How to increase ground clearance?

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Here's one page devoted to the Sienna with some useful information on tire sizes and part numbers for rear air bags that will lift the back a bit.

http://zenseeker.net/AdventureVans/AdventureVanPlatforms-ToyotaSienna.htm

Scroll down a bit to get to the info you need

It mentions that the Sienna has front McPherson Struts.  I have heard of people getting MILD lift by fitting a spacer block between the top of the strut and the body where it attaches.  Nobody seems to make this for the Sienna, for all the reasons HDR rightfully mentions, but a good machine shop could whip a couple out fairly easily on a lathe.  I wouldn't go more than an inch, too much will definitely impact your steering and probably shorten the life of your constant velocity joints on your half shafts.  Be advised that this kind of do-it-yourself redneck engineering is NOT for the faint of heart.

Regards
John

 

[akrvbob]

Sometimes you can just cut some sheet metal around the wheel well and get a larger tire. But then you'll run into issues with gear ratio and the speedometer. Chances are you would only gain an inch and that's probably not worth it.
Bob

 

[Gary68]

i googled "toyota sienna lift kit" and had a few options from basic rear air lift to full kits

 

[Bdog1]

Try wheelchair van converters. They do similar lifts.

 

[MikeRuth]

Hi all,  

I scanned this section and didn't see anything on suspension modifications, or air suspension installations...  so maybe a new thread...

I don't have my perfect "dream" rig.  And it would be financially stupid of me to drop what I have, and start over again.  So, I would like to find a way to increase my ground clearance, but NOT negatively effect gas mileage.  

Basically I'd like to go back-woods onto forest service roads. I have found miles of good roads, that are blocked in just a spot or two by ruts, rocks, branches.  

So, what about air-bag suspension?  Anyone know anything?  
I really don't know if this is a good idea, or how expensive it maybe.  I have heard that it is a DIY type of upgrade, for most.

I understand that one can even use a bicycle tire pump for simplicity's sake, and then just let the air out to drop it back down.  

I'd like to gain 4" of clearance for VERY VERY short distances so my gray & black water lines don't get damaged getting to my desired base-camp.  

I have an 19.5ft , 2002 Chinook, on a Ford van chassis.  

(i have used a shovel that I carry, but this is not always practical)

Possibly Gabriel Hi-Jackers!

http://gabriel.com/product-search/light-vehicle-detailed-specs/?partnum=49178 . That part number is for a E-150 Chassis

I used these on a Toyota FJ-55 Land Cruiser with very good results, I believe pumped to the max I gained 3" of body rise  when needed.

I'm thinking this is what I would use on my 2007 E-150 as a replacement shock. Simpler to install than bags. Not saying anything bad against the bags.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Possibly Gabriel Hi-Jackers!

http://gabriel.com/product-search/light-vehicle-detailed-specs/?partnum=49178 . That part number is for a E-150 Chassis

I used these on a Toyota FJ-55 Land Cruiser with very good results, I believe pumped to the max I gained 3" of body rise  when needed.

I'm thinking this is what I would use on my 2007 E-150 as a replacement shock. Simpler to install than bags. Not saying anything bad against the bags.

Mike, I'm going to politely disagree with you.  I sold auto parts for more than 20 years.  Air shocks, or the shocks with built in helper springs, are always a poor choice compared to air bags or helper springs between the frame and the axle.

Yeah, sometimes you can get away with them but sometimes you can't.  The shock mounting brackets weren't designed to be weight bearing, and I saw some instances where they just snapped off because they couldn't handle it.

Admittedly, it was usually an instance where somebody was trying to carry a god-awful amount of weight on a vehicle that really wasn't designed for it, so possibly you COULD get by if all you are trying to do is raise the body a little.

Still, to my mind, there's a right way and a wrong way to do things.  I'd go for air bags or helper springs.

Regards
John

 

[highdesertranger]

x2 on using a shock to raise a vehicle, the mounts were never designed to bear loads. I have said this many times on this forum, I will say it again. do not try to put a suspension lift on a independent suspension vehicle, in the long run it will cost you much more then a decent 4x4 will cost. with independent suspension vehicles the only reliable method of raising it is a 1 inch body lift and the tallest tires that will not rub. I am not saying this for any financial gain I am telling this from experience I worked in a 4x4 shop for many years and I have lifted every type of vehicle and lifted independent suspension vehicles are not reliable. any body lift over 1 inch is not reliable. if you don't heed this advice you are ruining your vehicle I don't care what anybody says it's plain and simple. my 2 cents. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

I've also heard about air or spring 'load assist' shocks damaging vehicles where they mount to the frame or axle.  My dodge b250 only has a 1/2 inch diameter bolt going through the frame to support the shock, and the frame is not heavily reinforced. I've heard the bolt actually bends the frame when load assist shocks are used and the vehicle driven hard on rough roads heavily loaded.  The lower shock mounts on the axles hardly look capable of supporting the weight, and with both mounts offset  off  the same side of the Axle tube, would try and twist the axle, and put more pressure on the Universal joint.


A shock can only exert so much force on the mounting hardware no matter how stiff it might be.  Add the load from bearing a portion of vehicle weight, and factor in metal fatigue, and such a vehicle 'might' have issues, or perhaps it is better said, it will have issues, at some point if kept on the road long enough..

And of course at the worst possible time, when most heavily loaded and out in west central bumblescrew.

My goals were to restore ride height and increase handling. Tired springs on a old van carrying a lot of weight is dangerous, as it will handle poorly.  I see a few dweller vehicles in these parts that look like they are carrying 25 bags of cement.  Their headlights must hit the trees.

