On haggling

[MK7]

&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Start waaayyyyy low and then work up. &nbsp;All they can say is No, and you are the one bringing cash to the table. &nbsp;They want your cash more than you need this particular van.<br /><br />"How about $700?" is not an insult unless you are insulting in the way you offer it. &nbsp;Just be upfront and see where it goes. &nbsp;Don't ridicule the van or the seller, just offer less money.&nbsp; <br /><br />I've learned a lot from "Pawn Stars" &nbsp; They always offer an incredibly low price. &nbsp;They do not put the item, or the seller, down. &nbsp;They just offer low money. &nbsp;The show might be corny but watch how they conduct their purchases. &nbsp;Kind of interesting. <br />-- &nbsp;Kevin

<br /><br /><br />Pawning is different. The pawnshop offering the very low price, is NOT buying it. They are giving you a loan. They usually don't want what you're pawning. For example, this $700, is like a LOAN with INTEREST.&nbsp; The pawnshop wants this loan to be as low as possible so that you can pay it back + interest (up to 25% or more).... and get back what you pawned. The pawnshop&nbsp; doesn't want to get stuck with your stuff (unless it's gold, diamonds, etc.). They want their loan back + the high interest. If they give you a high loan, the interest will be higher...making it harder for you to pay them back w/i the allotted time = they're stuck with your junk that's not easily resalable. <br /><br />$1300 for this van is GOOD, up to 120,000 miles. Even 150,000, it's still decent.&nbsp; I'd be more worried that it would have serious mechanical defects for such a low asking price, ie. bad transmission or something (that's known to plague these vans)...and would skip it altogether. If all the problems are those minor ones listed (brakes, needs flushing, etc.), then it's an excellent deal.<br /><br />Anyone offering me 1/2 my asking price, I'd send them home. They wasted their time + their gas money driving to my house, not me. I wouldn't even bother with negotiation unless I'm desperate for money or the van's has got some hidden problems that are serious (ie. bad transmission that I poured in a ton of anti-slip or gear oil to temporarily mask the problem). <br /><br />Offering HALF price may work for car dealers, pawnshops, etc. because they're in the haggling business and used to it from both sides....but to an Average Joe, it's an insult. Some people get attached to their cars and such too. I would find more enjoyment not selling it to someone offering me such a lowball price, especially if they really wanted it. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[Kevin H]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree MLK. &nbsp;If you offer a van for 1700 and I come over and take a look and say "Would you consider 700".<br /><br />That should tell you two things - I've got money and I want to negotiate.<br /><br />It's only an insult if you make it one but you would be foolish to send me packing rather than counter offer.<br /><br />Notice also the ad said OBO. &nbsp;That means <em>they</em> are prepared to negotiate.<br /><br />As for the pawn show: &nbsp; watch closely. &nbsp;They <em>always</em>&nbsp;ask if the customer wants to sell or pawn. &nbsp;Not all transactions are pawns.<br /><br />Anyway, glad to hear your side...<br /><br />BTW - Sorry to hijack your thread She. &nbsp;Hope all goes well with the purchase.<br /><br />-- &nbsp;Kevin

 

[MK7]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree MLK. &nbsp;If you offer a van for 1700 and I come over and take a look and say "Would you consider 700".&nbsp; <br />That should tell you two things - I've got money and I want to negotiate.

<br /><br />Most people who takes the time to drive out to look would have the money.&nbsp; EVERY SINGLE one of them, want a better price than the asking price.&nbsp; Negotiating is expected by both parties. But what you're doing is LOWBALLING.<br /><br />

It's only an insult if you make it one but you would be foolish to send me packing rather than counter offer.

<br /><br />Like I said, if I weren't desperately in need of, say $1300 (my lowest price)...I would find more enjoyment of sending lowballers home.<br /><br />

Notice also the ad said OBO. &nbsp;That means <em>they</em> are prepared to negotiate.

