure.

Nestle's happy!

To be fair, that is because most cities have water pipe transport systems that were built in the 1800's, and can't be replaced because nobody wants to pay taxes to pay for it. And yes, if we continue to refuse to update and upgrade, it will keep getting worse.

As for Nestle, the water they sell, like nearly every other bottled water company, is just city tap water. So they're no better off.

 

[GotSmart]

As for Nestle, the water they sell, like nearly every other bottled water company, is just city tap water. So they're no better off.

UH ~~~ NO.

Do your research is all I will respond to that.

 

[John61CT]

I think it's a crime that anyone in the US feels the need to buy drinking water.

And that's not the sort of thing should be considered "optional" for a developed country's government, no matter what the more powerful citizens - those that vote or pay taxes - may think.

 

[highdesertranger]

come on people stay on subject, which is dumping grey water. highdesertranger

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

 . . . People need to have a sense of scope and scale with this stuff; vandwellers aren't the enemy.

The ecological effect of dumping grey water on public land is not relevant to my argument.  What I am positing is that we are (always) setting an example to others.  If someone sees me dumping in somewhere other than an authorized place, it will probably make a negative impression.  They do not know if I am dumping distilled water or toxic waste, and some will complain to authorities about it.  Worse, if Joe Slob see me he will think it is OK to dump his tank(s) onto public spaces (I saw Spiff do it!).

This is a small community that is somewhat dependent on being invisible.  We have to be careful that our example doesn't embolden others to 'foul the nest'.  All it takes is for a few bad actors to wreck it for the rest of us.  In my neighborhood all it took is one a$$hole to eliminate overnight street parking.

I appreciate being able to boondock on State, BLM, and NF land with minimal restrictions.  I certainly don't want to be partially responsible for limiting it in the future.

 -- Spiff

 

[Wabbit]

I want to LNT(oxymoron), but why isn't easy for me to do this? I stopped in @Red Rock Ranger District office and asked where I could deposit my trash. Ranger Bruce looked at me like I was an idiot(in fairness he was right, but for the wrong reasons) and pointed me to a campground 60 minutes away. WTF. I burn my paper and smash my metal and plastics into separate bags. They have 4 dumpsters at that location, all with big ass stickers saying not for public use. OK, well then where am I supposed to drop off my LNT(oxymoron) trash? Here's where I dropped off 2 small bags of trash(think Walmart bags), one in a dollar general trash can(had to go in and look at there over priced crap because who knows, maybe there's a deal). The second bag got crammed into a Walmart trash bin. Sure they love that, now they have to pay to dispose of my trash. Whatever.

Now, onto waste water...I don't have an RV with the hoses or whatever. Where's the place I can dump 30 gallons of grey water(or 5 gallons) on any given day? 60 miles away from a National Forest area?!? I think I'm OK with putting my daily use water(vinegar dish washing and canned vegetable juices) into a 1 gallon bucket and walking it 500ft away from camp at the end of the day and tossing it.

I would love to spend a month with some of these people that insist that all waste water go somewhere "legal". If they are so conscientious, why aren't they out having a fit about the pollution and waste from literally just a few companies(100 or so) out of 10's of thousands. There are huge targets out there. Why ignore them and then parade around in a self righteous cape pointing your finger at the lil guy? Srsly, why?

So...I'm making friends right? Lol. Anyways, my point is valid in my mind.

 

[djkeev]

IF I were to have a grey water tank that I wanted to empty, I would do it while driving, just a drip / drizzle onto the asphalt, it would very quickly evaporate and would never be noticed any moe than an Air Conditioner Evaporator drainage is noticed.

I've seen worse things drizzled onto pavement.
I once followed a one inch wide PINK paint line on I-5 from Ashland Oregon to Portland Oregon. I bet the truck driver was pissed when he got to his destination with an empty truck! (Or overjoyed that he dumped that unwanted load!)

Dave

 

[Svenn]

IF I were to have a grey water tank that I wanted to empty, I would do it while driving, just a drip / drizzle onto the asphalt, it would very quickly evaporate and would never be noticed any moe than an Air Conditioner Evaporator drainage is noticed.

Good idea but it still requires a holding tank which I don't have the clearance for or desire to engineer.  I was considering maybe a big canvas pouch or something, flexible enough not to reduce my clearance, which would slowly seep out the water.

