Men Only! Women Keep Out!!!! No Women Allowed!!!

[tx2sturgis]

Well its all part of the lifestyle and the forum, but I agree, it has wandered around and stepped on a few toes.

 

[SoulRaven]

To be a part of the lifestyle, it would need to be addressing ways to try to prevent "things" from happening, that was the implication of the thread title.
A "this is what has happened" and "how can we minimize this from happening", but when "things" happened, generally it being a relative or person known, that really never seemed to mesh with danger on the road. Attempting to spread fear, to be afraid every second because you are a woman is fear-mongering and the way I see it, not in the spirit of the community.

Just not healthy for the spirit of the community IMO.

There have been several discussions on safety for women specifically and men/women also. I linked in a couple of the youtube videos from Bob's youtube channel. I also saw several threads.

I could start a thread of all the negative things that could happen on the road, maybe scare some people, but I would rather concentrate on what could happen and how you might avoid it. Hey, but that's just me who is obviously an abnormal female who just doesn't get it! Yep, stepped on my toes as if you had not already guessed!

 

[Ballenxj]

Well its all part of the lifestyle and the forum, but I agree, it has wandered around and stepped on a few toes.

HDR, This thread may have wandered and weaved a bit, but mostly because members of CRVL are getting things that have been bothering them off their chests, so has a lot to do with this forum. I think for the most part this thread has done more good than otherwise, but it would seem the pressure is being put on from elsewhere?
Brian, stepped on a few toes? Care to elaborate?

 

[tx2sturgis]

Brian, stepped on a few toes? Care to elaborate?

Sure:

I think alot of people internalize what they read, thinking its a personal attack or something.

As a generic example:

If I said on a forum that I prefer to ride in an airplane, they are smoother, less dangerous, prettier, whatever, well some helicopter pilot would come forward and say I was discriminating or overstepping my bounds, that helos were fun and important and what the heck was I thinking?

Point is, we are ALL different and have different backgrounds, attitudes, beliefs, morals and preferences and that is the STRENGTH of this forum.

I may not like some of the stuff I read but I dont assume its about ME if its just banter about something maybe related to me.

My previous occupation, (truck driving), the company, or the biker background, or flying drones, or the age, or the choice of smartphone, or whatever. Its not about ME. Its about people expressing opinions.

I might get in there and state an opposing opinion. But I don't take it personally.

But it looks like some people DO take it personally.

It was never meant that way, and especially if I don't even know anything about the person.

 

[Ballenxj]

Sure:

I think alot of people internalize what they read, thinking its a personal attack or something.

As a generic example:

If I said on a forum that I prefer to ride in an airplane, they are smoother, less dangerous, prettier, whatever, well some helicopter pilot would come forward and say I was discriminating or overstepping my bounds, that helos were fun and important and what the heck was I thinking?

<-------->

I might get in there and state an opposing opinion. But I don't take it personally.

But it looks like some people DO take it personally.

It was never meant that way, and especially if I don't even know anything about the person.

Then how do you know anybody besides that helicopter pilot took anything personally?

 

[tx2sturgis]

Then how do you know anybody besides that helicopter pilot took anything personally?

Scroll up!

 

[Ballenxj]

Scroll up!

Post number? There's a lotta dang posts here.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Post number? There's a lotta dang posts here.

Prefer not to.

 

[XFILE36]

I don't know where these threads stand as of this moment. I hope these previous posts are left here as a monument and deterrent to other people who read this.

 

[lenny flank]

I didnt see it that way.

I was expressing observations...about how the world seems to work, or not work, if you prefer. 

It cames through loud and clear, in this entire thread.

This ain't directed at you. It's the entire thread.

I find it...disturbing...
Homophobia (and its dog-whistles) has no place in a civilized society. Any more than sexism or racism does.

 

[Putts]

Sorry you feel that way, Lenny. It is a disturbing subject.

On the other hand, it's disturbing nature and the struggle to deal with the topic are solid steps towards the tribe's ability to learn together.

I know the mods here work to make this a "soft" place where many people can be comfortable (thank you), and I'm sure this thread is challenging for them. I take the fact that it hasn't been shut down yet as a sign they see worth in the dialog. I think the participants here should honor this opportunity to speak on this subject and take care to be sensitive and loving in the exchange. But I also think it's important to speak from an authentic position of self, warts and all, in order to make real progress in the dialog.

My favorite saying I made up:

"I've never met a human that the wasn't incredibly beautiful and fatally flawed."

I don't understand why some of you keep jumping back into the tiny group of monsters that just happen to be the same sex.

I don't find this exactly right. I feel we all have a little monster in us...and we all struggle with our flaws. This thread dredging a deep, dark topic will expose pockets of latent error in our makeup. One isn't either a sexist pig or a pure unbiased angel. There's a continuum of behavior from overt to subconscious that we try to remake and remold as individuals in order to grow and learn to be better humans. It's silly to assume it's just good guys and bad guys out there.

The real Good is our ability to come together in these difficult dialogs and submit our fallible beings to the larger organism of the tribe. When we position our individual motives to serve the greater good; when we begin to take seriously our identity as a nomad and part of this tribe; when we are willing to speak about ourselves with truth; this is where the tribe gains real strength and we from it. Strength to buoy up authentic beautiful people who also take on water from flaws in their being.

Yes, Lenny, it's a disturbing topic and will expose some edges in folks that may make others cringe. The easy reaction is to either turn a blind eye so as not to see the ugliness, or to raise an axe to chop away at the log in another's eye. The middle way is to speak with love in an ugly place to ware smooth the error knowing there is great beauty there too that must be honored and nurtured. This is the strength of tribe.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Homophobia (and its dog-whistles) has no place in a civilized society. Any more than sexism or racism does.

