Questions about buying and building a BOX VAN into a full-time traveling tiny home…

[Gr8ful]

One more time! It's titled, tagged & insured now as a motor home. Motor homes come from the factory just like ambo's with no rear or no body at all on class As. They're called cutaways on the orig title. It took 30 minutes at the licence bureu to convert it to a motor home & get a title & registration then 10 minutes on the phone to get insurance. I just west to the LB & nicely asked what I needed to do & they were very helpful. Box trucks are the same way, only the chassis comes from the factory to a body dealer who put's a box, flatbed, rollback, crane, etc on. I ran a lumber co & bought plenty of trucks over the years. Maybe it's your attitude causing you trouble. BTW your plan of passing off a totally changed class A as stock won't work as the Ins co will want pictures & it may be even then it may be listed as a salvage title if the former owner claimed it. We tried 1 V10 gas on a 1 ton & got 5 mpg empty or loaded. Got a 5.9 112v Cummins & got 24 mpg. Hauled 20,000+ on the truck & trailer &still beat 20 mpg. Try sucking on sweet pickles instead of dills!

 

[magentawave]

Do you do a lot of stealth parking in neighborhoods (in the U.S. I presume)?? I would rate that FAR less important than lower insurance and body-on-frame construction (especially on poor roads or off-road)

I stealth camp in nice beach areas in Southern California all the time in my built out Sienna. Doubt I could pull that off with a plain box van.

 

[magentawave]

As far as adding 4wd I'd pass & put a "Locker" on the drive axle. Most 4WDs when hung up only 1 front & 1 rear wheel spin. With a locker you engage both rear wheels from inside when you get stuck. Much cheaper & works well.

Hmm, that’s a good idea. Is it a big deal to install a locker on the rear wheel of a box van? Also, Dodge Promasters are front wheel drive so I wonder if it’s possible to put a locker on them? Seems like both FRONT wheels getting power could be a great trade-off vs the cost to install 4WD on a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Just so people are aware we had a forum member built a Class C with water damage and used insulation core panels covered with Poor Man’s Fiberglass for a supper light weight water proof box on the back that turned out really nice. I didn’t connect with him but did see the rig at the RTR a few years back. Seems to me at the time he had less than $1000 in materials. Also some states I believe require you apply for a new title if you modify more than a certain portion of the factory body. I ran into that building fiberglass dune buggies a few years back. Insurance companies frown on modified or one of a kind vehicles. Lots of things you think wouldn’t be a problem are if you intend to get it insured to live full time in as well. I would check with people on the schoolies forums about insurance issues they have had with building and insuring their builds.

I am well experienced fiberglassing boats and surfboards, etc. using both epoxy and polyester resin. Can you please describe what this “poor man fiberglassing” is?

 

[wayne49]

https://www.instructables.com/Poor-Mans-Fiberglass-make-nearly-anything-weatherp/

"There are two ways to do PMF, with one better for covering foam, and the other a little bit cheaper, and better for covering wood.

To show the two slightly different processes that can be used, I've broken it into two different sections. The first will be called Foamie, this is the best process to use over foam projects. Most of the people reading this will be looking for how to cover a foam camper or boat.

The second section starts on page 7, it shows the process I used to cover my plywood teardrop. It doesn't use any glue to attach the fabric to the wood. Instead a heavy coat of paint is used to stick the fabric, just like the old timers did."

 

[magentawave]

https://www.instructables.com/Poor-Mans-Fiberglass-make-nearly-anything-weatherp/

"There are two ways to do PMF, with one better for covering foam, and the other a little bit cheaper, and better for covering wood.

To show the two slightly different processes that can be used, I've broken it into two different sections. The first will be called Foamie, this is the best process to use over foam projects. Most of the people reading this will be looking for how to cover a foam camper or boat.

The second section starts on page 7, it shows the process I used to cover my plywood teardrop. It doesn't use any glue to attach the fabric to the wood. Instead a heavy coat of paint is used to stick the fabric, just like the old timers did."

