Ram ProMasters with 2 major fleets

[Minivanmotoman]

it took Ford 10 years to fix the spark plug problem that they new about in 1999.  that is not an ongoing improvement an ongoing improvement would have been fixed in 2000 or 2001.  highdesertranger

Thank you for pointing out Ford's slow moving ongoing changes. Nobody said it would be fast or to your own personal assessment standards. What would you call it so we could debate the semantics of the"name" and proper time for ongoing improvements? Silly, huh?

It was a general example, all of which you seem to take exception to every single time for every  minute detail you can possibly find. I've let a couple slide recently, but it's time to speak up now.

And take the time from your very busy day to critique. No wonder the membership here on this forum is dropping and many people ask to have their account deleted due to that egotistical approach and attitude. Speculation of course on my part. But maybe I'm right?

Have you nothing better to do than scan the threads for my posts to criticize mundane, pedantic details? What's that T word that comes to mind?

Like Ford's ongoing changes made years later.
It often works that way and you know that being a former dealer mechanic.

That may also be a reason that many don't post on here, the attitude and criticism reducing interactive dialogue instead of encouraging it.


May I remind you that the purpose of the thread was not to criticize my labeling of a valid, general example but to promote open and objective dialogue into the reliabilty of a popular van currently, and in future, for members of this forum.
And kept on topic instead of sniping on pedantic, off topic, irrelevant details.

Anything else is a waste of people's time and self serving, ego spouting. Seems to me I could find a quote on here by Bob Wills himself stating that very same thing. If it hasn't been deleted.

Let's all make our comments beneficial, on topic and helpful to others on here, the purpose of this site and forum. And your way isn't the only, best way. Just because you're the most vocal mod with power, doesn't mean you should brandish it like a weapon.

 

[maki2]

So how is the weather out your way? It is going to warm up to 60 degrees this week in Seattle, great weather for working on my build, not too cold, not too hot.

You know what they say...if the conversation gets a bit "testy"...talk about the weather.

 

[grummy]

^^^ ....Think it was developed with common parts,  structure and similar components for a new, combined model, but not sure of that and if so,  how much, probably a stretch on my part.

Lutz may have had a different van development project going at some point... recall that they were still offering a very old B-Series which was essentially the same underpinnings since 1971 !

BUT... the Promaster is not connected to any common parts from either Daimler's "sprinter" or anything they may have been working on...it's a Fiat platform..... EXCEPT for the 3.6L Pentastar engine and matching FWD transaxle. I would imagine that Chrysler knew quite well that the American buyers would not consider Fiat "power" options, so they had to come up with something.

Given that they had already been convincing people to purchase their full size pickup with that little peanut 3.6L (at least it sounds bigger than a 2.7L Ford) AND claiming up to 7500Lb towing, they figured it would work in that van. Now I have a 2016 T&C with that 3.6L, and frankly, it's kind of wonderful on it's own. FAST bugger at 280+ HP and if I do not use cruise and drive 62-64, I will see close to 35MPG !  BUT...I find it difficult to tow an all aluminum 6x12 cargo trailer unless it is into a dead calm. Part of that is that my mind dislikes the thought of the engine turning 2800-3500 rpm while held in 5th gear.

But, people claim the Promaster does pretty darn good for power and economy by itself. I'd be REAL curious as to how they claim 5000lb towing (the T&C is 3660 IIRC) Would I buy one as a contractor van ? Only if I hauled flowers or marshmallows. If you put 5000lbs in the back of that thing in winter, I wish you well. Front wheel drive as something "special" was one of the biggest mechanical hoaxes ever pulled on the American people (it was all about saving production costs with very little real world advantages to a driver).

Personally, I've been a Chevy guy. LOTS of full size Chev vans over my lifetime, a half dozen Astro's and a couple of Chev Powered, P30 framed Grumman Step Vans. I am REAL interested in what Chev will finally do to "catch up" to the dimensions of the current Van platforms, but somehow.... I think I will be depressed when I get to see it. It will probably be some "European" crap body style. Ugh. All those smaller little vans other than the mini Ford transits are ugly dog ugly.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

^^^ Lutz basically said that all they were left with was the shell after Mercedes sold the company iirc.
If I remember correctly.

In regards to an example of ongoing changes as referred to earlier, here is an article on improvements made to the 2016 Pentastar 3.6l V6 Chrysler engine.
There are ongoing changes for various reasons which may or may not incorporate improved durability reliability aspects requiring various timelines to reach production, from months to years. Generalization, not meant to cover every exception or situation of course.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-n...pentastar-v-6-upgraded-for-2016-ar171092.html

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Not "mundane" or "pedantic" details.
Completely relevant to the discussion at hand, actually.
Though, I agree, it is "time to speak up" now...

