Recommendation for a Van rig for solo traveller?

[DeemounUS]

Hi guys,

I was reviewing RVs/Vans for a past couple of month and really want to make a purchase decision finally, here is the list of vehicles I came up for now and my thoughts:
I'm in CA and my budget was initially around 10K (and I still want to limit it to that point, but seems like not that much choice around)

Chevy Express 1500: 
Pros: reliable, enough space, very common vehicle
Cons: price is not that good (15K+) unless it's 100K+ vehicle, low-roof

Ram Promaster 1500:
Pros: new platform, FWD, lots of cargo space, roof is more like mid-roof
Cons: price is huge, not much vehicles in the area, choice is limited, reliability is very questionable, repairs are expensive

Then I started researching mini-vans and found NV200, Astro and Transit Connect (before 2011 model year) where prices are much more reasonable and less milage, but..

Is this lack of space in Mini-Vans going to make it a big deal in full-time conditions?
From your experience (if someone had) was it big change going from mini-van to full-size van or vice-versa? Looking at the builds around seems like it's quite possible to have a bed+sink and drawers there. 

And question about NV200 specifically if somebody knows: How are CVT's on Nissans? I have CVT on my Honda Civic and it's great so far, but no idea how Nissan doing there.

Just asking for opinion here, appreciate any response.

 

[shadow]

You should be able to find some decent rv`s in your price range. Most everything in California is over priced, so look out of state for better prices on what you are looking for.

 

[DannyB1954]

A Dodge that has never seen road salt, or a Chevy. Dodge used a unitized construction. If the body rots, it is also the frame. Fords had engine problems for a number of years. The new Dodge is actually a Fiat. Maybe things have changed, but they used to be junk.
Only you can determine how much space you will need.

 

[DeemounUS]

Thanks for answers! My concern regarding buying out of California is that you never know if it will get smogged and registered in Cali, plus paying additional sales tax, as I understand?

How to be sure that if I buy vehicle outside of the state it would be registered fine?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Thanks for answers! My concern regarding buying out of California is that you never know if it will get smogged and registered in Cali, plus paying additional sales tax, as I understand?

How to be sure that if I buy vehicle outside of the state it would be registered fine?

You didn't really tell us what it is you are trying to do.

Is this van for traveling, or are you trying to live in one while staying in one area?  Do you need to stay in CA because of a job, or something?

As far as full size vs minivan, do you want to live IN a van, or out of it?

With a full size van, you could stay in it in inclement weather in some comfort, do a little cooking, even use a 5 gal pail as a toilet.

With a minivan, you can sleep in it, but pretty much need to exit to do anything else, which will mean cooking outside or eating take out, spending your days in libraries and malls, and so on.

 

[DeemounUS]

You didn't really tell us what it is you are trying to do.

Is this van for traveling, or are you trying to live in one while staying in one area?  Do you need to stay in CA because of a job, or something?

As far as full size vs minivan, do you want to live IN a van, or out of it?

With a full size van, you could stay in it in inclement weather in some comfort, do a little cooking, even use a 5 gal pail as a toilet.

With a minivan, you can sleep in it, but pretty much need to exit to do anything else, which will mean cooking outside or eating take out, spending your days in libraries and malls, and so on.

Yep, I'm in CA for job purposes. However, I'm planning to quit and start my journey, as well as finding some other way to earn (but that's a different story).
I'm planning to be as much as possible outside and probably Mini-Van will force me into it even more.

Why I'm thinking about mini-van right now? Hm.. I think because of highly competitive CA market, where you can either but 200K miles Chevy Express or Nissan NV200/Promaster/Transit for about $10K, but at least it will be much less milage. And seems like it's more stealth to be in mini-Van?

Anyway, to put it short: I think I'm just choosing for too long and it feels like there is nothing around for the right price.
Does anyone has eBay van purchase experience? I can order something from other state and then just drive it here, but again - thinking about problems registering it here.

 

[OutdoorFT]

I think youre too set on CA approving your vehicle than finding a vehicle for your needs. If you plan on quitting your job, why keep it in CA?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Exactly.  Why remain a resident of CA?

As a full time RVer, you could become a "resident" of an RV friendly state such as FL, NV, TX, or SD; which would have many advantages, not the least which would be NOT paying income taxes to CA.

http://www.technomadia.com/2012/07/...stics-domicile-mail-taxes-banking-and-voting/

 

[Charlotte's Web]

... My concern regarding buying out of California is that you never know if it will get smogged and registered in Cali, plus paying additional sales tax, as I understand?

How to be sure that if I buy vehicle outside of the state it would be registered fine?

I'm in CA also, & have similar concerns/conflicts.  CA prices are higher for everything are higher & smog certification a serious issue.  Check the CA DMV site for details.   If I understand correctly, you will *not* have to pay sales tax twice, just CA sales tax when you register.

I've learned that it may be possible to save a little $ when transferring title by shopping around a bit from one CA town to another.  Pick the DMV for your title transfer based on town/city with lowest sales tax.  Just google the tax rate...

