Social security

[RvNaut]

That said, I am not a big fan of Biden and do not agree with this raising of benefit age.

He isn't the one proposing it... he is saying he might accept it in a bargain where he gets what he wants, IE and increase in taxes and minimum.

Also... the witness to the accused Biden graft, was arrested ... he was lying his face off. So Biden wasn't lining his pockets. OTOH there are other politicians that certainly used their position to "line their pockets" ... eh?

 

[user 22017]

I’m not sure how secure SS really is. I know that it has a really bad ROI.

I’ll admit that for many of my working years I maxed out my payroll contributions. In absolute dollars I and my companies paid over $300,000 into SS. But in absolute dollars after 10 years retirement, I’m still less than what I paid into it. However if I consider inflation, I suspect that in purchasing power I paid much closer to $600,000 in current dollars and that means in all probability, I’ll never really break even.


The funding problem is a problem, and I suspect that it’s going to be an ever-increasing issue with the current wage spread between the workers and upper management, AI, and the social effect of things like the FIRE movement.

But lt’s go back to the idea of some kind of forced private retirement system. The risk factor can be drastically reduced by using a bucket approach when a person starts collections, also let’s impose some kind of a 4% withdrawal rule. But instead of making the funds inheritable, let’s say upon death the remaining funds are put into a pool which is then used to insure a minimum secure payout. That would eliminate the current dependency on a payroll tax. And I think doing that would be a wise move because then the funding would not be dependent on 1) how long folks remained as an employee, 2) no real effect from a recession/depression, 3) no real impact from a growth of AI, or any other items which might cause fewer folks actually receiving a payroll income.

Here it comes... Privatization of public services. The right never stops looking for a way to profit off the citizenry. Jeebus.

 

[mpruet]

Nowhere does it say "ONLY" basic needs. Basic is the floor and has changed over the years. None of this means we need to privatize retirement. I believe this is pushed more by a desire from the private sector to get access to more of our money than any actual need to "save" SS. Greed knows no bounds! I don't want a repeat of the 401k crash to similarly affect SS. There are too many people that cannot take a cut and expect to recover over time like you claimed for 401k. Any drop in monthly SS checks would be catastrophic.

At this point we are arguing in circles and just repeating the same things but using slightly different words. Why not drop it?

Ron, all I have been doing is suggesting ways which we could potentially increase SS payouts. That seems to be one of the key things that you and many others have been asking for. It’s very doubtful that can happen with the current system because currently excess money pumped into SS is invested in government bonds - very low risk but also not really able to keep up with inflation. You could argue that the government could just print the money, but that would tend to be inflationary because it would increase the money supply.

So from what I hear the goal is to 1) increase payout, 2) ensure security of the payout, 3) still give the poorer folks some advantage. One way to increase the payout is for a percentage of the money going into the system to be invested in other things that have a higher payout, similar to funds. This is the ‘hybrid solution’ I mentioned. Is there a risk, a bit more than now, but that can be contained by using something like a bucket strategy. I personally like the idea of forcing a citizen to manage something like an IRA, but that’s really more of an idea to improve exposure to how the market works so hopefully the more educated individual will create their own investment plan, but that is orthogonal to the basic idea.

So how to ensure the security - I proposed something like a bucket system where the next ‘X’ years payout would be more secure than the later years. This strategy is a method which ensures cash for the near future so you don’t face the impact of a recession. The only downside is that the most secure bucket is potentially not going to grow as quickly as inflation. But that’s always the case with the current strategy in which all reserve money is invested in government bonds.

The next issue is how to give the poorer folks some advantage. Currently your SS payouts die with you. There is no inheritance. One solution might be to take the residual money when a person dies and use that to expand the basic payout used for the poorer citizens.

 

[mpruet]

Here it comes... Privatization of public services. The right never stops looking for a way to profit off the citizenry. Jeebus.

No - just some ideas how we could increase the current payout of SS. I’m guessing that you’re aware that currently the so-called SS fund (really just the excess payments) is only invested in government bonds, which has one of the lowest return rates.

