Kerosene heaters?

[Blue]

I have no expirence with Kerosene, I know it smells a bit (maybe a lot?) but I had thought about building a kerosene lamp that also heated water ala one of the campfire water heaters (spiral of stainless steel tubing with a small water pump) then I thought hey... I wonder how kerosene heaters work... I went to this website...

http://www.milesstair.com/kero_heaters.html

and now its got me thinking 1) kerosene heaters appear to not be sold in the usa (what?) but they can still be bought and shipped through ebay.. does anyone know why? 2) are these things dangerous or terrible? 3) many people use these for green house heaters... is that because the stink is overpowering? I really just dont know anything about kerosene and was thinking it might be a lot cheaper than a buddy heater (these things are kicking out 20,000 BTU but I dont know what the drawbacks are...

 

[Lucky mike]

Danger Will Robinson....Danger!!!!

Kerosene heaters need alot of ventilation , They emit very toxic fumes (if you need to test this theory just head to a truckstop and huff over a diesel stack).......unless the kerosene heater you are looking at is vented to the outside and gets its burn air from outside its not very good for a permanent or enclosed temporary source.

 

[katelyn]

We have a kerosene heater for emergencies only. And I mean no heat in winter for more than 10hrs because the fumes are horrible! I would not recommend using a kerosene heater in a vehicle ever. Very dangerous

 

[Zil]

I have used kerosene heaters. During hard times we heated the house with the catalytic type. Using precautions and maintaining wick resulted in no fumes no kero smell. But it was a lot of work being that careful. I know others that were not careful, spilling oil, and not caring for the wick that had big time odor and some that had bad fires.
When I was a young mountain child we used coal oil stoves that could heat a pot of water on the top. They left black cob webs from the ceilings, an old t shirt over a broom was used daily to clean them up.

 

[PastTense]

Yes kerosene heaters are sold in the U.S. Here is what Amazon offers:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=kerosene+heater

I had a kerosene heater for emergency heat backup. I used it a couple times and didn't like the smell and switched to propane.

 

[angeli]

I've used kerosene heaters and oil lamps for years. Crack your window just a little bit (like 1/2 inch or so) and that helps maintain a good oxygen balance. I've never had problems with odor when I use K1 grade kerosene. The only time I had a problem was when my other half thought he'd get a deal and used the low grade stuff. NOT for heating, it was awful. Colored red, so avoid it.

I love my kerosene heaters and there really isn't a lot of work to maintaining them. Make sure you have a spare wick, and keep the lamp wick trimmed. Miles Stair's website has info on all things kerosene.

http://www.milesstair.com/kero_heaters.html

Personally I prefer kerosene to propane because it is NOT explosive like propane is.

If you want to use kero for lamps, make sure it is the clear stuff, or sold as lamp oil, although that is a bit more expensive. It will give a good light, but it takes two lamps with my eyes to read for a good length of time. If you can find a glass chimney with a big spherical bit around the flame. quite a bit larger than that of your usual hardware store lamp chimney, that will give better light, as the large spherical chimneys were what used to be used for sewing and hand work.

Trim your lamp wick by cutting the edges diagonal into an arrow shape, and then cut the point off the tip straight across, about a 1/2 inch depending on how big your wick is.

I'm currently going between a cabin with no power and Josephine the van, and I've used a propane stove for a few months, along with my kero heaters, using up what I had. Recently decided to go back to my kero stove, as I just have better control over the heat, and feel safer without the tanks. You will have to find a safe place to store the plastic cans with the kero in them. They WILL NOT mix with gasoline, and the cans CANNOT be used for both.

I remember watching the gas refinery blow up in the quake in Los Angeles in the early 70's. Also in the Northridge quake in the 90's there were all sorts of photos of trailers that had been blown to bits by their exploding propane tanks. We also watched one go in Colorado, when the owner had left the gas on accidentally and lit a cigaret. blew his walls off and gave him a not so free trip to the ER.

