Questions about Ford 4.2 V6 and 5.4 V8 in conversion van

[bowlingballhead]

Hello!  I'm not looking to start living in a van long-term yet, but would like to switch from my 96 Jeep Cherokee/tent camping to a conversion van.  Would be traveling from northern Minnesota to San Diego living in the van on the way there and back, and also for going to concerts/metal festivals in the Midwest.  Right now I have my eye on these two 2000 Ford E-150s, one with the 6, the other with the Triton 8:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/cto/5153759327.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/cto/5137765054.html

I've seen people recommend the Dodge 318 and the Chevy 5.3, but I'm diggin' on both of these.  They both look to be in excellent shape, and the ads appear to have been put together by people who take pride in their machines.  Problem is, I've read that both of these motors are junk, have several known problems, and on top of that, the V6 I'm guessing will be pretty underpowered trying to move all of that heft around.  Wondering if anyone here would like to share their experience with these, or Dodge and Chevy vans as well.  I've never had a van, but have always wanted one since the A-Team, lol.  Thanks!

 

[eDJ_]

Speaking to the Chrysler 318 V8,  it's hard to beat them.  Good solid record.

As for the Fords,  the 351 W & 400 M are work horses.  It's one of the reasons the Econoline Van equipped
with them has such a good name.

As for the Ford V6,  there is a guy who has a Ford wrecking yard down the road from me and he tells me
he can't keep the V6's on his yard and those V8's I mentioned above....he isn't able to sell them at nearly
the same rate as the V6's. 

As for the Triton's and that V10 which I've seen some Van's equipped with....I don't know if I'd go there
after talking to some of the people who have had them.

This may be helpful in your shopping:

V8-powered Fords from the 2004 to 2008 model years

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/04/ford-triton-v8-engine-spark-plug-tsb/index.htm

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Well, I agree that the V-6 is probably underpowered.  I would also expect that they would have to work so much harder that it would negate any mpg advantage they would have over a V-8 in a lighter car.

The principle problem with these engines is the spark plug.  See this article:  http://www.fordproblems.com/trends/triton-engine/spark-plug-ejection.shtml

I don't know what your budget is, but if I REALLY liked the V-8 one and thought the rest of it was in REALLY good mechanical shape and I REALLY wanted it, I would investigate how much it would cost to have the heads pulled and have a machine shop install the steel Heli-Coil thread inserts in all the spark plug holes.  That should solve THAT problem.

Regards
John

 

[ZoNiE]

The early 3 valve (Triton) Ford V8's had two piece spark plugs, that can break when being removed. It was a big deal in the past, but there are tools and methods to deal with this now. You could get a quote from a dealer to R&R the plugs and ask for this much discounted off the price. I have a 4.6 V8 Triton in my 2009 Sport Trac and there were no Plug issues when I replaced them at 70K, but that is of no help to you, as the later models had some changes made.

The worst thing that can happen is that the threads get damaged upon removal but there is a $400 repair kit you can buy online to fix that.

The 5.4 is a good motor, but may be overkill for your needs unless you plan to load the van with heavy furnishings and fitments. Many Econolines have the 4.6 V8.

My 4.6 has been a mixed bag, as there was a flaw in the exhaust bolt design which allowed for exhaust leaks. In the rust belt, these bolts would rust and break. The Dealer replaced one head on my engine and repaired the other. Thankfully it was covered under my ford care extended warranty. It was a $6K repair that cost me $100. I bought the truck used and it was from Massachusetts. There have also been PCM issues, but I got that fixed eventually, and bought a tuner so I can run a better tune. It runs and drives better, and I use premium and get better MPG than with regular, so the extra cost is offset with the MPG. Better performance does not cost me anything.

I have no experience with the 4.2 V6, but there are a lot of them out there in F150's and the like and can go for 300K. It is a bigger version of the 3.8/3.9 Pushrod motor that has been powering Ford cars and trucks since the 80's, and seems to be a workhorse, albiet not the smoothest motor around. I have driven 3.8 Mustangs, and they are pretty torquey with a stick shift anyway. Pushrod motors don't need timing belt changes, and develop torque lower in the RPM range, so the V6 and the V8 you are comparing may feel the same off the line. There is an intake and head gasket problem in the older 4.2's that you may want to read up on in the F150 forums. Just search Ford 4.2 Gasket

I have a 4.0 V6 in my 2001 Sport Trac, and other than the timing chain giudes which are a ticking time bomb at 130K, the engine has been rock solid. This is a totally different engine, but just an example of the quality in Ford Engines.