Thank you for pointing out Ford's slow moving ongoing changes. Nobody said it would be fast or to your own personal assessment standards. What would you call it so we could debate the semantics of the"name" and proper time for ongoing improvements? Silly, huh?

It was a general example, all of which you seem to take exception to every single time for every  minute detail you can possibly find. I've let a couple slide recently, but it's time to speak up now.

Silly because you ended up showing yourself to be rather poorly informed? Or because the reply did not fit your agenda?
You type in a completely erroneous statement designed to prove my own wrong:

Ongoing improvements are made as can be evidenced in Ford's spark plug correction and numerous other gasket mods for defective intake gaskets in many makes and models. Not as rare as led to be believed by some. When costly Warranty issues arise, they can and will deal with them to correct for cost savings am sure.

...and when HDR calls you on it, you are going to "speak out" on how the forum is going downhill and how others are being picayune? (Actually, HDR forgot to include those "gasket mods" you also referenced...and reveal just when they were applied to the assembly line. Hint: the time is measured in years.)

In my opinion, this entire thread, calling me out with the language/pointed questions you opened with, is little more than a slightly veiled troll in the first place. Had this thread been posted by another person, I may not have been seeing it from a sarcastic point of view. Only...you were the author. You love to tell others how wrong they are. History shows this as clearly as it shows me to be a grumpy bastard. At least have the moxie to own it...you're not exactly one that comes to mind when thinking about who to be considered for the "passive peacemaker award."

The whining about being persecuted is, in your case, rather humorous. You are no victim of bullying here.

Were your questions answered well enough now?
Are there any other answers you need about my experience/previous-warnings on the ProMaster?

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Didn't call you out, referenced twice to your knowledge and experience which I have thanked you twice for in a previous thread. You misperceive my approach and intentions.

"you're to be commended for the effort in helping/ sharing with all on here with your knowledge and experience."

"Once again, your efforts and info are appreciated by many on here am sure. Thx."

Posted by me on your database thread, comment#14, March 10, 2019
There have been NO direct nor disparaging remarks for any of your posts or towards yourself.
This thread was not to critique your previous thread but to see if there was anymore new or recent info which might have been possible without new info from major fleet purchases and exploring that aspect. Nothing new has to come to light and so it stands as you have stated.
Constant analysis and updates of situations that are constantly fluid is a good thing.
And maybe Chrysler with their new chairman will improve things and reliability in the future.
Things to monitor and be aware of which was the sole purpose of the thread. Sorry if you feel attacked based upon your Promaster thread, which I made NO comments on.

 

[IGBT]

I have a 2017 Ford F150 with the dual turbo 2.7L engine and I have no idea what you are talking about.   That thing is insane.   It puts out over 325HP but you could fit it in your pocket.   I have no problems towing a snowmobile trailer with it at 75mph+


The only issue I have had with my Ford is they use tofu for wire insulation and mice like to eat it.  This is a known issue.

 

[B and C]

Another reason to not eat tofu, mice food. LOL

 

[closeanuf]

I hope I don't hurt anyone's tender feelings, but I wouldn't by a podcaster van is because I don't want a front wheel drive van.  Towing a trailer with front wheel drive vehicle doesn't appeal to me.

 

[grummy]

I have a 2017 Ford F150 with the dual turbo 2.7L engine and I have no idea what you are talking about.

If you are referring to my comment, it was simply about the SOUND of comparing a 3.6L in a dinky MINIVAN (or Promaster) to that rather scary number of >>  2.7L in a full size pickup truck.

I get what it is, I get why it works, I get why it has been successful. It just plain old sounds funny to have a 2.7L tiny little V6 under the hood of any one of the modern pickup trucks.... What are they now... Pickup trucks, like 8 FEET wide in the front ?? Seems they get wider and wider every model year.  LoL...

When I think of the size of the old 225 Buick V6 from the mid 60's, that motor would have been puny (dimensionally) under the hood of any year pickup, and that was around 3.6L. The 2.7 is 164ish C.I.

My gosh I am starting to think I could build a bed or shower under the hood next to one of those, but I've never personally seen one. I suppose they have a crate load of plastic covers filling the area or some buyers might wonder what they are paying for when they open the hood.