On the other hand, I remember hanging out for a year in a tipi at 10,000 ft on the back of Pikes Peak (on the south slope - the banana belt), using a good ol' Corona kerosene radiant heater. With the natural insulating effects of the tipi double wall with a couple feet of snow on it, and the powerful heat of the kerosene, much of the time we were running around in our undies, even when snow outside was waist high.

 

[Simran]

I'm with angeli,
Kero is safe enough if care is taken to vent. Also, you can't be sloppy about storage and transfer of Kero either. Just takes a little extra time and due diligence. the heat from kerosene is phenominal. i just did a test run in my bus of a vented kero/#1 fuel oil heater today. I have propane in my van because it already had a DOT tank under it but my bus is a diesel and i want to heat with #1 diesel as well. Just simplifying where I can.

 

[GrayWhale]

Kerosene just smells so bad. I just tried it out for 4 hours in the van with 2 camp lanterns and now I reek of kerosene. Blew my nose and there was some noticeable black soot. My mother said I smelled like some kind of burning oil when I walked in. And I used the K-1 stuff from Walmart that was not cheap.

We have a big kerosene heater like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Sengoku-KeroH...31805&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=kerosene+heater to use during emergencies in the house. Can still smell it. Not as bad due to more space in the house. But inside a van it would be an overkill plus it takes up a lot of space, especially when you can't have it too close to stuff.

I'm going with this one for the van:
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Sport...Heater/dp/B0009PUPSI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Only 1,500 btu and supposed to last 14 hours with 1 can of propane. If it's really cold, I'll fire up the propane stove for a little while to take the edge off.

 

[SoulRaven]

Greetings!

I've been using kerosene as my primary fuel of choice for my camper van for over 40 years now.

Here's my story... One day about 40 years ago I woke up coughing, wheezing, and couldn't get my breath. I hustled my but into the ER and after a LOT of tests they told me that I had cumulative CO (Carbon Monoxide) poisoning. My camper vans had always been equipped with propane appliances, and I was always VERY careful to have at least double the recommended ventilation. Yet, there I was with CO poisoning. A doctor pulled me aside and told me horror stories about the hundreds of people he'd treated for CO poisoning from using propane indoors, with ventilation. He told me that it was a sneaky silent killer, and even though it might take 5 or 10 years like it did in my case, that it would eventually catch up with people.

He told me that unless vented outside, propane was NEVER safe indoors, and if I needed unvented indoor heat that kerosene was the only safe thing to use.

So I switched everything over to kerosene. After months and months of suffering from the CO poisoning, finally it started subsiding, and finally I got back to normal. The doctor said if I hadn't come in when I did, and would have kept doing what I was doing that I would have been dead in two days. My propane appliances were all working properly by the way, and I'm a safety freak.

So my setup consists of a 23k btu kerosene heater, a kerosene cookstove, a kerosene fridge, two old brooklyn style flat wick kerosene lamps, and one aladdin kerosene lamp that has a round wick and a mantle like a coleman lantern has, and it puts out just about the same amount of light as the brightest coleman lantern.

Unlike some other reports, other than replacing the wicks once when I got them, none of them have required any maintenance at all. The simple trick is to simply burn them at the right flame height. If they are adjusted correctly and you're using only FIBERGLASS wicks, the only time you will get any smoke or fumes is for about 1/2 second when you extinguish them. Less than what I get when extinguishing a normal candle.

According to the statistics, there has never been a death from CO associated with kerosene appliances, and over 1k per year associated with propane.

The last friend that I had die from the same thing I had, had one of those camper safe, indoor, unvented, catalytic hang on the wall, olympian heaters. When I spoke with the doctor he said "...Well, they may be camper safe, maybe even indoor safe, but they are certainly not people safe, and your friend just proved that the hard way!".

I just returned from Alaska, and at -60f, it was Hawaii in my camper van. My neighbor's propane system was froze up, so he came and bunked with me for two nights until he could get himself a kerosene heater.

An ounce of prevention could literally save your life on this, so I'm a kerosene believer, and a very happy camper.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[Blue]

wow, good to know...

