Questions about Ford 4.2 V6 and 5.4 V8 in conversion van

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Thanks! I've always wondered if it was really that big a deal, good to know it is.

So is the V10 a good engine as an alternative? Of course the MPG will drop but will it be reliable?
Bob
 
akrvbob said:
Thanks! I've always wondered if it was really that big a deal, good to know it is.

So is the V10 a good engine as an alternative? Of course the MPG will drop but will it be reliable?
Bob

The V10 is basically the 5.4 with 2 extra cylinders and the exact same issues.
 
I found this on a forum and it is an exceptionally clear explanation. Bottom line is I'm buying either a Chevy or Dodge!
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=71295.

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To let you know what causes the problem, it is twofold: less than perfect design on fords part, and poor execution on the mechanic's part.

If you have the chance, have a mechanic use a bore scope to show you how many threads ford put in that model of head, they have about 25 or 30% less than a normal aluminum head. They fixed it after the first year of the 3 valve version engine by adding more meat to the casting and more threads.

This coupled with carbon build up around the spark plugs threads, which due to the small amount of threads in the head cause the plugs threads to extend past the heads threads, and into the combustion chamber by one or two threads.

and poor skill sets for some of the mehanics cause this to happen:


Here the scenario:

Mech pulls plugs and the threads gall somewhat due to the carbon build up, this tends to damage the threads somewhat.

then a failure to torque the plugs to the correct spec allows them to work there way loose and you then get hot combustion gases start to leak past the threads and eat out more of the threads. then the threads finally let go and you get the telltale bang of the plug hitting the fender well and the woosh woosh from the compressed vapors rushing out the plug hole.

To avoid this I reccomend the following. Vacume out the area around the plug to remove dirt and debris prior to anything else.
Remove the COPS (coil on plug), the fuel rails and anything else in the way.

Break the plugs loose 1/16th of a turn (AND NO MORE) and then spray a generous amount (2~3 table spoons) of carb cleaner or carbon remover around the plug and let them soak for a minimum of 4~6 hours. the carb cleaner will work its way down through the threads and soften the carbon up. you can then remove them without harming the threads. use a suction line to suck out the excess carb cleaner form the cyclinders to avoid hydro lock. (you will also need to change the oil due to contamination from the carb cleaners)

when torquing the spark plugs back in; do it to fords specs, no more, no less, do not use anti sieze, as it will change the tourqe reading of your tourqe wrench. (I think that ford asks for either 14 or 17 ft/lbs of torque, best to look it up)

avoid that "extra little bit of torque for good measure" as too much torque can and will cause you to slightly pull or even strip the threads, remember, there are less of them to start with than what is optimal for an aluminum head .

Drive the engine for about 100 miles and the recheck the tourqe to ensure that they have not loosened up.

this will take care of 99.9% of the problems that ford owners have with this issue.

FYI if you do strip one out, do not use the standard heli coil, use the ford authorized one, if not you will be replaceing the head next when it (the helicoil) lets loose. the ford replacement is a sleeve type, not a coil insert totally different animals.
 
The above is why I recommend having the Ford dealer deal with it. IMO, non-dealer shop techs will not take the time to do all of this and may not even be aware of the different type of thread repair insert. It is also why I suggested having the Ford tech check the condition of the threads. Honestly, I didn't think most here would even know what a bore scope was. I guess I underestimated the people here.
IMO, I disagree with the suggestion to not use anti-seize. I have never had an issue with over-torquing a plug that had anti-seize on it. Unless they go crazy and put too much on it, I don't see how it could be an issue. As I said, IMO. YMMV. Personally, I always use anti-seize on my plugs, and always put it on the plugs of any car I tune up.
 
Reading through this thread is interesting to me as in my School Days when we got some training in this, the instructor had a Chevy V8 Head on the bench and had installed a plug in it with too long of a reach. We were shown how this would lead to problems with carbon build up etc.  I remember him explaining that there were actually "spacers" (for lack of better words) where these could be used with plugs with
gaskets to keep the reach from extending into the combustion chamber.

I've heard a lot about this problem and how there are very few threads for the plug to be held by.

Here we were just shop kids learning this and I wonder how Engineers got to a position in their careers
where they could make this mistake ?    Yes, I know you can't answer that, but I'm just saying.
 
On stripped sparkplug threads, I used to re tap and helicoil them with the heads in place. Bring the cylinder you are working on to the exhaust stroke. Take a shop vacuum cleaner that has a blower port on it and hook it up to the exhaust pipe. Any chips from tapping the spark plug hole will blow back out the hole and not go into the cylinder. The easy way to tell you are on the exhaust stroke is first run the blower, (vacuum cleaner) and rotate the engine. When air comes out of the sparkplug hole, you are there.

Maybe this should be a new thread, but I was looking for a van with a straight 6.  I love the torque. I am thinking everyone quit them because the van nose would half to be longer, or more of the motor would be in the passenger compartment. They seemed to run forever.
 
Ford discontinued the 300 straight 6 due to inability to meet increasingly stringent epa requirements. That was the word we were given anyway.
 
According to the Wikipedia article, 96 was the last year the 300 (4.9l) was produced.

Regards
John
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
According to the Wikipedia article, 96 was the last year the 300 (4.9l) was produced.

Regards
John

Sounds right. It was a great engine imo, and in combination with the C6 transmission almost bullet proof.
 
ramblingvanman said:
Sounds right. It was a great engine imo, and in combination with the C6 transmission almost bullet proof.

In the Ford, I was looking for the 94 to 96 in particular as I like sequential fuel injection. Amc had the 258cu", Chrysler improved this engine a bit and made it their 4.0 And years earlier they had the 225 cu". Chevy had a number of them in 3 generations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_straight-6_engine

Myself or my family had the 225 in a Dodge dart, the 258 in an AMC Jeep Eagle, and the 4.0 in a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Not a single problem with any of the engines. I am not a Ford fan, but they were about the last to use an I6 in a van I think.
 
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