Pros/Cons of converting passenger van vs cargo van? (newbie alert!)

[Catina]

Hello!  I am new to the forums and in the beginning stages of planning for van life!  My apologies if this topic has already been addressed... if so it would be great if someone could direct me to it. 

My current budget is about 10K total... this would be for purchasing the van itself and some very minimal conversion efforts to start with while I save up more money to add as I go.  I would prefer a high-roof and I HAVE been seeing several used options in the ballpark of my price range.

My question is that some of these are "passenger" vans, with lights and a/c in the rear area... and of course some interior finishing.  Would there be any advantages or disadvantages for me to purchase and convert a passenger van versus an empty cargo van?  I will probably need to keep enough of the seating for up to two additional passengers (aside from the driver and other seat beside the driver)... unless the very front happens to allow seating for 3 people including the driver.

Road worthiness is one of my biggest priorities since I will be traveling with a child.

I super appreciate any advice anyone is willing to share!

 

[user 423]

-Adding 2 seats to a cargo van can be done but would complicate things as you'd have to add seat belt anchors.

-If you have 2 seats in the middle, you will be left with a pretty small area for sleeping at the rear unless you get an extended van. Typical van width is about 68"-72" so if you aren't very tall you can sleep on a bed set across the back. Many of the conversion vans have bench seats at the back that fold down into beds but they aren't very comfortable for an adult. The one in my van is 63" long. You can work with them to add comfort though with foam,air mattresses,etc.

-Since a cargo van has bare walls, adding insulation and paneling is easier. A passenger van has lots of windows, so adding insulation to other areas would be harder to do and be less effective because of all the glass areas. You could cover some of the windows with insulating materials to minimize heat loss in cold weather.

-The light and ventilation you would have in a passenger van is something you may want to have. My '93 conversion has 3 slider windows that are handy for ventilation. Adding a roof vent will help in that area. You can add windows to a cargo van though. Some have windows at the rear and at the side doors that tip out for ventilation but you may want one located somewhere behind the driver's seat.

-It's possible to find cargos with high tops but there are probably more pass. vans out there with mid-high tops that would suit you well if you aren't tall, say 5'-4" or under. I'm 5'-11" and have a 'TV top' van and it is much better for me than a regular height van even though I have to duck while moving around.

 

[tx2sturgis]

You did not state what your future plans are....Weekend camping? Full time dwelling? Cross country tour this summer? Something else?

A passenger van is often much easier to insure, and will get you 'out there' much faster, if time is important. Many can be found with all the lighting and seating you will need, some come with a convertible bed (conversion van) and other fixtures like a TV and maybe a galley of some kind. Insulation in the van will probably be minimal, and interior room is usually somewhat less due to all the trim and upholstery.  Of course, they will have side windows. 

A Class B van will have all the camping amenities, but a more modern, roadworthy unit will exceed that price range by a large margin. 

A used cargo van is a 'blank slate' and will often have no side windows, and may have a rougher interior if the van was used heavily for work. Depending on your insurance company, they may ask questions about your future plans. Tell them that it's a cargo van for personal use...not a business. Insulating and then building out a cargo van is no small event, and depending on your time, money, and skills, can be done with some time and effort, or get help and it can go faster. Most cargo vans will not have seats in the back, but a jump-seat or bench seat can always be added. Cargo vans usually have a sliding side door, and after having one of those for 4 years, I would much rather have the side 'barn doors'.

Cargo vans are generally preferred by those who wish to do some urban stealth camping, if that is in your plans.

 

[Almost There]

I prefer a cargo van because I liked the blank slate that I could build out as I wish.

BUT I had some carpentry skills, the time and a lot of determination.

I agree that adding seats is more problematic with seat belt installation needs than removing seats so if you really need seating for 4 either a conversion van or a passenger van might be the way to go. Not saying it can't be done but it's just one more thing to have to plan for. The problem with a 'conversion van is that you're paying for the upscale interior - wood trim, plush seating etc. at the cost of interior space.

Keep in mind also that the conversion vans most often come only with what's called a 'TV top'. It's meant to give extra head height to the adult passengers in the rear seating. It does not give you standing height at all. The next step up in high tops is 24" and will give you a standing height of about 6'2" once a reasonable interior has been installed. If you want standing height then a passenger (window) van or cargo van is a better choice so you're not paying for a lot of things that you're going to just rip out and get rid of.

No easy answer given the need for the extra seating. If you're only imagining that you'll want to be able to carry extra passengers other than the child and yourself, double check the plans. If 90% of the time you're only carrying the 2 of you, it might be more viable to think of renting a car for those occasions or having the others take their own vehicle.