But seriously, if Ford over time proves that they can keep a 164 cubic inch motor performing in a full size truck for perhaps 400,000 miles like we see with some other brands used for expediting, I'd hope other manufacturers would follow suit. I often thought of putting a GM 3.8L in a van because I always liked them... if you could turbo it... I bet it would work out just fine.

 

[grummy]

I hope I don't hurt anyone's tender feelings, but I wouldn't by a podcaster van is because I don't want a front wheel drive van.  Towing a trailer with front wheel drive vehicle doesn't appeal to me.

I rather dislike it in CARS much less any Truck.... Again, one of the biggest automobile scams put on the American car buyers.

Anyone here old enough to remember the advertising push Detroit hoisted on the people when they found they could save millions of dollars in production costs if they could get American drivers to accept it ? I sure do. Right before those awesome 1980ish Horizons and Citations ? Wow...

And even these days, I still come across the occasional person who attempts to tell me that class 8 trucks (semis) should really be Front Wheel Drive. I no longer bother attempting to explain because some things just cant be fixed.

Again, and back to Promaster, I think it could be doable... IF your going to be using it where it does not snow.

 

[cortttt]

This Fleet owner has found maintenance costs for Promaster just fine - similar to Ford Transit - and much, much lower than the Sprinter. 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal-flaw-mercedes-benz-sprinters-tom-robertson/

 

[gafred]

I have the 2018 159" wb hightop now with 11,000 miles, avg 17.5 mpg.  So far it has been good for me.  Wish the seat height could be decreased and the driver seat was more comfortable, but otherwise I am satisfied.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

In reviewing the information on this web page which i posted earlier,  interesting to note a couple factors.

https://repairpal.com/reliability/ram/promaster+2500

Cost

The average total annual cost for repairs and maintenance on a Ram ProMaster 2500 is $859, compared to an average of $856 for commercial vans and $631 for all vehicle models.

Frequency

Ram ProMaster 2500 owners have to bring their vehicles into a repair shop for unscheduled repairs an average of 0.8 times per year, compared to an average of 0.4 times for commercial vans and 0.4 times for all vehicle models.

Severity

The probability of a repair being a severe or major issue is 15% for the Ram ProMaster 2500, compared to an average of 14% for commercial vans and 11% for all vehicle models.

Repair pal info source

What is the RepairPal Reliability Rating?

The Reliability Rating by RepairPal is a measurement of vehicle dependability based on the cost, frequency, and severity of unscheduled repairs and maintenance. RepairPal combines an extensive proprietary database including millions of vehicle repair invoices with additional automotive statistics and predictive data science to develop the most genuine reliability metric in the industry. The Reliability Rating allows you to research dependability and ownership costs related to unscheduled repairs and maintenance in addition to comparing reliability factors against other vehicles and industry averages. Individual factors contributing to a vehicle's composite Reliability Rating include cost, frequency, and severity.

Seems legit and of value, the information.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Another big benefit for this van is fuel economy. Spoke with some owners and got varied feedback of course due to the fact everyone drives differently.

Was curious as to how good it really is.

FYI, Here's some stats found online from fuelly.com

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/promaster_2500


http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/promaster_3500

It varies widely as well there, some are at 20+ miles per gallon which is great, and other's at 15 mpg which seems low. Of course, if loaded fleet vehicles, will get lower mpg which the data doesn't break down.

 

[cortttt]

That's all good news. Absolutely beats the pants off the GMC Savana I have.

I stepped into a Promaster at the RTR and it was cavernous! Very impressive

 

[cortttt]

My big concern was reliability. I think it was not good in the beginning but it seems to have picked up. If that's so when the time comes it becomes an option for me.

 

[closeanuf]

I'll take my chances with the Express vans over a ten year period.  I wish you all the best with the Dodge.  I can't help but remember what an old man told me one time:  "you don't buy a Dodge, you marry it".

 

[wayne49]

I would not put much into USPS or UPS purchasing decisions for my personal decisions.
At a corporate level deals are made for many reasons, some that have nothing to do with an individual's purchasing decision. Deals made between Board members.
Corporations for some time have been focused only on short term financials, making the next quarterly report look good.

 

[wayne49]

Winter driving is where front wheel drive is best.
I have never towed with front wheel drive.
I drove thousands of miles a year, some times in torrential rains, snows, etc. Front wheel drive was the safest.
I could always determine how much traction the steering, drive, braking wheels had at any moment by a slight press on the gas pedal. I would ease up if the traction was iffy.