 

[bowlingballhead]

Thanks guys. They're both 2000s, and the Consumer Reports article covers 2004-2008 Tritons, but it makes you wonder what changed that the 2000 was not affected? The plugs themselves? I'm not trying to tear an engine down right after buying a van, so even if they're the nicest two e-150s in existence, I'd rather wait on a nice Doge or Chevy if the problems are that pervasive and expensive. I guess it would depend on how often the original, one-owner in this case changed the plugs, as in before they welded themselves in tight. Oh well.

 

[bowlingballhead]

Oh yeah, I'm DEFINITELY in the rust belt. That's why finding such clean examples is exciting to me, lol. Lots of rusted out junk rolling around out here. First time I drove out to go see my brother in San Diego last year, I was absolutely beside myself as to how excellent the condition of used cars was out there. Totally gobsmacked. Awesome 80s and 90s cars, trucks, and vans that I grew up with rolling around looking like they just came off a showroom floor. Those same vehicles up here have long ago rusted away and gone off to awesome 80s and 90s car heaven.

 

[East]

I've had two E150 conversions, the first was a 4.6l V8 (1997), felt underpowered in the mountains unfortunately. I imagine a V6 would struggle quit a bit more, but I may be wrong. My current van is the 5.4l V8 Triton (2000) and I feel it has ample power even in the mountains. The difference between the 4.6l and 5.4l gas mileage is negligible in an E150, oddly enough.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Thanks guys.  They're both 2000s, and the Consumer Reports article covers 2004-2008 Tritons, but it makes you wonder what changed that the 2000 was not affected?  The plugs themselves? 

In 2004, Ford went from 2 valves per cylinder to 3 valves per cylinder.  They ALSO went to two piece spark plugs at the same time.  Plus they claimed they only needed to be changed every 100,000 miles.  By the time you tried to change them, some of these two piece plugs would separate, and leave the lower half in the head.  If it occurred AFTER 100,000 mile, it was out of warranty and Ford would do nothing for you.

The earlier 2 valve engines used conventional plugs.  Their problem was stripping the aluminum threads in the head as you were driving along, as described in the article I referenced.

Regards
John

 

[bowlingballhead]

In 2004, Ford went from 2 valves per cylinder to 3 valves per cylinder.  They ALSO went to two piece spark plugs at the same time.  Plus they claimed they only needed to be changed every 100,000 miles.  By the time you tried to change them, some of these two piece plugs would separate, and leave the lower half in the head.  If it occurred AFTER 100,000 mile, it was out of warranty and Ford would do nothing for you.

The earlier 2 valve engines used conventional plugs.  Their problem was stripping the aluminum threads in the head as you were driving along, as described in the article I referenced.

Regards
John

So I take it that the stripped threads on the earlier models is a far less severe problem than the two-piece plugs breaking apart, making the pre-2004 models a safer buy as far as cost of repair is concerned?

 

[ramblingvanman]

Speaking as a Ford certified tech with experience working both a Ford dealer and a very large fleet with mostly Fords, stay away from the 4.2 V6. It is a crap motor with many flaws. The exhaust bolts and the cracking intake manifolds being only 2. Junk, just pure junk.

 

[bowlingballhead]

Speaking as a Ford certified tech with experience working both a Ford dealer and a very large fleet with mostly Fords, stay away from the 4.2 V6. It is a crap motor with many flaws. The exhaust bolts and the cracking intake manifolds being only 2. Junk, just pure junk.

Thank you!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

So I take it that the stripped threads on the earlier models is a far less severe problem than the two-piece plugs breaking apart, making the pre-2004 models a safer buy as far as cost of repair is concerned?

That, I could not tell you.  It would depend on whether or not the pre-2004 models could be fixed with the head still on the motor.  I assume that if you have to pull the head(s) to fix both the pre and post 2004 problems, they are probably going to be roughly the same amount to fix.

