National park jobs? Recent experiences?

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mkl654321

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About 15 years ago, I took a job with Delaware North in Yellowstone--I was going to be a credit card payment processor at their offices in West Yellowstone. I wanted to start work in early May, but the job didn't start until Memorial Day weekend. So I trundled uphill to help open their general store and restaurant at Canyon Village.

I stayed in what was a private room for the time being in the employee dorms--but I would have had a roommate if it had been later in the season. I did various and sundry jobs, including inventory, cook, etc. When the time came, I went back downhill to "West," as they call it, and started my new job--only to find that the working conditions were awful and the employee housing--for which I would be charged $400 a month--was one-sixth of a two-bedroom apartment. I would be sleeping in the same room as two teenagers. No thanks, I said.

Now, the dormy arrangement uphill wasn't too bad--there were communal bathrooms (of course), but the food they fed us (three meals a day) was actually not bad (a HUGE upgrade from prior years, I was told) and the people were not too psychotic. The work itself was strenuous but otherwise OK.

One major beef I had with DNC was their propensity to schedule split shifts, which effectively stretched the workday out to twelve hours. Also, they'd stretch you out to a six-day work week at first, so insofar as being in "America's wonderland" was concerned, you might as well have been in Cleveland for all the difference it made. I spent my one day off doing my laundry and recovering. I heard that Xanterra (aka "Xanterrible") was an even worse employer, and the slop they fed their employees would have been a war crime if it was fed to prisoners.

I should also mention that we were paid federal minimum wage ($7.25 an hour) and for some reason, Wyoming had no overtime laws--work more than 40 hours, so what. So with the food and housing deductions, we cleared basically nothing. The only people who made money were the people who earned tips.

Upon reflection, I figured that the only way to make this sort of gig viable was to stay in my own RV/van/whatever. I verified that I'd still be able to get my employee meals and use the bathroom and laundry facilities. DNC still wanted $20 a week for me to park my ass on a concrete slab with no hookups, but I would have access to water and a dump station. I was hired to work at another location in Yellowstone under these conditions, but I became seriously ill and had to turn down the job.

I've never gone back or worked at any other national park since then (before, I worked in Yosemite and Glacier). But I'm thinking about it for next year. Does anyone have any recent experience living in an RV/van and working in a national park? What were the living/working conditions like? Was your pay awful or merely lousy? Would you do it again?

I love the national parks in the West and spend a lot of time there every summer. Unfortunately, competition for jobs there, especially those where you can park and live in your RV, is fierce despite the lousy pay. So if I'm gonna do this next year, I have to start yesterday. Any input would be appreciated.
 
I have not worked in the national parks but have visited them and met many around the country who do.

If you can avoid the privatized entities, I would suggest that, as there seem more shenanigans with those.

Otherwise, get thyself enrolled and take whatever you can find just to get your foot in the door.
 
Working for forest service campground concessionaire is better, can expect to clear 8K during a decent season. Same deal with the split shifts though, you can expect to work 12 hours with a longish break on good days. Food is not included and few amenities at the site, though some get full hookups.

Ravella said she had a good experience this summer, not sure if forest camp or COE camp?
-crofter
 
crofter said:
Ravella said she had a good experience this summer, not sure if forest camp or COE camp?
-crofter
It was neither. It was a volunteer position for US Fish & Wildlife on a refuge. No pay, just hookups.

It was a wonderful experience. The position kept me from inactivity and isolation. I did not know how badly I needed to connect with people. And I'm so grateful for the squatting, shoveling, climbing into and out of a really high truck bed-- heck, even climbing into the driver seat was exercise lol. That truck was huge-- and a treat to drive all over the refuge at the gov's expense. It is a wonderous place that I could never have gotten to so deeply appreciate had I only camped there a couple of weeks.

I may be perverse, but if I can survive with no paycheck, I'd far rather volunteer than have bosses that want to pay me as little as possible and get as much as possible work out of me. I understand that it can't work for everyone, and may not continue to work for me. But for this year-- magic!

Dang Critter. You have an excellent memory!

Edit 2-- I swear I wrote Crofter! DYAC!
 
My wife and I have worked for the Department of interior at the Fish and Wildlife Agency, NPS, state departments of wildlife as well as Aramark and several other private concessionaries in Corp of Engineers, state and national parks as well as private parks. Volunteers are almost always treated well as they had no obligation to stay. Government jobs generally pay better and even seasonal one have some benefits. Wages are better in Arizona and Utah because minimum wage rates are higher and remote locations usually but not always pay more. Lot rents and housing charges vary from $50 a month to $350 a month depending on who you work for and where you work. Best to ask your questions to the person hiring and verify with someone who worked for them previously or presently via employee web sites or personal contacts, then choose.
 