 

[highdesertranger]

so all of you that don't have a way to hold grey water(a permanent tank is not necessary) or think it's ok to dump it on the ground. you all never plan to stay at a campground? I have never heard of a campground where it is ok to dump your grey water on the ground weather it's a National Forest, BLM, Corp of Engineers, private, county, etc. what about National Parks and Monuments = no dumping. what about along the Klamath River in Northern California where all waste water must be contained? what about the LTVA areas (here you must have permanent tanks). these areas are just getting more and more common. by dumping your grey water you are just assuring the acceleration of restrictions. what about the RTR's and people reading on here that's it's no big deal and it's ok to dump grey water on the ground, do you think that attitude is going to help in the future? sorry about the rant, but I don't see condoning this as being very helpful. highdesertranger

 

[Ballenxj]

IF I were to have a grey water tank that I wanted to empty, I would do it while driving, just a drip / drizzle onto the asphalt, it would very quickly evaporate and would never be noticed any moe than an Air Conditioner Evaporator drainage is noticed.

So you're the guy responsible for that mist that kept accumulating on my windshield on the highway? J/K.
I'm certainly getting an earful from both sides of this fence. Hopefully I'll learn something?
HDR, please allow open conversation about this to continue. I find this somewhat educational.

 

[lenny flank]

so all of you that don't have a way to hold grey water(a permanent tank is not necessary) or think it's ok to dump it on the ground.  you all never plan to stay at a campground?

I stay almost exclusively in Walmart lots. But as I mentioned before, I never have more than two quarts of greywater at any time (for cleaning up using bio-soap, and that only every few days since I do waterless cleanups in between). So I treat it the same way I do when backpacking--I dump it in the grass away from any water source, so it can filter out before it reaches the water table.

I quite agree that dumping one's holding tank anywhere other than a facility for dumping waste tanks (black or grey water) is a no-no--both because of its potential for harm, and also because dumping like that in a parking lot is apt to get us all banned.

 

[LMTLMT]

wow didn't know grey water is a touchy subject but I love the passion from both sides tho. we might not agree 100% on issues but that's ok just like some sleeps on the first date and some don't but we make love eventually. I hope a subject of disposing pee bottles into Walmart's trash can don't get this heated or maybe it will lol.

 

[bullfrog]

Since people's perception and rules and regulations are the main concern of the original post let's try to come up with some ideas for releasing a gallon to five gallons of fluids that would be acceptable to the general public. Catching grey water in gallon jugs and dumping them into a public toilet maybe. A colostomy bag with a tube running down a pant leg, just stand on the grass and release. Since pets can pee anywhere maybe a realistic looking large dog you fill with grey water and set next to a tree or hydrant. Maybe a pump and mister spray. Go to the self serve car wash and shower while parked in the stall. Run your drain hose into one of those big mister fans on hot days and see how many people stop to cool off their pets, be sure to put out a donation jar for the local pet shelter, you might even get a good citizen award! Some times thinking about how silly we have become makes me stupid silly.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Honest question ... what is the philosophic, moral, and chemical difference between water caught in a tub, bucket, grey water tank and water that falls from my body while standing in a shower tent? What if I pee while showering in my shower tent? Is it worse to catch the water in a bucket/tank and use bio-degradable soap or to shower in a shower tent using Prel and Irish Spring?

I'm not trying to start a fight or get dragged in to all the political stuff. I honestly want to know. If I can shower in a shower tent then why can't I shower in my rig then dump the water on the ground?

I get the whole don't dump tanks is a residential area, don't water the desert, don't dump black water ... anywhere that isn't designed for it. But grey water? Water, soap, maybe even a little grease, dead skin and hair, maybe a few food particles? I grew up washing dishes on picnic table benches and pitching the water off in to the woods, in National, State, Provincial parks. Aside from a very few instances that had strict water rules we never had a problem and never made a mess and never polluted the world. My water usage right now is in the tens ... maybe even close to 100 gallons a day. On the road I'm calculating about 2-3 gallons a day. No matter what I do I will be harming the planet less than I do now.

 

[bigsallysmom]

Food particles bring critters.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Food particles bring critters.

Which is why as a child I learned to cook away from tents and to carry away and pitch dishwater away from camp. Food and boots in a tent will send me into conniptions. I grew up van camping, cannoe camping, and back country backpacking. I know the rules. Car campers still must do dishes. Dish water gets pitched. Now with shower tents tje question still remains.

What is the philosophical, moral, and chemical difference if I bathe in my rig then dump the water outside as opposed to simply taking a shower in a shower tent and letting the water fall on the ground?

Please, deserts where you're supposed to pack out your pee withstanding. Explicit rules and restrictions etc ... should be followed if for no other reason than self.preservation.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Interesting thread, I can easily see the arguments from both sides.