Oh and I would hardly say that I’m on the ‘right’… ;-)

 

[towboater]

Which of us has done better has never been the question. And I'm not going to get in a measurement battle with anyone. I am just saying that I want private corporate American to stay on their side of the street and keep their hands off Social Security. IF you or I ALSO choose to make private investments, that was and is our choice.

We actually agree about something . Also, we have no say in whether our current or former employers switch to new 401k investment companies. I had a sizable loss when this happened as my original fund was doing quite well but the new Investment company dumped me in a mediocre pool.

 

[mpruet]

We actually agree about something . Also, we have no say in whether our current or former employers switch to new 401k investment companies. I had a sizable loss when this happened as my original fund was doing quite well but the new Investment company dumped me in a mediocre pool.

I know that it’s too late for you, but what some folks do is to do periodic direct transfers from a 401K to an IRA that is totally under their control.

 

[user 22017]

He isn't the one proposing it... he is saying he might accept it in a bargain where he gets what he wants, IE and increase in taxes and minimum.

Grrr ... Biden is such a disappointment. There goes my blood pressure.

 

[WanderingRose]

At this point we are arguing in circles and just repeating the same things but using slightly different words.

Yes.

 

[RonDean]

Ron, all I have been doing is suggesting ways which we could potentially increase SS payouts. That seems to be one of the key things that you and many others have been asking for. It’s very doubtful that can happen with the current system because currently excess money pumped into SS is invested in government bonds - very low risk but also not really able to keep up with inflation. You could argue that the government could just print the money, but that would tend to be inflationary because it would increase the money supply.

So from what I hear the goal is to 1) increase payout, 2) ensure security of the payout, 3) still give the poorer folks some advantage. One way to increase the payout is for a percentage of the money going into the system to be invested in other things that have a higher payout, similar to funds. This is the ‘hybrid solution’ I mentioned. Is there a risk, a bit more than now, but that can be contained by using something like a bucket strategy. I personally like the idea of forcing a citizen to manage something like an IRA, but that’s really more of an idea to improve exposure to how the market works so hopefully the more educated individual will create their own investment plan, but that is orthogonal to the basic idea.

So how to ensure the security - I proposed something like a bucket system where the next ‘X’ years payout would be more secure than the later years. This strategy is a method which ensures cash for the near future so you don’t face the impact of a recession. The only downside is that the most secure bucket is potentially not going to grow as quickly as inflation. But that’s always the case with the current strategy in which all reserve money is invested in government bonds.

The next issue is how to give the poorer folks some advantage. Currently your SS payouts die with you. There is no inheritance. One solution might be to take the residual money when a person dies and use that to expand the basic payout used for the poorer citizens.

re: "That seems to be one of the key things that you and many others have been asking for." - NO, NO, NO. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have NOT been saying benefits need to be raised. My goal is much more simple. Just keep SS as it is. A safe and secure retirement fund handled exclusively by the government. If its funds do not meet the needs, I would be open to means testing, raising taxes on the wealthy tax avoidance buckets like inheritance and capital gains, and even raising the percentage paid by eventual beneficiaries. But not privitization. Never privatization. For all its failings and blemishes, I would trust the Feds more than any private for-profit company with my retirement money.

 

[mpruet]

re: "That seems to be one of the key things that you and many others have been asking for." - NO, NO, NO. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have NOT been saying benefits need to be raised. My goal is much more simple. Just keep SS as it is. A safe and secure retirement fund handled exclusively by the government. If its funds do not meet the needs, I would be open to means testing, raising taxes on the wealthy tax avoidance buckets like inheritance and capital gains, and even raising the percentage paid by eventual beneficiaries. But not privitization. Never privatization. For all its failings and blemishes, I would trust the Feds more than any private for-profit company with my retirement money.

Ok, that’s fair. But I’m sure that you realize that SS is being funded directly or indirectly by private industry.