I would hesitate to buy out of state, due to the smog issue, unless you had spent some $$$ on a pre-purchase inspection & felt confident.  If the savings were great enough it might be worth the risk.  I wouldn't recommend this if you're buying a really old engine that's not been a daily driver recently...

Check the CA DMV site...

 

[drysailor]

Thanks for answers! My concern regarding buying out of California is that you never know if it will get smogged and registered in Cali, plus paying additional sales tax, as I understand?

How to be sure that if I buy vehicle outside of the state it would be registered fine?

I think that 2012(?) & newer vehicles are usually 50-state smog legal. There will be a sticker in the engine compartment that states what it complies with - that will be either EPA, or it will say California specifically or 50-state.
Any state that has sales tax will charge you that to register it there.
The vast majority of vans that I saw in Ca seemed to be at large dealers near the big cities. Some good buys on CL, cars.com, etc etc as well, but many vans seem to be purchased new by businesses, and then sold off used in bunches.
I had an 86 Chev 1-ton pass van for a while, it was a real P-O-S. Bought a 97 GMC Safari 8-pass new, kept it 14 years, no real problems.
Have used Fords exclusively at work for 30 years, no real problems but the late 80s/early90s always seemed to have some small issue or other. But after that era, no problem.
The Chev/GMC in the 80s & 90s were bad enough that many fleets just swore off them. Consumer Reports put the late 90s to 2006 Chev Express vans on their "used cars to avoid" list. They don't rate full size vans anymore, so it's been difficult to evaluate the Ford spark plug issue, since most of what is written about it comes from individuals, not organizations.
 Have used Fords personally since 2000, no problems at all. I think the Ford spark plug "issue" on the pre-2008 engines is related largely to DIY mechanical work, enabled by weak design in that era that they have allegedly fixed - but I wouldn't buy one that wasn't dealer maintained.
I think the newer Chev/GMC have the most desirable drivetrains with the 6 spd trans and the easiest-to-convert interiors.

 

[frater secessus]

Ram Promaster 1500:
Pros: new platform, FWD, lots of cargo space, roof is more like mid-roof
Cons: price is huge, not much vehicles in the area, choice is limited, reliability is very questionable, repairs are expensive

In the last month my search are starting to show 2014/2015 Promasters on the used market below $20k.   That puts it in the range of an Express with a high roof added in. I'm sure you realize this, but the 1500 series will get you the 136" wheelbase;  the 159" is >= 2500.    Even if you don't need the extra floor space more solar can fit on the roof of the longer wheelbase PM.  At current densities the 159" can fit about 900w (3x300w) + roof vent.  The 136" can fit 600w (2x300w) + roof vent.  That's more solar than most people are considering but throwing it in just in case.

The diesel Promasters will be pricey to service, and probably difficult to get serviced.  Both the 3L diesel and the automated manual trans are peculiar to this vehicle in north america.  I would expect dealer familiarity to be very, very low.  Note:  the 3L is not the same 3L as in the pickups.  It's a great engine used for heavier work vehicles in Europe but this is the only application here. 

On the other hand, the gas model is a vanilla 3.6L pentastar which is a very common and generally-respected motor.  Pulls from wrecking yards are as low as $1500.  The trans on the gas model is the [font=Arial, sans-serif]62TE used in a many FCA vehicles like minivans.  The internal gearing has been changed for the heavier vehicle but otherwise it's vanilla, too.[/font]

I've started putting together some Promaster info for folks who are considering that platform.

 

[DeemounUS]

In the last month my search are starting to show 2014/2015 Promasters on the used market below $20k.   That puts it in the range of an Express with a high roof added in. I'm sure you realize this, but the 1500 series will get you the 136" wheelbase;  the 159" is >= 2500.    Even if you don't need the extra floor space more solar can fit on the roof of the longer wheelbase PM.  At current densities the 159" can fit about 900w (3x300w) + roof vent.  The 136" can fit 600w (2x300w) + roof vent.  That's more solar than most people are considering but throwing it in just in case.

The diesel Promasters will be pricey to service, and probably difficult to get serviced.  Both the 3L diesel and the automated manual trans are peculiar to this vehicle in north america.  I would expect dealer familiarity to be very, very low.  Note:  the 3L is not the same 3L as in the pickups.  It's a great engine used for heavier work vehicles in Europe but this is the only application here. 

On the other hand, the gas model is a vanilla 3.6L pentastar which is a very common and generally-respected motor.  Pulls from wrecking yards are as low as $1500.  The trans on the gas model is the [font=Arial, sans-serif]62TE used in a many FCA vehicles like minivans.  The internal gearing has been changed for the heavier vehicle but otherwise it's vanilla, too.[/font]

I've started putting together some Promaster info for folks who are considering that platform.

ProMaster is a nice platform and I was almost about to buy one and then I though.. depreciation value of it is crazy. You buy it for 20K and couple years later it would be.. $13-14K at best? And I saw so many reports regarding that servicing this vehicles is a pain, it's a new platform and so on.