 

[Simran]

Miles Stair has an extremely informative site in regards to burning K1 and the set up and care of K1 heaters. I've been experimenting with heaters in my bus. Recently I've been using a Kero heater while working on the bus and have found it to be real efficient with nary a wiff of kero. Camper van_man touched on a couple things that are imperative to the use of kero heaters.
1) you need to use good quality fiberglass wicks
2) kero heaters have little adjustment. A heater needs to be purchased that is the proper size for the space you are heating; the importance of this cannot be over stated.
3) The wicks need proper maintenance. This is hard to explain but Miles Stair has some pretty specific instructions for this on his site.

As far as I know Coleman does not make a kero heater that is of sufficient quality to not smell. They make some good lamps but not kero heaters; at least that's been my experience. They all smell.
The kero heater in my bus has very little smell; nearly indistinguishable. Not near enough to make your clothes smell or strong enough to make the interior smell after the heater is shut off.
Although the initial cost of the fuel seems high; I've found it to be rather economical because of the fuel/BTU conversion is much higher than propane.
All that said, I don't know how a kero heater would work in a van. Camper van_man sounds like he'd be a better judge of that. The only reason I'd be hesitant is the issue of finding one small enough of good enough quality. The smallest I've seen is like 850BTU. A kero heater of that size throws off way more heat than, say, an electric or propane heater of a similar size.
In the below pic you can see the kero radiant heater in my bus. It is 1000btu and heats the bus extremely well.

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This is not a very good pic but it is a pic anyway

 

[SoulRaven]

Greetings!

Well, I have a large camper van, and a 23k btu kerosene heater which is definitely over kill if you're not in extreme conditions. At -60f it feels pretty darn good and with a typical kerosene heater you regulate your comfort zone with windows or doors.

What I use in milder conditions is my kerosene cook stove. It has round wicks similar to the kerosene heater, except that the wicks are at a fixed height. With these, your flame height is determined via a valve which regulates the amount of kerosene flowing to the wick. This gives you full flame height adjustment, and I just place a large clay flower pot over one burner and then adjust the temperature accordingly. Very similar to adjusting a coleman stove only totally silent.

Since these all use a wick rather than being pressurized, they are totally silent, which I think is a huge plus also.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

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Here's what my kerosene heater and cookstove look like...

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[angeli]

The only thing I can add to all the good info above, is that you need to be vigilant about the kerosene you are getting. Sometimes you can pay for K-1 quality, and receive a lower grade. Even at Walmart, sometimes you just don't get what you pay for. If you burn K-1 quality kerosene, and your heater is in good repair, there should be no smell, no fumes. The only time I've had trouble, was when we accidentally used a low grade kerosene, the type that is supposed to be used (illegally) in big trucks to stretch the diesel. It smells like diesel, has horrible fumes, and will make you choke and smell like kerosene. Sometimes you will get this by mistake if the people you are buying from are not honest or careful. It's usually colored red, but not always. You can tell by the smell when you burn it.

BTW - I love those Butterfly stoves! I've got a single. Sadly, St. Pete's Mercantile, the big US vendor just went out of business. Waiting to see if anyone else will pick up the slack. Miles Stair is still the best for info.

 

[SoulRaven]

BTW - I love those Butterfly stoves! I've got a single. Sadly, St. Pete's Mercantile, the big US vendor just went out of business. Waiting to see if anyone else will pick up the slack. Miles Stair is still the best for info.

I love the Butterfly stoves too. I just traded my double for two singles last week... I was in charge of cooking at a huge church retreat, the power was out, and this other fellow loved my double burner. As fate would have it, he had two singles to trade me.

The pans they had were like 18 inchers, four of them, and I couldn't fit two on my double, so now I have four singles to handle those over sized pans.

Between those, all my lanterns, and my 23k BTU kerosene heater, we had a marvelous retreat in spite of having no power.