Vehicles adding more spring to return ride height because of increased weight and age, must also consider their brakes.  My brakes used to be down right scary they were so anemic.  Now with new calipers, new MC, properly adjusted rear brakes and Hawk HPS pads up front on Brembo rotors, Stopping power is downright impressive.  Of the 4 modern cars I've driven since my brake job, all of them require more brake pedal pressure to stop.  I even have slightly oversized tires, which add even more work for the brakes as taller tire = a  longer lever.

If there is no Airbag or metal leaf spring helper option like Helwig for any given vehicle, then the load assist shocks are the last resort.  Just don't crank the springs to full tension or max out the PSI on the airshocks.

I know Gabriel sells spring loaded shocks for the front and rear  of my Vehicle.  I wonder about their actual  dampening ability, compared to a Shock like KYB Gas a Just, which are stiff, and vastly improved the handling of my Van, even Before I rebuilt my front suspension.  I went a few months with old worn out standard Gabriels on the rear axle after I added Airbags, and they were not able to properly dampen the Airbags's springyness.  The KYB's silenced it.

The load assist shocks seem like too many compromises in one well marketed package.

 

[highdesertranger]

wow kyb's a blast from the past for me. great shocks stern. you will not be disappointed with them. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

wow kyb's a blast from the past for me.  great shocks stern.  you will not be disappointed with them.  highdesertranger

Had them for 8 years now.  Love them.  They ride stiff, but improve handling and confidence.  I despised the soft, floaty, removed from the road feel of Monroe sensa tracs.  Returned them after 10 miles.

Amazing what a good shock can do.

 

[MikeRuth]

Good points folks, I just mention them cause I had them on the FJ-55 for so many years and no problem, then again a FJ-55 was built like a tank!.

Mike R

 

[Belinda2]

Highdesertranger,
I appreciate your honesty. I am a realist. I was afraid this was the answer because I've never seen it done. I'm just a little frightened with the winter weather. I only have an 6" clearance from the ground. Between that and getting frozen INSIDE the minivan at night, I'm in a bind.

 

[highdesertranger]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, however it wouldn't be right to mislead you either. well seeing how we are going into summer you have plenty of time to get a plan. I am guessing another type of vehicle or moving to where it doesn't snow as much is not an option? highdesertranger

 

[Belinda2]

Highdesertranger,
Moving from this location, currently is not an option. I am in the process currently of selling my farm. I am living 24/7 off the grid in my driveway. Once I sell this, I will be totally FREE!
Coil, leaf, and air springs are all going to have to be custom designed for a minivan.
The Toyota dealer says that trailer tires in 10 ply and 8 ply are not available for minivans and that I can only get 4 ply tires. The Toyota dealer is recommending Quick Struts that are made for my Sienna Minivan at $800 for just the back. They say with a consistent load on the struts, I will only get 20,000 miles out of them. That is just too expensive for such a short time period.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The Toyota dealer says that trailer tires in 10 ply and 8 ply are not available for minivans and that I can only get 4 ply tires.

You would NOT want to use trailer tires on any vehicle with an engine.  I'm not even sure that it is technically legal to do so.  However, I would NOT take a car dealer's word as final regarding what is, or is not, available.  Check with a few tire places.  Unless your minivan is running a VERY odd tire size, I would expect that there would be Light Truck tires of 6 or 8 ply, at least, to fit it.

Regards
John

 

[ccbreder]

Some vehicles are not meant to go off paved roads.

 

[Belinda2]

That's right CCBreder, the 2 and 4 wheel drive are not built for off road. My current tires are: Cooper 225/60R17 CS4 Touring. LT (light truck) tires could handle the weight I am putting on the minivan. There are no light truck tires that will fit the rim size of 17 for a minivan. Getting a tire that increases the height of the vehicle won't fix the problem either. I will have to get the suspension fixed, because it will eventually bottom out in the back. To save money, I am looking currently at a place in Baltimore called Peters Spring Works. I am hoping they can design me a heavier spring that will make any struts I get last longer than 20,000 miles. Other tire companies say, with the heavier springs I should get 100,000 miles then out of the struts I put on. I will keep everyone posted.

 

[Belinda2]

Great News! I have the answer!!!
According to Peters Spring Works in Baltimore City, 410-685-0606; 1-800-296-0606 The Timber Kit fits the Toyota Sienna Minivan. This is a "helper spring". I do not need the additional costly struts!!! The kit is $190 and the labor is anywhere from $90-150. I had to pre-order the item a week ahead. The carrying capacity is 2400 pounds and has a guarantee for life.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

That's right CCBreder, the 2 and 4 wheel drive are not built for off road. My current tires are: Cooper 225/60R17 CS4 Touring. LT (light truck) tires could handle the weight I am putting on the minivan. There are no light truck tires that will fit the rim size of 17 for a minivan.

Yokohama makes their Geolander A/T-S on-road/off-road tire in 225/60R17.  They are used on some Subarus  that go off road.  They are rated for 1700 lbs. each, or 3400 lbs. for the back axle.  It has an overall diameter of 27.1 inches.

The same tire is available as a 225/70R17 that are rated for 2200 lbs., or 4400 lbs. for the back axle.  They are 29.6 inches in diameter, which is unlikely to be a problem for you.

There is also a light truck tire, LT235/80R17 that is an E rated tire, good for 3000 lbs. a tire, but the diameter is 32 inches, that may be problematical. 

How much weight do you anticipate needing to carry?

Regards
John

 

[Belinda2]

John,
I have not gone to a truck stop and weighed my vehicle. I have only owned it since last July. I will look into your tire recommendations and get back with you. I will need new tires soon anyway. Thank you.