However, taking all the scientific analysis out of the equation on whether it's harmful or not, it's perceived status from others as harmful is reason enough to not dump it anywhere other than approved places. Enough people see and complain about it being done and the restrictions and banning begin. A couple of dozen people do it out of a few hundred at an RTR and you can say goodbye to that event from being allowed. I'd be willing to bet more than one Walmart has banned overnight parking for this exact reason, someone dumped their tanks and pulled out in the morning.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Honest question  . . .  grey water? Water, soap, maybe even a little grease, dead skin and hair, maybe a few food particles? I grew up washing dishes on picnic table benches and pitching the water off in to the woods, in National, State, Provincial parks . . .

I'll give you my opinion:

Technically, dumping any grey water in an area it is illegal is a violation.  Will you get cited if caught?  Probably depends on the area, amount, past problems, how much of a mess it makes and the mood of the officer.  For most of us our small vehicles limit the amount of water we can use and dump.  A little soap isn't going to hurt unless you are in a heavily used or sensitive area.  It is more about leaving no trace; if you can tell where you dumped (or showered), you probably dumped too much or not in a good place.

Dishwater is a little trickier as it is considered sewage.  The big problem with water with food bits in it is that it attracts animals (mice can also be attracted to the fat in your Irish Spring).  The more popular an area the bigger the problem.  Wouldn't want to camp in an area that has a skunk hanging around for food scraps.

Urine is actually a good fertilizer, it has lots of nitrogen.  Since it is strong enough to burn plants I usually dilute my pee bottle with breakfast dishwater; my beagle is great about cleaning up food on the plates in his pre-wash.  When boondocking I dump well away from camp and in a different place every day.

I handle feces differently.  I pack it out when boondocking, along with toilet paper.  When backpacking I dig a 6" deep cat hole and pack out the toilet paper.

I grew up in the BWCA.  The old timers who taught me canoe craft thought nothing of washing dishes in a lake ("feeds the fish"), the smoked bacon slab was kept in a Duluth pack with all our other food under an overturned canoe; no problems with bears or rodents.  Today neither would work or be acceptable.  Times change, more people in the wilderness change things just by shear numbers, we learn to impact the environment less, animals learn we are an easy source of food.  I am constantly amazed at how smart and resourceful black bears are, how quickly they learn and how they pass that learning on to the next generation.

 -- Spiff

 

[DannyB1954]

Like I said, I can't speak to your conspiracy theory.

I don't know why you insist that I have a conspiracy theory. I just told you how reality is. When you do your laundry where there is a waste treatment plant, the water, soap, and bleach does not get separated. When you dump your grey tank at a National Park dump station, the soap, water, and bleach does not go to mars. There is no shortage of people who want to make more regulations. 

I have three RV's, A 30' Class A self contained, a 22' self contained toyhauler trailer, and a van. I like having a full grey tank when I dump my black tank at a dump station because I use the grey water to flush out the black tank and hose. When I am out in the van I use a gallon to shower. I catch the water in a mortar mixing tub. I slide it under the van for the night, (cause I don't want to put my shoes back on), and in the morning find a bush that needs water. I suppose that I could put the water into the fresh water portion of my portapotti and use it for flushing. When I stayed 3 weeks in my van during Jamie's build out, I never had a bush die because I gave it soapy water. Some people actually spray their plants with soap to keep the bugs off of them. Aphids I believe. old saying about take the log out of your own eye before trying to take the splinter out of mine. 

As far as what you do in a campground being different than in a remote site, I think that is only obvious. Nobody should be digging a cat hole in the dirt to take a dump at a campsite either. So I guess my final statement will be dump your grey with stealth, because someone is just itching to get someone else in trouble over nothing.

 

[TMG51]

Reminds me of the time I was in a shower and had to "go". No this is not a story about peeing in a shower. So anyways, in the shower, decent buzz, and didn't feel liked drying the floor around the toilet from getting out and back in. Mind you, I was just a young'n at this time, mid 30's maybe. So I made the "decision". I'm not going to get dramatic and say it was the worst decision of my life, but it was certainly the worst decision of the day. Why? My shower had a grate that was more than just the four bars. Think thick chicken wire. I did the only thing I could think of, stomp and rinse. Wasn't just like one stomp either. Ever stepped in dog **** barefoot? Yeah. Bright side is I was in a shower, so easy but time consuming to clean up, also nobody knows it happened. True story.

Top notch story, Wabbit. Maybe we can get this added as a sticky.

P.S. Flip flops are henceforth required for your shower guests.