 

[bullfrog !]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t it Biden that got everyone in Congress to state in no uncertain terms that cuts to Social Security were off the table? So far has Biden vetoed any bill that made it to his desk? Did he sign several bills that improved infrastructure and benefited people that needed some cheaper prescription drugs? Did he not state he would close the border under certain conditions if that bill had passed and asked for what most Border Patrol Associations ( that supported Trump in the last election ) requested and supported? I don’t know much about international politics but I do know we can’t isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and Russia and China are not our friends nor support Freedom as we have had it develop in this country. His past record was not to my liking as far as unions were concerned but he did stand on a picket line and support organized labor this last year which no other president has done. So far in this term he has indicated he supports a woman’s right to protect her health from government intervention even though his religious beliefs are in conflict with the will of the majority of women. Only thing that has disappointed me is Congress refuses to discuss and put bills that need to pass on the floor for a vote. Biden really isn’t the problem, in fact he has accomplished more than I expected without much consideration from Congress. Just saying this is how I see it.

 

[user 22017]

... Russia and China are not our friends nor support Freedom as we have had it develop in this country.

They are not our enemies.

 

[Gr8ful]

They are not our enemies.

The citizens of both countries I don't have any issue with but both governments & military are not our friends just as Bullfrog says.

 

[dhuff]

Also... the witness to the accused Biden graft, was arrested ... he was lying his face off. So Biden wasn't lining his pockets. OTOH there are other politicians that certainly used their position to "line their pockets" ... eh?

But, but...Hunter's laptop!!?! There must be something there

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^pay attention, there are many families in politics, always have been. Billions are more than millions. Vote for people that make laws that the majority of people in this country want to see enacted realizing even compromised laws can be amended to make workable but must first be debated and voted on to be made law. Vote for people that support the Constitution and keep church and state separate. If present Representatives are not working and voting to pass laws vote them out. Pretty much my guide lines but I was inspired by being around people that debated those issues for generations like Simon Kenton, Daniel Boone, Henry Clay and Sargent Alvin York. It amazes me the same people in the same area have voted for Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell! I guess people just get fed up with the lack of progress and vote for who ever causes the most problems! Lol!!!

 

[user 22017]

The citizens of both countries I don't have any issue with but both governments & military are not our friends just as Bullfrog says.

I disagree, but this thread is about social security. *cough* Bullfrog *cough*

 

[RonDean]

Ok, that’s fair. But I’m sure that you realize that SS is being funded directly or indirectly by private industry.

Everything is ultimately funded by consumers, citizens, or workers - whichever word suits the conversation. Take away those and you have no wealth left.

 

[Happy Camper]

This is an article on social security that is interesting. And I generally agree with.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shareholder-once-asked-warren-buffett-120000123.html

 

[RonDean]

This is an article on social security that is interesting. And I generally agree with.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shareholder-once-asked-warren-buffett-120000123.html

Good article and one I mostly agree with. And I would prefer raising the age or means testing or any number of other solutions over privatization. But, it does make me want to ask this question >

What exactly is the motivation for wanting people to work until they are older? Punishment for outliving when they would have died in 1937? Does our society really need more aging workers? NO?

If it is only about the cost of SS, I would suggest simply adding more money to the fund as we continue to live longer making more sense to me. If someone had posed that question to me when I was making money, I would have agreed. It's not like we are made to quit against our will unless we are commercial airline pilots or something like that. There are now many people whose retirement income allows them to do volunteer work or even start over at a labor of love instead of having to do something just to pay the bills. Maybe have a somewhat happier golden years.

 

[wanderlust]

They are not our enemies.

Government of both China and Russia (and Iran) work diligently to make world safer for autocracies. They abuse rule-based system of global trade and make schenigans to hurt democracies. If they could, they WOULD destroy liberal democracies. The only thing stopping them is that their economies are less productive. I understand russian, and can follow their propaganda. It is very sneaky and creative. They use people who want to help, and subvert them. They study the disagreements we have in USA and are trying hard to make the differences harder. And they invest a lot of money in it. Invest in public intellectuals, they call them "useful idiots". And are ready to work for DECADES on it, and spend millions. Some stuff, you have no idea that it was injected to USA culture is russian propaganda, like the term "politically correct".