I would not want to do it this last few years unless it was outdoor work. The reason for that is needing to consantly be masked for all indoor work.
 
I'm talking about a job job, not a volunteer "opportunity." Those are ripoffs BTW, if I could get people to work for me all summer for nothing, I'd be a rich man.

Coolworks used to be a good source, but they never take listings down when jobs are filled. The last three times I used a link they published to a supposedly open position, the job had been taken weeks ago. That said, they're still useful to find out the names of the various concessionaires that operate in the national parks.

I'm trying to determine if there'll be a labor surplus (from all the nomadland types willing to work for half a peanut) or a labor shortage (because these companies rely heavily on foreign labor and that ain't happening now). From what I can see so far, the concessionaire companies expect a booming business in 2022.
 
Wow. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine is that volunteering at free public campgrounds, and other free to use public lands for those who can do it, is no kind of ripoff. It's an activity that helps keep these free places free, open, and clean. Some of us have service in our DNA. Volunteers do immense good in this world.

Good luck with your job search.
 
No, volunteering isn't a ripoff. Contriving to get people to work for free is a ripoff--even if they're perfectly willing to do it. Campground hosting pays so very little because there are hordes of eager folks ready to do it for nothing, or next to nothing. I don't have the luxury of working for nothing. I have bills to pay, medical expenses, I have to buy food, fuel, etc. etc. etc.

Campground hosts should receive a stipend, calculated as follows: (The number of hours they work) x (state minimum wage) - (the fair market value of the place where they park + utilities, etc.). That would be fair.

If you want to donate to the state, by all means, write 'em a check and seal the envelope with a kiss, but giving one's time away for free lessens opportunities for those who can't afford to do that. If you're willing to clean restrooms for free, well then, Joe Restroom Cleaner won't be able to find employment at any wage.

I hasten to add that if I had a business and people came up to me clamoring to work in my shop for $0.00 an hour, I probably wouldn't bother to hire any paid help, either.
 
But you don't have people wanting to work for you for free. Others feel that no lot fee's is worth cleaning the rest room.
 
mkl654321 said:
Campground hosts should receive a stipend, calculated as follows: (The number of hours they work) x (state minimum wage) - (the fair market value of the place where they park + utilities, etc.). That would be fair.

It is a free campground.
Run by volunteers who enjoy being of service and meeting /socializing with other people.
You don't have to do it.
Fair is subjective.
 
Just because some people enjoy being taken advantage of doesn't mean that it's fair. And no, fair is NOT subjective, sorry, any more than morality and ethics are.

People work in government facilities that are "FREE!!!!!" to the public all the time, and those people are usually paid. I don't see the justification for not paying the people who attend and clean those facilities. It wouldn't have to be some kind of king's ransom. Just enough, maybe, for them to buy food and cover their basic living expenses, such as medical care/insurance.

I for one would be more than happy to pay $5 or $10 to access/stay in one of those FREE!!! locations so that the attendant(s) can be fairly paid for their work.
 
mkl654321 said:
Just because some people enjoy being taken advantage of doesn't mean that it's fair. And no, fair is NOT subjective, sorry, any more than morality and ethics are.

People work in government facilities that are "FREE!!!!!" to the public all the time, and those people are usually paid. I don't see the justification for not paying the people who attend and clean those facilities. It wouldn't have to be some kind of king's ransom. Just enough, maybe, for them to buy food and cover their basic living expenses, such as medical care/insurance.

I for one would be more than happy to pay $5 or $10 to access/stay in one of those FREE!!! locations so that the attendant(s) can be fairly paid for their work.

Budgets. Without the work of volunteers, many federal and state campgrounds would have to be closed, or become cess pits.
 
No. More money would have to be allocated for the upkeep of those places. But in the grand scheme of things, would paying a few schlubs minimum wage to maintain those campgrounds really bust the budget beyond repair? I doubt it very much.

And as I said, state/federal agencies could charge $5 or whatever to camp there. I really, really doubt that would be a deterrent for anyone.

Keep in mind that while people volunteer for charities and nonprofits all the time, that's because those organizations couldn't afford to actually pay people to work for them. That ain't true of the federal government (not yet, anyway), so there's no justification for not paying the people who work for it.
 
mkl654321 said:
Just because some people enjoy being taken advantage of doesn't mean that it's fair. And no, fair is NOT subjective, sorry, any more than morality and ethics are . . . I don't see the justification for not paying the people who attend and clean those facilities . . .

Fair IS subjective.  We each determine what is adequate compensation for our labor and the people who volunteer are satisfied with the arrangement.  Forcing one persons sense of fairness on others is just as tyrannical as forcing one to work for free.

The justification is that the volunteers are satisfied with the compensation (their values not mine).
 
Too bad this post went off the rails. There was some great info shared. Thanks, Moderator for leaving it up.
 

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