<br /><br />I've been an insurance agent for over 20 years, having owned independent agencies for about 10 years and an Allstate agency for another 10 years. Then sold them. I guess I do know how to negotiate.<br /><br />If I were the seller and you offered me $700....and I had some free time that day to play, I'll just consider your lowball offer as a competitive game and play negotiations with you. I don't know what books you've read, but I've read them too + Allstate sends us to school, seminars, etc. for this. <br /><br />At $1700 asking price....if you start at $700...than I'll say $1650 .&nbsp; Or I can start with $2500 just to&nbsp; mess with you. One thing for sure, there's no way in heck am I going to let you get the best of me. Because you've just turned this into a duel. <br /><br />I've found this out when I was young and tried to show off my negotiation skills that I read from books while a Business major. Trying to negotiate with a lady in her late 50's who clearly didn't need the money for what I was trying to buy from her. It just made her relentless with her negotiations, while smiling and laughing. I ended up going home empty handed.<br /><br />The way I negotiate nowadays is to act dumb. Still trying to get a good deal, but I never try to start ridiculously low, that makes it apparent that I'm trying to be some master negotiator. $700 is not even LOWBALLING...it's much worse....it's asking for duel, which you'll probably get.<br /><br />

<br />As for the pawn show: &nbsp; watch closely. &nbsp;They <em>always</em>&nbsp;ask if the customer wants to sell or pawn. &nbsp;Not all transactions are pawns.

<br /><br />I don't watch those shows at all, just explaining what pawning means. But if they're selling, then you do have a point.&nbsp;&nbsp;

 

[Ballenxj]

<br />Most people who takes the time to drive out to look would have the money.&nbsp; EVERY SINGLE one of them, want a better price than the asking price.&nbsp; Negotiating is expected by both parties. But what you're doing is LOWBALLING.

<br />I had a 71 El Camino Super Sport that a friend of a friend asked if I'd consider selling it. Since the gas had just gone up quite a bit, and this was not an economy car, I decided that since it was a friend of a friend, I'd sell it at a low price. $2500. <br />They asked me to drive it across town to to their place and I did. After they drove it around and decided they liked it, they told me all they had was $2000. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/confused.gif" /> I just said no and headed for the car to drive home again. I was a little ticked off.<br />At this point they said; wait, here's the money. I made them pay me every nickle of it.<br />This car had a fresh 350 CI engine, a fresh turbo 350 trans, and a freshly rebuilt 10 bolt differential with Auburn Gear limited slip &amp; 3:73 ring and pinion. That, and the car was straight as an arrow without rust. The only thing it needed was paint. <br />Those folks are lucky I sold it to them at all, but it was a friend of a friend. I thought about just driving the car back home. <br />I felt I was giving them a SMOKIN deal already without them trying to beat me down even more, and I told them so. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/mad.gif" /> <br />-Bruce

 

[Kevin H]

<p>Not sure where we are going with this, MLK.<br /><br />The whole idea is for the buyer to pay the least price, the seller to get the most money.<br /><br />How you get to that place is really not important. &nbsp;All the being insulted, low balling, etc is minutia stepped through to reach the same goal.<br /><br />It's all how you approach a sale. &nbsp;If I were the seller advertising $1700 OBO and someone nicely asked "would you consider $700", I'd probably smile and say,&nbsp;<br /><br />"Nah - Can't do it." and then game on. &nbsp; A low-baller would leave, a serious buyer would stick around.<br /><br />As far as a dual, the dual began when the seller placed the ad. &nbsp;He just did not know who his opponent was yet.<br /><br />Nothing is accomplished if either party gets all excited about it. &nbsp; The final goal never changes. &nbsp;Don't loose sight of it.<br /><br />With your experience in buying/selling big time things, you surely know that the minute you let your emotion dictate <em>anything</em>, you've put yourself at a disadvantage.<br /><br /><strong>Bruce</strong> - You presented a perfect example. &nbsp;You knew you were getting low-balled and you got angry. &nbsp;At that point you relinquished your position. &nbsp;The sale still finalized with both parties happy with the outcome. &nbsp;How you got there did not matter.<br /><br />Had your emotions dictated and you walked, the buyer would not have cared and left to buy another car. &nbsp;You and your friend would still have a car that may not have gotten the same offer again.<br /><br />Think back, after the sale, even though you were a bit upset, weren't both of you happy with the final deal?<br /><br /><strong>MLK and Bruce</strong> - I'm still OK that we disagree.<br /><br /><strong>She</strong>&nbsp;- Sorry your purchase did not work out. &nbsp;Although this one did not happen, there are many, many more vans out there when your situation is such that you are ready to move forward. &nbsp;Glad you had the strength to say "No". &nbsp;I'm sure you were tempted to try to make it work.<br /><br />-- Kevin</p>

 

[Ballenxj]

<br /><p><strong>Bruce</strong> - You presented a perfect example. &nbsp;You knew you were getting low-balled and you got angry. &nbsp;At that point you relinquished your position. &nbsp;The sale still finalized with both parties happy with the outcome. &nbsp;How you got there did not matter.<br /><br />Had your emotions dictated and you walked, the buyer would not have cared and left to buy another car. &nbsp;You and your friend would still have a car that may not have gotten the same offer again.<br /><br />Think back, after the sale, even though you were a bit upset, weren't both of you happy with the final deal?

