Safe place to put propane tanks in van

[MrNoodly]

When the service valve on the top of the bottle is closed, By design the bottle is able to vent! if the temperature is high enough to raise the pressure in the bottle. How high a temperature does the inside of a van become if you don't constantly move to cooler climes or shady areas? Can you always insure your van is not in the sun? Better to take precautions.

If it's that hot, then you probably have doors and windows open. Can't vent much better than that.

 

[DrJean]

hahaha   Yep normally I would have relied upon other people's common sense.  I learned in the 80s as more and more city dwellers who were leading scout troops had NO "common sense" about outdoor living that one just couldn't rely upon that any more...in most areas.  (In fact, millennials have no critical thinking skills...just a fact, in general, it has been purposely avoided so they can't identify a problem and surely have no idea how to formulate a solution...but I digress.)



Worse case scenario, someone left their cake out in the van without complete shut down and falls asleep...propane is heavier than air so open windows won't assist much with a bed close to the floor. (Which is why a drop hole is usually incorporated in the floor).

No sweat off my brow for anyone choosing what they do.  I just like to be sure people are making informed decisions.  In fact, I might not even have the complete or most correct or relevant information but if it spurs someone to seek that out on their own, my job is done.

 

[LeeRevell]

Some vans do have venting incorporated in the body down low. My Dodge Grand Caravan (Gen 4) has vents at the floor in the rear. I can feel cool air flowing there in the winter when sleeping.
My 1988 Ford E150 Conversion Van has a rear AC system in the lower right rear. I am about to rip out all factory AC gear in the van, and may be able to set up a low vent there. As I also plan to put the batteries and 20lb. propane tank there, I hope to take care of all the venting in one swell foop. Side windows have the lower screened sliders, and eventually a roof vent fan will go in. Venting will not be an issue.

 

[Sameer]

Like Bob, the majority of people that ....'actually live in a van'... carry their propane bottles inside with no problem. If outside temperatures are a problem then you're living in the wrong place at the wrong time of year. I carry two barbecue size propane tanks and a case of butane canisters inside my van for the past 5 years. All the van dwelling Old-Timers, I know, do this as well with no problems.

 

[TrainChaser]

I am planning to install a marine deck plate in the rear floor of my van (when I get one), and have a roof vent.  Parked in the sun, the hot air can rise through the roof vent, and any leaking propane can flow out the hole in the floor.

I've heard that theory that propane can leak out of a tank in a hot car or from the heat of a fire.  The fire, okay.  But NOT ONE, SINGLE, SOLITARY SITE that I checked can provide an actual temperature level that will cause the tank to leak due to heat.

So... is the hot-car propane explosion just an urban myth perpetuated by the internet?  Even if there's gas leaking, what's going to ignite it?

If anyone has a source for ACTUAL FIGURES, please post.  There's so much misinformation on the web that it drives me crazy.  [Now, where's that dam crazy smilie?]

 

[akrvbob]

If your van is so hot as to cause your tank to spontaneously vent, it's too hot for you to be inside it and live. Those temperatures will kill you before the propane does.

Besides you all seem to think the valve just opens and you have 5 gallons of propane in the van. No, its a spring controlled valve if there is too much pressure it will slightly open up and it will hiss until the pressure is reduced and the spring closes it again. You'll smell it and hear it, no big deal. About the same amount as would come out by taking a green bottle on or off.

Because is is tremendously hot in the van, there will be an abundance of ventilation and the tiny amount of propane that is released will easily be vented and removed.

If you stay in that heat, it could repeat itself, but there will be no real risk.

 

[DannyB1954]

I think it interesting that the DOT does not allow 1-1/2 lbs of propane to be used as an air conditioning refrigerant because it is flammable, but there are no regulations as to where you can store 20 lbs of the stuff.

 

[Wanderer]

Interesting discussion here. For me, I carry 3 20# bottles... 2 in the rear and 1 behind the drivers seat. If the van goes up in flames, doesn't matter, I have liability only, have to buy another van...I'd warn the fire crews though, before they started working it....