Here's another thought.  Let's call pre 2004 Gen 1

The double plug problem occurred from 2004 to (I think) the middle of 2008.  Call That Gen 2

Everything since then is Gen 3.

Ford solved the Gen 2 problem with a new spark plug.  The Gen 3s all have the new plugs, so they have no spark plug issues.  If you can successfully extract the original plugs from Gen 2, the replacement plugs cure the problem and they are fine after that.

The Gen 1 problem though, is with the threads in the head itself, not the plugs, so they will be susceptible to the issue until the day you junk them. 

If I've got any of that wrong, hopefully ramblingvanman will jump in and correct it.

Regards
John

 

[ramblingvanman]

That, I could not tell you.  It would depend on whether or not the pre-2004 models could be fixed with the head still on the motor.  I assume that if you have to pull the head(s) to fix both the pre and post 2004 problems, they are probably going to be roughly the same amount to fix.

Here's another thought.  Let's call pre 2004 Gen 1

The double plug problem occurred from 2004 to (I think) the middle of 2008.  Call That Gen 2

Everything since then is Gen 3.

Ford solved the Gen 2 problem with a new spark plug.  The Gen 3s all have the new plugs, so they have no spark plug issues.  If you can successfully extract the original plugs from Gen 2, the replacement plugs cure the problem and they are fine after that.

The Gen 1 problem though, is with the threads in the head itself, not the plugs, so they will be susceptible to the issue until the day you junk them. 

If I've got any of that wrong, hopefully ramblingvanman will jump in and correct it.

Regards
John

A pretty good synopsis/explanation of the issue.

 

[akrvbob]

Is the whole thing with the 5.4 exaggerated and rarely happened, or should you just avoid that motor?
Bob

 

[East]

Seems like from what I've heard as long as you replace the spark plugs every 70k (maybe less to be safe) or so you're fine on gen 1. I've heard that it's mainly a problem when people swap spark plugs by the book, around every 100k+, which is just too much time to leave them in for the design. Had a mechanic explain that the gen1 may collect moisture/water at the spark plug, which then eats away at the threading and makes them susceptible to blowing out.

Anyways, mine were changed about 20k miles ago. Better safe than sorry I suppose.

 

[Tomcor]

How about the 5.4L engine? What problems with that engine and tranny? 2002 e150.

 

[ramblingvanman]

Is the whole thing with the 5.4 exaggerated and rarely happened, or should you just avoid that motor?
Bob

It is not as bad as the 4.2. Change the plugs more often and use anti-seize on the plugs. It is not exaggerated, but neither was it something that happened to every engine. IMO, it is best  for people in our lifestyle to avoid the earlier models. If you want one, get an 06 or newer and do not wait until 100k miles to change the plugs. Also, ensure the cam phaser issue has been dealt with. If the cam issue has not been dealt with, buy a 2011 or newer. Just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[ramblingvanman]

How about the 5.4L engine? What problems with that engine and tranny? 2002 e150.

That is the engine with the spark plug issues that seem to dominate the latest part of this discussion. Do you already have it? If not, do yourself a favor and take a pass. If you do already have it(IMO) take it to a Ford dealer and get the plugs changed asap. Ensure they use anti-seize on the new plugs. As much as I love Fords, I bought a Chevy this time. Mainly because the best Ford engines were unavailable. The 351, 4.6, 5.0, 4.9, and 2.3 engines are all good motors.

ETA: The transmissions on those trucks/vans have also had issues.

 

[akrvbob]

The problem is there are more Gen 1 with the 5.4 in most of our price range than almost any other van.

If you buy an older 5.4, would the best bet be to take it to a Ford dealer right away and have them change the plugs and tell them to use anti-seize? Would this be the one time you would be better off going to an actual Ford dealer, or wouldn't it matter?
Bob

 

[ramblingvanman]

IMO, don't buy it if you don't already have it. Why buy a known headache? IF you already have one, go directly to your Ford dealer and tell them of your concerns. There are TSBs (technical service bulletins)out about the issue. IMO, I would only let the dealer do it. Ask them to check the condition of the threads(and cams if a 2004-2010). Again, I reiterate, if you have not yet bought one, don't. IMO, having a known headache like this for not just your vehicle, but your home, is just too much trouble. My opinion only, YMMV.