On the other hand, what about a typical Chevy Express 1500? If I buy one with 120-150K milage (of course if it was serviced properly), how much life left in those vehicles? I've read that many people say that those last 200K miles at most and then it's a toast. Is it true, many things will need replacement at that point? I plan to drive 30K+ miles a year.

 

[ArtW]

No, they aren't toast at 200k, if well taken care of, there will be some repairs here and there, and they can nickel and dime you to death, but if you stay on top of the maintenance and don't abuse them, modern Chevy's last a long time
the Promaster has, as I understand, a Fiat transmission, I'd expect to replace a transmission in a brand new Promaster before i would in a well cared for 100K Chevy

 

[frater secessus]

The diesel PM has the trans from the Ducato. The gasser has the normal Chrysler 6spd.

Personally I would expect the automated manual in the diesel to outlast an American auto, but service (if needed) would be horrific.

 

[frater secessus]

ProMaster is a nice platform and I was almost about to buy one and then I though.. depreciation value of it is crazy. You buy it for 20K and couple years later it would be.. $13-14K at best? And I saw so many reports regarding that servicing this vehicles is a pain, it's a new platform and so on.

There are reasons not to buy a PM but depreciation isn't one of them.  This is why I pointed out that I was just now starting to see some max age (2014) used ones come in under $20k.  Edmunds shows the average vehicle depreciating 42% by the end of the third year.  The PMs, based on my price tracking, has been falling 29% in the same timeframe.

The platform in the US is new;  the platform in Europe predates the European Transit.   The parts of the gas model that are new are off-the-shelf Chrysler parts.  I'm not a fanboy and I am not trying to sell PMs, but I do want people to make their decisions based on the most complete info available.

 

[frater secessus]

No, they aren't toast at 200k, if well taken care of, there will be some repairs here and there, and they can nickel and dime you to death, but if you stay on top of the maintenance and don't abuse them, modern Chevy's last a long time

Agreed. If I was going for a standard roof van the Chevy/GMC van with the G80 diff would be my choice.

My little Ford Ranger rolled over 300k a few months ago and still gets 26.1MPG.   I will admit the clutch plates are getting a little thin.    I credit this longevity to driving, as Click and Clack used to say, "like I want it to last forever."

 

[ArtW]

Yes, driving habits matter
Top Gear did a neat little demonstration of just how much driving habits affect fuel mileage
They took a Prius, and had the driver of the Prius, on their test track, try to lose another driver in a BMW (3 series, IIRC) who was instructed to drive just hard enough to keep up with the Prius
Guess which car got better mileage driven that way?
And as Click and Clack would tell you, driving for good fuel mileage is driving for longgevity

 

[DeemounUS]

Thanks everyone!
One more question - what do you think about passenger vans (with windows) camper conversion?
I understand that windows there might be a problem, but at the same time it's easy to paint black and rip off seats/interior.
I especially thinking about Chevy Express 3500 LS, seems like milage there is not that good? 11-16 mpg is what I see in specs?

I've seen that people say about the advantages of window vans:
1) Lower initial price
2) Insurance rate is cheaper (comparing to cargo van)
3) Blends better in neighborhoods?

Am I missing something?

 

[mayble]

ProMaster is a nice platform and I was almost about to buy one and then I though.. depreciation value of it is crazy. You buy it for 20K and couple years later it would be.. $13-14K at best?

Depreciation is only an issue if you want/need to sell or refinance.  If you plan to keep something forever then it doesn't matter what someone else thinks it's worth.

 

[drysailor]

Thanks everyone!
One more question - what do you think about passenger vans (with windows) camper conversion?
I understand that windows there might be a problem, but at the same time it's easy to paint black and rip off seats/interior.
I especially thinking about Chevy Express 3500 LS, seems like milage there is not that good? 11-16 mpg is what I see in specs?

I've seen that people say about the advantages of window vans:
1) Lower initial price
2) Insurance rate is cheaper (comparing to cargo van)
3) Blends better in neighborhoods?

Am I missing something?

There's not that much difference in MPG among the full size vans that have real towing ability. But it's not like a 2-week vacation where you might want to get in all the driving you can. The newer Euro-centric vans claim better MPG, but are far more costly than used Big 3 vans & may not be that useful for towing, if that happens to be in your plans.. Many feel MPG concerns are overrated. On your other points:
1. I don't think window vans are cheaper. You might check kbb.com, but I saw about a $2-3K increase of window over cargo. Window vans often come with amenities that cargo vans don't - I just couldn't find "gently" used cargo vans, so I went window. Many of the used cargo vans I found were really beat up, and none had any reliable maintenance records.
2. insurance should be based mostly on the value of the vehicle, your record, and where/how you're using it (unless there's some factor connected to    the 'commercial" nature of cargo vans). There are few insurance companies that will insure an owner conversion as an RV.
3. blending in? Think a slightly dirty cargo van would be better.
Take some more time, keep reading thru the forums.