Oh, have rubber straps circled in the handles. In case of hard stop, but the good thing is being in such a vehicle and watching what's happening ahead so as to know to slow early..

Funniest part of getting them filled was the filler once said "Um..ah, that's not legal" (As I was putting them in my van) and I replied "Do you own or drive this van? If not, then why worry?" She shrugged and followed me inside as I paid...

 

[djkeev]

Good thread.
Propane use is going to be a compromise somehow, no matter what tank you choose.

Propane fumes/venting is very real and must be taken into consideration.

For an RV the under chassis mount is a space saving although expense "proper" option.

Filling an under chassis tank can be at time problematic, it's exposed to dirt and road grime, you need to almost get under the unit (fine on a Sunny day, not so good in a Wintry slushy mess), not all refill stations are set up to fill an RV so you limit your refill options.

A 5 gallon/20 lb BBQ tank is inexpemse to buy (you probably have an extra already for grilling), easy to have refilled or swap for a filled one at any store USA.
The down side is you mount it outside and risking possible impact damage and the risks that come from a damaged leaking propane tank.
Or you take up valuable and very finite interior space to store a tank of propane.
If stored inside it needs to be easily accessed for use and refilling.

You don't want a heavy steel projectile to come flying forward and bash you in the back of the head during an emergency stop or an accident.
IF the unit vents, the fumes must have a way to fall out of the Van onto the ground and be blown away rather than lie upon the floor waiting patiently for a spark.

I firmly believe that an under chassis tank to be the #1 safest choice.
BUT......

I do see the pluses of using a 20lb tank.

As I build up my Class B unit, propane will be part of it.
If I were to opt for a 20lb tank I would build a secure designated storage compartment with venting provisions. It need not be crush proof steel but simply an air tight box with controlled ventilation.

I Stumbled upon this link, it looks like an excellent DIY 20lb tank storage solution, once you embrace the concept of carrying such a tank inside. This design minimizes the risk factors to a level that even I can live with.

I Cannot embrace the steel propane tank in a milk crate bungeed to the front seat. A milk crate is fine to steady a unit upright for transport to get refilled, but it is not OK for extended highway travel.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Vehicles/PMRV/Propane/Propane.htm

Storage box



Showing vent hole



Dave

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I think it interesting that the DOT does not allow 1-1/2 lbs of propane to be used as an air conditioning refrigerant because it is flammable, but there are no regulations as to where you can store 20 lbs of the stuff.

Actually, the regulations concerning this are not DOT but rather part of the National Fire Code.  Specifically part 1192.  Unfortunately, the National Fire Protection Association makes a good chunk of money publishing the code in books, and therefore there is nowhere online you can find the info for free.

 

[djkeev]

Actually, the regulations concerning this are not DOT but rather part of the National Fire Code.  Specifically part 1192.  Unfortunately, the National Fire Protection Association makes a good chunk of money publishing the code in books, and therefore there is nowhere online you can find the info for free.

They aren't the bad guys you know. 
The sales of their codes finances their testing and development of codes intended to keep you and I As safe as possible in a dangerous world. 

http://catalog.nfpa.org/NFPA-1192-Standard-on-Recreational-Vehicles-2015-Edition-P1417.aspx

Dave

 

[ccbreder]

 

[djkeev]

Being in NJ this story came up on the morning news. But, with no fire and no official cause of the explosion ...... Not sure if it applies to propane tanks just yet.
Though I do suspect that propane was the cause, probably a leaking connection inside. 

Dave

 

[MrNoodly]

"Um..ah, that's not legal" (As I was putting them in my van)...

Yeah, so when people get 20# tanks filled for their barbecue grills, or buy them from the cage in front of the convenience store, none of them carry the tanks home in their vehicles?