 

[user 423]

^
x2 on the insurance caveat. Conversion vans start out as cargo vans and the windows,etc. are added. My insurance co. said the VIN of my recently purchased van showed it was a cargo and wondered what business I would be using it for. Since I've been with them for years, they took my word for it that it had seats and it was a passenger van. Some companies want you to bring it by their office so they can check for prior damage,mileage,etc. Then again they may accept that you just want to use a cargo van only for occasional toy hauling,etc.

Also x2 on the sliding doors. I've seen many older vans with jacked up mechanisms.

 

[rvwandering]

Welcome to the CRVL forums Catina!

To help you learn the ins and outs of these forums, this "Tips & Tricks" post lists some helpful information to get you started. We look forward to hearing more from you.

 

[Schwoebs]

I'm converting a passenger van now. The big disadvantage - there are no clean lines, flat surfaces, etc. Insulating has been a longer term process than expected. The videos showing nicely square insulated panels in a cargo van don't apply to passenger vans. I still like the windows, but would consider a cargo van and cutting out windows for future builds.

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

I live in California and don't intend to insulate. I am useless with tools and think a passenger van might work out better for me. Don't have to decorate as much and it already would have lights and some other things. Maybe a floor too?

 

[Catina]

I live in California and don't intend to insulate. I am useless with tools and think a passenger van might work out better for me. Don't have to decorate as much and it already would have lights and some other things. Maybe a floor too?

Thank you for chiming in!  I guess I should have also mentioned that I will be sticking close to the socal area or other warmer areas... so as you pointed out... maybe it is not a dealbreaker to only have the thin insulation already in a passenger van.

So much to think about!  I'm so grateful this forum is here so I can really think this through ahead of time.

 

[jonyjoe303]

you don't need windows in a van. I have them in my van but they are covered over with insulation. For air ventilation just cut holes on the side. Avoid the roof vents they will get in the way if you plan on adding solar panel. Cargo van is preferable to build out, if you can get that 3rd seat in there. In a passenger van if you leave too many seats in the back you won't have room left for anything else.
I had 2 bucket seats in the back of my van for years, never used them and was always crowded back there. When I removed them I had room to build a bed and cabinets. 

I live in so cal too, "sunny" so cal and you do need massive insulation in this area. Unless you park under a tree you will get roasted. As soon as the sun hits your van the temp will climb rapidly. But so cal is perfect weather for a swamp cooler, I use it every day. Lots of insulation and a swamp cooler is all you need in this area to stay cool, and I'm parked in the sun all day long. Plenty of sunshine to have a solar panel run your swampcooler. 

If you don't plan on spending any time in your van during the hottest part of the day, insulation is optional. Also if you plan on running an AC you don't need insulation.  


side vents

 

[wistful vista]

I also haven't decided upon which type of van to get either. 
I like the open airiness of the passenger vans, but I don't think those windows open at all, which would make ventilation more of a challenge.  I know one can install windows on a cargo van, but for a low-skilled person such as myself, this would add an additional layer of complexity to the build. 
Finally, there is the additional concern that cargo vans appear to be harder to insure. 

Ugh!   :huh:

 

[PineyCruisin]

One idea to throw out to you since you need additional seating --- we bought a conversion van that has the back seat that folds flat for a bed. We took out the 2 captain chairs in the middle and kept the back bench seat, along with the seat belts, so that when needed, it could easily be used as either a bed or driving seat since we still have kids who need to be transported every once in awhile. Works perfectly for us because it leaves a nice open space in the middle of the van.

The downside is that the width across the bed is only about 65-66" so if you are taller and need to stretch out while sleeping, you'll need to make accommodations. I am able to sleep perfectly but DH is 5'8" so had to make a table to place at back for his feet so he could sleep more diagonally to stretch out. So, we did make it work.

Another advantage to a conversion van is the built-in storage. Between the bed, the sliding windows (we bought an older van), the finished interior, the overhead LED lights, and the storage we were able to hit the road camping immediately.

The disadvantage to a conversion van is the price tag....maybe the west coast is more reasonable but here in the east the prices are getting a bit ridiculous.

 

[PineyCruisin]

I also haven't decided upon which type of van to get either. 
I like the open airiness of the passenger vans, but I don't think those windows open at all, which would make ventilation more of a challenge. 

When we were looking to purchase vans last year we noticed that many passenger/conversion vans around 2004 and later had windows that didn't open. We wanted the ventilation which really restricted our pool to only searching older vehicles. It just doesn't make a lick of sense to me why manufacturers install windows where none of them open, except those at the very front.

 

[user 423]

Lots of insulation and a swamp cooler is all you need in this area to stay cool, and I'm parked in the sun all day long. Plenty of sunshine to have a solar panel run your swampcooler. 

Can you show us a pic of your swamp cooler setup? I know what they are but thought they were pretty large and only used on houses. If they work well on a van, they sound like a great solution for folks who will stay mostly in the SW part of the country.