I too am watching and praying for St. Paul's Mercantile. They were one of the #1 boondocking, off grid, and survival sites in the country.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[compassrose]

For folks who aren't well versed in kerosine heaters, using a catalytic heater is probably best. If it's not all burning right then it is easier to see. We used kerosine heaters to heat our houses since winter power outages were normal due to ice storms. I sold off all our Aladdin kerosine heaters when we down sized. That was only three. I had them for years and never replaced the wicks. Only had to clean the wicks twice and that was due to bad kerosine. We used to keep one of the heaters in the popup for winter camping. Kerosine does not smell or soot unless fuel is fouled or wick is not adjusted right. My Aladdin lamp now has potpourri oil in it and will not be used for lighting while I own it.

 

[SoulRaven]

My Aladdin lamp now has potpourri oil in it and will not be used for lighting while I own it.

Greetings!

Are you burning that potpourri oil? Or???

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[compassrose]

Using it just for scenting the air. Most potpourri thingys are open and risk spilling or stuff (like dirt from the daily dust storms) would get in them (tried it). So I put the potpourri oil in the lamp and the wick draws the scented oil up and very lightly scents the air.

 

[Starlight]

This is such an interesting thread. I did some research and found some information that may apply here, although much of it is about lamps and types of fuel to use. It is clarifying. Different fuels require specific equipment and proper use and maintenance as well as proper storage.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f91/lamp-oil-vs-kerosene-23215-2.html

(some parts are edited)
"As odd as it may sound, lamp oil, kerosene and mineral spirits are not "flammable" liquids. In its most simple definition a flammable liquid is volitile enough at room temperature to give off vapors which burn. Methanol, gasoline, acetone, and the like are "flammable". At room temperature they give off vapors which can burn and even explode.

On the other hand, diesel fuel, lamp oil, kerosene, even vegetable oil are all liquids which give off burnable vapors only at elevated temperatures. They are classified as "combustable" liquids. A wick lamp burns because you put a match to the wick and heat the liquid right on the wick above
its "flash point" and it gives off vapors which then burn giving the flame which is the object of the exercise. It is self limiting because only the liquid right at the surface of the wick gets hot enough to give off burnable vapors.

Filling a wick lamp with methanol (or gasoline for that matter!) there is no such limiting factor. The liquid in the tank is giving off burnable vapors. The entire lamp is nothing but a molotov cocktail. There ARE lamps that are specifically made to burn alcohol and gasoline. Such lamps IMO have no place onboard a boat or in any confined space."

"Both kerosene and "lamp oil" are alkanes. Alkanes are straight chain or linear compounds with carbon atoms joined to each other by single bonds.
The first four alkanes are methane, ethane, propane and butane - all gasses. Methane has 1 carbon, ethane, 2, propane 3 and butane 4.

Kerosene is a mixture of hydrocarbons of the alkane series, consisting mainly of hydrocarbons with 11 or 12 carbon atoms. Paraffin (Weems & Plath lamp fuel, for example, is a highly-refined paraffin) consists of saturated hydrocarbons with 13 - 16 carbon atoms.

After 16 carbon atoms, alkanes are usually solid - wax."

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oops, one more thing
"DO NOT USE ALCOHOL BASED FUELS IN OIL LAMPS!!!!!"

 

[SoulRaven]

Using it just for scenting the air. Most potpourri thingys are open and risk spilling or stuff (like dirt from the daily dust storms) would get in them (tried it). So I put the potpourri oil in the lamp and the wick draws the scented oil up and very lightly scents the air.

Greetings!

I might just try that for a fun project.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[Redbearded]

I'm wondering if using a cheaper diesel parking heater (5000 BTU) which are clones of the Webasto stuff may be an interesting choice.
This guy is testing using different fuels in his (kerosene being one of them) and they vent all the by-products outside so that would reduce the danger significantly.



They seem to just sip fuel heating on high (full out) for and used 2 gallons in a bit over 24 hours.



If kerosene is a viable alternative that could lead to some very inexpensive/safe/reliable heating. Plus no moisture buildup!