 

[Trebor English]

- clip -
Though I do suspect that propane was the cause, probably a leaking connection inside. 
- clip -

Maybe they were cooking meth, not hot dogs.  News report said no fire, no injuries.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

They aren't the bad guys you know. 
The sales of their codes finances their testing and development of codes intended to keep you and I As safe as possible in a dangerous world. 

http://catalog.nfpa.org/NFPA-1192-Standard-on-Recreational-Vehicles-2015-Edition-P1417.aspx

Dave

I didn't say they were, Dave.  It was just an explanation as to why I couldn't post a link to support what I was saying.

 

[Mobilesport]

I know to be up to code there is'nt supposed to be no propane lines or hoses inside the van except for very short runs up through the floor to the appliance , then in case you have a leak the propane drops down from the appliance and out of the vehicle floor , I know most people just bungee cord a Propane tank inside the van and then run a buddy 
heater which is the equivalant to a open flame which is stupid ,stupid ,stupid , but its ok because they,ve been doing it for 15 years , Roll eyes
Also the high pressure side is supposed to be in the box vented to the outdoors , the 
low pressure lines should run under the van and pop up under the appliance.
On my propex furnace the copper line only comes into the van about 7 inches and feeds 
directly into the Propex furnace , that 7 inch line also has a small sealed box around it the vents to the outdoors down thru the very hole that the copper line comes in.
The propex does'nt have a exposed flame , the heat comes out the duct.

 

[johnny b]

Having watched the Mythbusters' several episodes on propane tanks, I feel fine transporting and using 20 and 30 pound tanks.
A little common sense and attention to detail keeping them physically secured and leak free is all that's needed.


In one episode they built a shed, put in a bbq grill with 20# tank, then stuffed the shed with firewood and lit er up. That tank sat in a raging inferno for several minutes before the safety valve popped and then there was a blowtorch effect that burned until the tank emptied...no explosion.
In another test they tried to duplicate the James Bond scene where he shoots a 100# tank and it blows sky high.
With a pistol, the bullet just dented the tank...no penetration. A rifle round (30.06) went thru the tank causing it to vent thru the holes...no fire.
Subsequent rifle shots with tracer and incendiary rounds had the same results...no fire.
They finally had to use a Dillon "mini gun" (electric gatling gun-3000 rounds per minute) loaded with incendiary rounds to get the tank to explode....boy did that look like a fun day....it's good to have a Discovery Channel Budget!

This is not to say propane tanks are 100% safe in all situations...but then neither is gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, kerosene, or even wood for cooking and heating. If you use electric and get a short or loose connection, you can get a fire.

All aspects of life involve compromise here and there....we makes our choices and takes our chances.

Do what feels best for YOU.

(I have 2 large Camp Chef stoves, a 2 burner and a 3 burner totaling 150,000 btu's, plus a single high pressure turkey fryer @ 160,000 btu's, 2 - 30# tanks and 3 - 20# tanks. I've made several different hose assemblies for 'y' connection and extended lengths. I keep a spray bottle of soapy water handy for frequent leak testing, and always have a fire extinguisher at hand.)

 

[johnny b]

Actually, the regulations concerning this are not DOT but rather part of the National Fire Code.  Specifically part 1192.  Unfortunately, the National Fire Protection Association makes a good chunk of money publishing the code in books, and therefore there is nowhere online you can find the info for free.

And of course the 'world' comes to their 'solution' for refrigerant....

Shit canning all HFCs and replacing with HFO-1234yf.

Only problem is that it's flammable....and they've known this since 2012 when Mercedes had a fire under the hood due to refrigerant leak while testing.
Oh yeah....also 10 times more costly!

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/new-climate-friendlier-coolant-has-catch-its-flammable/

[So....future van dwellers will have flammable propane in the back, flammable refrigerant under the hood, and if ya got a rooftop AC, yer surrounded!]

Oh My  

 

[highdesertranger]

as far as not being able to find the exact temp a tank off gases is the variables. an overfilled tank will off gas at a much lower temp than an almost empty tank.

the propane place by me will not refill your tanks if they see you take them out of the passenger compartment or the trunk. highdesertranger