 

[drysailor]

Hello!  I am new to the forums and in the beginning stages of planning for van life!  My apologies if this topic has already been addressed... if so it would be great if someone could direct me to it. 
My question is that some of these are "passenger" vans, with lights and a/c in the rear area... and of course some interior finishing.  Would there be any advantages or disadvantages for me to purchase and convert a passenger van versus an empty cargo van?  I will probably need to keep enough of the seating for up to two additional passengers (aside from the driver and other seat beside the driver)... unless the very front happens to allow seating for 3 people including the driver.
Road worthiness is one of my biggest priorities since I will be traveling with a child.

Hi Catina, just some scattered thoughts here:
If you need legal seating for three, I don't think you're very likely to find that in a cargo van. Some passenger vans come from the factory with an all-bucket seat config. You could just leave the 2 front, & then the other wherever it fits your design. No insurance Co will agree with DIY seating.
Pass vans are more likely to have cruise control, as well as rear A/C and heat; many of the cargo vans I looked at did not.
IMO the factory insulation in pass vans is really non-existent, so you might consider removing the interior wall & roof panels to insulate. Windows can be covered with Reflectix or foam panels.
You'll find that some do like the windows, others not so much, so that depends on you.
Save as much as you can for as long as you can, before purchase. Do lots of research. Watch these forums often. Then do some more research. Let it all settle out in your brain.  Buy the least-used van you can afford.

 

[jonyjoe303]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"Can you show us a pic of your swamp cooler setup?"[/font]

I build my own swampcooler which isnt hard to do. Here is a picture, its built for use in a moving vehicule, I have it located in the rear of the van. The 4 " inch ducting intakes in back of the swampcooler connect with flexible hoses to the side vents in rear of van. You need outside air to be sucked into the cooler for it to work. Doesnt take much space, you can build them smaller or larger to accommodate the space available. This swampcooler holds enough water to run all day. If your van is heavily insulated this is all you need. Its a rare day I don't have the swampcooler running.
Without insulation the swampcooler will only cool the area right in front of it.



This is a work in progress modifications to see if diverting the airflow would work, same swampcooler design but I diverted the airflow upwards and then ducted the flow to the floor of the van and also to the fwd section of van to keep the entire rear of van cool. So far has been working good but its still the winter months. As you can see the rear of van is heavily insulated. You have to get every section. The more insulation I add the more comfortable I get. In the winter I added multiple layers of foam insulation where I no longer needed a heater, all that extra foam is also helping keep the van cool where I don't even have to run the swampcooler at full power, maybe less than an amp. 

 

[Catina]

Hi Catina, just some scattered thoughts here:
If you need legal seating for three, I don't think you're very likely to find that in a cargo van. Some passenger vans come from the factory with an all-bucket seat config. You could just leave the 2 front, & then the other wherever it fits your design. No insurance Co will agree with DIY seating.
Pass vans are more likely to have cruise control, as well as rear A/C and heat; many of the cargo vans I looked at did not.
IMO the factory insulation in pass vans is really non-existent, so you might consider removing the interior wall & roof panels to insulate. Windows can be covered with Reflectix or foam panels.
You'll find that some do like the windows, others not so much, so that depends on you.
Save as much as you can for as long as you can, before purchase. Do lots of research. Watch these forums often. Then do some more research. Let it all settle out in your brain.  Buy the least-used van you can afford.

Great points, thank you!  There might be hope, I did see a Promaster 2014 cargo van high roof that has a "double seat" in front next to the driver's seat.  At about $23K it is above my price range to buy outright... but it may be tempting to go the route of financing.  This one happens to have a window in the sliding door and windows in the back doors.  hmmmm.....  

I think as a new poster I'm not allowed to include links, but I will try to include a picture.

 

[ratfink56]

Some universal seat bases have places built in to attach lap seat belts.

 

[tx2sturgis]

If I could wave a magic wand and exert some influence on the manufacturers, I would ask them why they cant make a van with a 'camper package' similar to the way they can configure a pickup with a 'camper package'.

This would be half way between a bare bones cargo van, and a passenger or conversion van.

It would be available in a hightop, include a couple of side windows that open, roof vent, insulation, trim, lighting, mounting points inside for cabinets and beds, and maybe an optional rear jumpseat or small bench seat with legal and approved seatbelts and maybe child seat attachments. 

Then the buyer would finish it out as desired. 

Mercedes-Benz does offer something close, called the Sprinter Crew Van. But it is not cheap...nothing with MB on it ever is. 
 
With the huge numbers of people jumping into this arena, I bet they could sell a good number of them, with very little re-tooling at the factory. 

Now...what DID I do with that bag of magic pixie dust...



https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/com...MIouK2-9Ky2QIV0brACh0d7gXEEAAYASAAEgLf8fD_BwE

 

[Stanvan]

Having owned both, I like the window van better. It comes with minimal insulation, and being able to see while moving is great. No windows for a rear passenger, not so much.