</p>Hi Kevin, Thinking back on it? I honestly think I should have kept the car. It just wasn't practical at the time. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" /> <br />-Bruce

 

[Kevin H]

Rats!!! &nbsp; Buyer's/Seller's remorse. &nbsp;We've all been <em>there</em>.<br /><br />Oh, Well. &nbsp;You might have wrecked it on the way back home!!<br /><br />Hope you had a good Thanksgiving! <br /><br />-- &nbsp;Kevin

 

[Bodhi]

I hate to haggle... and I sell things on eBay and CraigsList quite often; currently I have two marine gas tanks on there that I want $40 each for... FIRM... but, I add this PS at the bottom of my ad...<br /><br />PS. If you wish to haggle... the starting price is $80.00 EACH and I will come down to $55.00 EACH.<br /><br />With that on there (or something like it) people don't even try.&nbsp; And, if they did I would say NO SALE!<br /><br />Some people just feel they have to haggle.&nbsp; <br /><br />Where does the word haggle come from?&nbsp; Am I using it right?&nbsp; It is late and I am sleepy and the more I type it the more wrong it looks.&nbsp; {{{lol}}}<br /><br />

 

[angeli]

Where does the word haggle come from?&nbsp; Am I using it right?<br />

<br /><br /><br />You had to go there, didn't you? &nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif" /><br /><br />Per online version of the Oxford etymological dictionary: Haggle started life as a relative of the verb 'to hack' which first appeared in English in the 13th cent. &nbsp;Thru the variation 'haggen' it finally became 'haggle' in the late 16th century. &nbsp;The original meanings were to chop, to chop to pieces. &nbsp;Recorded usage appeared in early 17th century referring to arguing about price or chopping the price of something down. &nbsp;Chopping away at the price.<br /><br />Another piece of useless information. &nbsp;Enjoy.

 

[Kevin H]

Bodhi - You are doing it right. &nbsp;If you don't want to haggle (I'm pretty sure you spelled it correctly<img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" />) &nbsp;you say so up front. &nbsp;That removes any questions.<br /><br />I bet you still get calls asking if you are firm. &nbsp;Tell them you are and end the conversation. &nbsp;No fuss, no muss.<br /><br />If I see something I want that says firm, I most likely will not call unless I am OK with the price. &nbsp;If I <em>REALLY</em> want it, I'll call and nicely acknowledge that the ad said firm. &nbsp;I ask that if indeed they are, can I give them my phone number for if things change.<br /><br />If they get angry or nasty, who cares. &nbsp; I'll never be in contact with them again.<br /><br />The calls take all of a minute and everyone is on the same page.<br /><br />I'm an average Joe. &nbsp;Not lots of money so I'm not buying exotic cars, art etc. &nbsp;Given my place in life, there are at least two of everything I could ever want to buy. &nbsp;I can always pass on one because I'll always find another.<br /><br />(Glad I didn't pass on my wife, tho!!!)<br /><br />-- &nbsp;Kevin

 

[MK7]

<p>Not sure where we are going with this, MLK.

<br /><br />I thought I was pretty clear Keke.<br /><br />

The whole idea is for the buyer to pay the least price, the seller to get the most money.&nbsp; <br /><br />How you get to that place is really not important. &nbsp;All the being insulted, low balling, etc is minutia stepped through to reach the same goal.

<br /><br />That's nice, but life doesn't work like this all the time. I already gave you clear examples of how I would enjoy sending you home more than selling it to you should I not need the money that bad.<br /><br />

It's all how you approach a sale. &nbsp;If I were the seller advertising $1700 OBO and someone nicely asked "would you consider $700", I'd probably smile and say,&nbsp;<br /><br />"Nah - Can't do it." and then game on. &nbsp; A low-baller would leave, a serious buyer would stick around.

<br /><br />And some sellers would tell them both to go home.<br /><br />

As far as a dual, the dual began when the seller placed the ad. &nbsp;He just did not know who his opponent was yet.<br /><br />Nothing is accomplished if either party gets all excited about it. &nbsp; The final goal never changes. &nbsp;Don't loose sight of it.