Lenny, we are friends here on the forum...so one friend to another...I don't remember seeing anything here that was homophobic...

It's possible you read between the lines and came to some other conclusion, but I just haven't seen it. I have gay friends and have conversations about different aspects of society all the time. I usually know what it looks or sounds like. Same with racism...its not part of my life normally.

As far as 'sexism'.....DING DING DING!!

Yep, guilty!

I call men 'sir', 'dude', and 'guys' and I refer to women as 'babe', 'sweetie' and 'darlin' all the time....in person, on a forum, in a text, and/or other places...other than corporate surroundings, where that is not acceptable.

Other than in a business setting, I DO treat women and men differently. Always have, always will. I am not disrespecting women, I elevate and honor them...acknowledging the pleasant differences of which there are many. Ignoring the differences does not make them disappear.

I open doors (including car doors) for women, I pay for the date, I help them with car maintenance, I grab things off the top shelf in the store for them if needed, I help little old ladies up the wheelchair ramp at the post office if they like, but I also expect to be treated respectfully as a man.

I am guilty of wolf-whistles occasionally (more so in my exuberant youth), 'locker room banter', staring as a woman walks away, (nice!) and enjoying the smell of her delightful perfume as she passes.

So yeah, I'm very sexist, but not in a negative way, at least in my mind. I fully realize what I'm doing and don't plan to change.

But to your point, I'm not happy that you feel offended for whatever reason.

I don't think anyone here, at least on this thread, was even talking about LGBT subjects, at least not in any negative way.

 

[mert6706]

Just kidding, Ladies are welcome too. Luv the girls, and hearing their points of view.
OK, roast me if you want to, I've just finished zipping up my fire suit.

You didn't really think us gals would pass up that challenge, did you?

 

[Ballenxj]

Sorry you feel that way, Lenny. It is a disturbing subject.

On the other hand, it's disturbing nature and the struggle to deal with the topic are solid steps towards the tribe's ability to learn together.
<-------->
The real Good is our ability to come together in these difficult dialogs and submit our fallible beings to the larger organism of the tribe. When we position our individual motives to serve the greater good; when we begin to take seriously our identity as a nomad and part of this tribe; when we are willing to speak about ourselves with truth; this is where the tribe gains real strength and we from it. Strength to buoy up authentic beautiful people who also take on water from flaws in their being.

Yes, Lenny, it's a disturbing topic and will expose some edges in folks that may make others cringe.  The easy reaction is to either turn a blind eye so as not to see the ugliness, or to raise an axe to chop away at the log in another's eye. The middle way is to speak with love in an ugly place to ware smooth the error knowing there is great beauty there too that must be honored and nurtured. This is the strength of tribe.

Ah, somebody that gets what this thread is about. Thank You.
 I find all too many times that no matter what was actually written, somebody somewhere feels that something entirely different was meant. I think that could possibly be attributed to hyper sensitivity? We all need to relax a bit.

 

[Putts]

So....what's the topic here?

Reading comprehension. Sorry man, the report card is in the mail.

Ah, somebody that gets what this thread is about. Thank You.

Took me a while, I guess. You're welcome.

 

[eoewan]

tx2sturgis, quote "...I am guilty of wolf-whistles occasionally (more so in my exuberant youth), 'locker room banter', staring as a woman walks away, (nice!) and enjoying the smell of her delightful perfume as she passes.
So yeah, I'm very sexist, but not in a negative way, at least in my mind. I fully realize what I'm doing and don't plan to change. ..."end quote.

I think you want to re-examine this way of being. You are probably unaware of the objectification of women in the wolf whistles, staring, sniffing, and locker room banter. Women are not objects. You can be appreciative of the female gender without the objectifying. I've always told my daughters to ignore the objectifying because they are more then a pair of boobs, lady bits, pretty face, or butt. A man who only sees you for your appearance is a man to stay far away from as he will never appreciate what they actually have to offer. The worst insult I ever received was "I didn't realize you were so smart."

 

[lenny flank]

Lenny, we are friends here on the forum...so one friend to another...I don't remember seeing anything here that was homophobic...

The undercurrent is pretty clear to me.

 

[SternWake]

I for one appreciate that there is a "for women only' title on some threads regarding the women specific forum.

Just like when my mother and aunts and sister and female cousins and whomever else would get together and bicker about how men suck and can't do anything right while presenting themselves as oppressed victims and saints who can do and never have done anything wrong, I can just ignore it, and them.

 

[Ballenxj]

The undercurrent is pretty clear to me.

WOW! Please tell me where you got your crystal ball because mine is apparently defective. I don't see this at all.

 

[Scott7022]

Hey Lenny, I kind of panicked a bit when I read what you wrote as I remembered typing LGBT and thought OMFG? Did I write something backwards or did this infuriating auto correct AI screw something up? So I went back and checked. It hadn't and my pulse is slowly dropping. I am guilty of being too easy breezy with LGBT issues as it is such a non issue for me that I forget the challenges and real life terrors many of my friends went through during the dark past when I would get the call to walk them home from the clubs. I forget Vancouver is kind of like mecca in North America. I delight in showing my Russian friends our rainbow crosswalks. They are shocked. I really don't care what parts a person is born with or without or what they decide to do with those parts. If you are a kind and good person I am there for you 100 percent. To those that would marginalize, take advantage, or try to victimize anyone in my presence. IF they NEED my help my kindness is not what you'll remember.  

I get you find this disturbing and while i don't see your perspective I am willing too. Thats goes for anyone. Putts put it well as a tribe sometimes a hard discussion is required.