That was very interesting. As a former cabinetmaker I used Titebond glue everyday but never would have thought to use it for that purpose.

Did the guy you saw at the RTR that built the box for his RV use the sheets with Titebond 2 method? Any idea how many years before you saw it that he had done the build?

 

[bullfrog !]

It has been quite a while since I saw it and it was a recent build I believe using a 1 1/2”x1 1/2” framed 1 1/2” foam insulation panels. I like PMF because it is cheap and simple both to build with and repair. I have used cheap damaged hollow core doors and wooden dowels to build boxes up to 7’x12’x6’ to use as camping trailers, truck toppers and a general purpose enclosed trailer. Floors and tops generally I use 3/8” to 3/16” plywood to insure equal weight distribution when walking or installing solar panels glued to the top of the interior doors. Insuring everything is water proof is key and sealing any holes you make like windows but if you do have a problem drilling from the inside and filling the hollow portion of the interior door with spray foam makes it super strong. I’m more about function than good looks so this works for me. Regular fiberglass if done right is stronger but much more heavy and a real pain for me to work with. My creations have lasted more than 10 years with a few minor repairs, like when I drove my car into the back wall the tow bar mounts poked two holes in the outer wall. It took about 20 minutes to fix and an hour to dry. I backed the rear top corner straight on into a 3” to 4” cutoff limb which broke off when it hit and put a small 1” tear in the cloth. I just Gorilla taped it and a few months later cleaned and repaired it while putting on a fresh coat of exterior house paint which I did after a few years of use, tnttt.com foamies forum has all you need to know. It cost me at the time about $800 to build my largest box. With todays prices I imagine it would still be less than $1,200. Regular fiberglass would be at least twice as much and much more labor.

 

[rruff]

Regular fiberglass would be at least twice as much and much more labor.

I bought most of my epoxy for $30/gal before covid, but now it's stuck at $60. Titebond II is still only ~$20/gal in bulk, so it's definitely cheaper. In my experiments though, PMF isn't in the same league as FG in tensile, impact resistance, or stiffness... even on a per weight basis. And it creeps really badly under load. If the thing you are building is small and you use thick foam, or you use some wood framing in addition, it can work ok. The worst aspect of building with FG is sanding it.

Neither sticks to XPS foam well at all. I'd recommend using a spiked wallpaper roller to perforate the foam, fill the indentations with glue or epoxy, then add the surface layers. This makes the foam more impact resistant too.

 

[bullfrog !]

PMF definitely works to produce a water tight and fairly strong box if you follow the recommended procedures in the tnttt.com foamies forums. Some wood framing at seams and corners definitely makes it stronger. Very thin plywood glued to one side of the foam then PMF makes it last indefinitely as long as there is no standing water on the roof for example. A rounded or a sloped roof if you are mounting solar panels works well. It isn’t as pretty as well done fiberglass but it is cheaper, easier and quicker. Mine looks like I have an ice dispenser on a trailer as it is white but it does work for me! Lol!!!

 

[Happy Camper]

I can picture a line of disappointed people with coolers walking away from your trailer.

 

[rruff]

Making anything pretty is way too much work for me! I wanted mine to be able to knock branches out of the way with ease, and PMF over foam is much too weak for that. If you have a curve on the roof and a plywood layer that will help a lot with durability and creep.

 

[bullfrog !]

Because the interior doors have a pretty substantial frame around the edges after PMF I have actually broken some pretty large limbs and any damage is usually less than a couple inches on the exterior surface repaired simply with some tape till I get around to permanently fixing it. It ended up working well. Only major problem I ever had was water intrusion through a hole I had cut and forgot to seal. Just drilled a few holes from the inside and filled the area with spray foam. It expanded and deformed the area quite a bit but after that you could hit it with a hammer and not hurt it it was so solid.