<br /><br />Teaching someone a lesson and sending them home is a worthwhile lesson to me.<br /><br />

With your experience in buying/selling big time things, you surely know that the minute you let your emotion dictate <em>anything</em>, you've put yourself at a disadvantage.

<br /><br />Keke, it's not a big deal if I wasn't desperate for money and the joy of sending some Lowballer home w/o even bothering with any negotiations that he was prepared for, is a fun win for some.<br />&nbsp;<br />

<br /><strong>MLK and Bruce</strong> - I'm still OK that we disagree.

<br /><br />Yet you're still reiterating the same arguments Keke.</p>

 

[Kevin H]

MK7 (I just realized the typo on your name - wondered what happened with the "KeKe" silliness) - When the whole interaction turns into a "mine's bigger than yours", it ceases to be a negotiation for a purchase. &nbsp;(funny how some discussions on forums turn that way, too) I don't participate and stop the process.<br /><br />Trying to "teach someone a lesson" speaks volumes.<br /><br />You're right, we're both reiterating. &nbsp;I'm outta here on this one...<br /><br />-- &nbsp;Kevin

 

[Ballenxj]

Rats!!! &nbsp; Buyer's/Seller's remorse. &nbsp;We've all been <em>there</em>.<br /><br />Oh, Well. &nbsp;You might have wrecked it on the way back home!!<br /><br />Hope you had a good Thanksgiving! <br /><br />-- &nbsp;Kevin

<br />Actually, I turned the cash into a Honda Prelude. Still fun to drive, but WAAAY better fuel economy. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" /> <br />I just didn't get as many looks as I used to. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/rolleyes.gif" /> <br />Had a GREAT turkey day, and I hope you all did too. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" /> <br />Bruce

 

[MK7]

MK7 (I just realized the typo on your name - wondered what happened with the "KeKe" silliness) - When the whole interaction turns into a "mine's bigger than yours", it ceases to be a negotiation for a purchase. &nbsp;(funny how some discussions on forums turn that way, too) I don't participate and stop the process.<br /><br />Trying to "teach someone a lesson" speaks volumes.<br /><br />You're right, we're both reiterating. &nbsp;I'm outta here on this one...<br /><br />-- &nbsp;Kevin

<br /><br />Yet you contradict yourself once again, going back on your word of being done (about 3 times now), by reiterating almost exactly the same argument.

 

[twokniveskatie]

I am moving this out of She's thread, because if it keeps up being a pissing match, it may need to be deleted. Please be nice.

 

[josephusminimus]

Seems a shame the thread turned out with rancor involved.&nbsp; I'd thought for some time it would be fun to have a thread on haggling, bargaining, horse-trading, whatever anyone might call it.&nbsp; Hadn't realized there were people in the population who had strong feelings or opinions against it.<br /><br />Maybe it's a cultural thing.&nbsp; I know it went on all around me when I was a kid, and that I've spent my life doing it, can't resist doing it, wouldn't know how to not do it without a conscious effort.<br /><br />But I'm also aware it's a trait causes people with me sometimes to be uncomfortable and go stand off in the wings or pick some other line in the grocery store [yeah, sometimes I haggle in grocery stores, talk to the next level up the management ladder over bread lacks a day from the pull-date, dented cat-food cans, whatever].<br /><br />Maybe it would be unreasonable to try getting into a discussion about the nuts and bolts of haggling among people who do it as a way of life, [or would wish to], though, on a thread where the strong feelings have already come to the surface and the opposing viewpoints have dropped anchor.<br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[Ballenxj]

I think it's a shame too. We can still continue this thread about haggling, just keep it on a friendly basis. I mean, we are all still friends here, right? <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" /> <br />I for one can express my displeasure with an offer without insulting someone. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" /> <br />-Bruce

 

[twokniveskatie]

It's not just the rancor, it ended up being a whole different topic, practically longer than She's original topic. Haggling is a good subject. Continue on with it here, or start over and maybe it can be a little less contentious.

Bruce, please remove the quote. I'm too tired right now to do it! :

https://vanlivingforum.com/post?id=5985377

Thanks!

 

[Ballenxj]

OK. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/crazy.gif" /> Didn't know we had an anti quote policy. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/tongue.gif" /> <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" /><br />-Bruce

 

[twokniveskatie]

Bruce- up until now it was a suggestion. I just posted today that it will be a policy. So you are forgiven, if you'll forgive me from making you an example from the git go you are far from the worst perpetrator. You are also a good sport. I wish I had smilies, cause I'd give you a bunch!!!!