How to increase ground clearance?

[flailer]

Hi all,

I scanned this section and didn't see anything on suspension modifications, or air suspension installations... so maybe a new thread...

I don't have my perfect "dream" rig. And it would be financially stupid of me to drop what I have, and start over again. So, I would like to find a way to increase my ground clearance, but NOT negatively effect gas mileage.

Basically I'd like to go back-woods onto forest service roads. I have found miles of good roads, that are blocked in just a spot or two by ruts, rocks, branches.

So, what about air-bag suspension? Anyone know anything?
I really don't know if this is a good idea, or how expensive it maybe. I have heard that it is a DIY type of upgrade, for most.

I understand that one can even use a bicycle tire pump for simplicity's sake, and then just let the air out to drop it back down.

I'd like to gain 4" of clearance for VERY VERY short distances so my gray & black water lines don't get damaged getting to my desired base-camp.

I have an 19.5ft , 2002 Chinook, on a Ford van chassis.

(i have used a shovel that I carry, but this is not always practical)

 

[akrvbob]

Can you describe your rig a little better, is it a Class B or Class C? How far away from being a stock van is it?

With a straight van the easiest and cheapest is with a body lift. You just put spacers between the body and chassis. But I have no idea how that would affect the RV components.

Another fairly easy way is to put on bigger tires, but that will affect your gear ratio and who knows how much clearance you have around the RV body for bigger tires?

I think I'd take it to a shop that specializes in lifts and 4x4s. In the best of situations adding a lift can have negative unexpected consequences and I think that would be doubly true if you mix in an RV.
Bob

 

[flailer]

Thanks Bob.

Yeah, I'm not going to lift it, for the reasons you discuss, as well as the reduction in mileage.

In several ways I am glad I didnt get my "dream rig". i.e. I was in Big Sur 2 weeks ago, & saw a van kitted 2 steps beyond what I was considering (the guy threw tons of money into the van), and I could tell he never gets any use out of the meaty tires and 8" lift. Half the size of my rig, & prolly gets half the mileage too. Top heavy & Ridiculous for pavement use.

So, if I can't raise the clearance, for JUST 3 mile of dirt (in a 800 mile trip) and drop it back again: I simply aint gunna do it.

Step 1: upgrade the solar
Step 2: fix the body work
Step 3: consider air-bag suspension
Step 4: research viability of micro hydro power generation (as many places I love to camp have mega trees (shade), but have running water)
Step 5: pull a "Harry Potter" & wave a magic wand: making the inside of the rig much larger than the outside of the rig

~ Steps 4 and 5 will truly be magical ~
wish me luck

---

Oh, sorry I didnt answer your question.
.... but I dont know the answer to Class B or C question.
Yes, I am that big'a Noob :blush:

 

[flailer]

Well, for anyone else following this, check this out:
http://www.autoanything.com/suspension-systems/61a2966a0a0.aspx

And this too: (yes, i know it is a string of commercials, but they do have a 60 day money back) :



AND: how to install:

 

[SternWake]

I have added firestone ride rite bags to my rear suspension on a dodge Van. When both bags are pumped to 100 psi, the rear end rised 4.5 inches +, and it rides rock hard and turns flat, and the headlamps hit the pavement 15 feet in front of the van.

I usually keep 15 and 25 psi in passenger drivers side to even it out side to side, but I recently removed a bunch of tools for a road trip and found 5 and 10 evened it out side to side and gave the same clearance as the front.

The front has thicker coil springs which did not raise the ground clearance passenger side and only by 0.5 inches driver side, but I no longer bottom out.

I plumbed the bags separately, and put the fill valves(schrader valves) inside my Van and use my air compressor to adjust them from within.

This is nice for sleeping on an inclined road. 100 Psi on curbside and 0 psi street side can really make a huge difference in interior level, and few people notice that it is the only vehicle parked on the street that is sitting level or nearly so.

When I pump up one bag to 100 Psi, then the other to 100 psi, I found the first bag decreased to 75 PSI, and then bringing that bag upto 100 psi again adds nearly another inch of height to that side.


I love the airbags, but there is no airbag product available for the front to adjust height. Perhaps some airshocks could help to some degree but I think the lower shock mount is not strong enough to help support the weight of the vehicle and would cause premature failure.

I would not want to use a bike pump to bring these bags to 100 psi. my 12v electric pump is pretty fast, among the fastest, as far as 12v air compressors go, and it still takes a good 30 to 40 seconds to goto 100 psi, depending on battery voltage at the time

I believe extended driving with the rear end only pushed up 4.5 to 5 inches would wear the driveshaft U joints faster as the angles they compensate for are increased.

Also for off roading, in general, a softer suspension will give maximum traction. with my bags pumped to 100 psi there is very little suspension travel and the rear wheels obviously break loose on dirt or wet roads much easier but I have an open differential too.

However I'd never get rid of them. I love the adjustability and the fact that my van does not look weighed down. In fact I recently got a few remarks about the stance when on the road, and I just had the rear end sitting the same height as the front, not even the forward leaning stink bug stance which turns some gearheads on.

With 100 psi in both bags, the wheel wells make the slightly oversized tires on stock rims look tiny. When stealthing, I'd pump to 100 psi, drive to my spot, then reduce the air on the street side bag to 0 leaving the passenger side at 100 for levelling purposes.

There is however some creaking involved which is not too stealthy.

When on twisty turny roads I like to park level and bust out the tape measure and make side to side clearance exactly the same via air pressure and keep it the same as the front. I felt confident descending some mountain roads at unsafe speeds recently. Im sure a passenger woulda been freaked out, but I was one with my machine and was scrubbing some tread from my tires with glee when they were hissing around corners pushed to the limits of their traction.

There are Timbrens which are like glorified bump stops and can increase spring rate, and perhaps raise ground clearance on overloaded vehicles, of which many RV's are.

My rear bump stops were replaced with the airbags but the front suspension bump stops are still there, however I do not feel the need for more spring there.

 

[flailer]

WOW! Thanks SternWake!
That is just the kind of feed back I was looking for !!!

4.5 inches, that is GREAT. And more than worth the prices I have seen so far.

I was hoping for the possibility of leveling too, and you answered that!

I wasnt planning on doing the front end, as it has clearance. But I was curious if it maybe a wise thing to do when doing the back end. You didnt

Are you glad you chose the Firestone brand?

Pressure adjustments from the inside? Hmmmm. I was thinking bicycle pump from the outside. I'm going to have to question both those assumptions.

I hear you on the u-joint wear! Nope, not me. I'll lift for short periods, then drop it back down!

Thanks again!!

 

[SternWake]

Both FS airbags originally sent had small leaks. But summitt replaced them and the replacements lose no air, and they say a psi or two a month is to be expected.

I.think the airlift kit on my van woulda intefered too much with the exhaust pipe with the single bellow. Even with a double bellow which should not increase in diameter as much when compressed. I had to modify my exhaust a bit for clearance. And i made a larger heatshield from a pizza tray and rivits.

Anyone going off road should carry an air compressor. Ive modified a masterflow.mv 50 for better performance and reliability. Compact and fast.

I cant guarantee it will raise other vehicles 4.5 inches. My leafs are tired but it does not take much psi to return ride height. I think firestone says bags must be inflated at least 5 psi. I think airlift says 10 psi minimum.

The bags firms l the ride in the rear, and rear passengers might protest.
I rarely have passengers to protest, but if unloaded completely the rear might ride a bit high at 10 psi.

So i am glad i went with firestone.

the 'no drill' claim was a joke. Can you imagine using self drilling 1/4 inch screws into 1/4 inch thick steel with a ratchet? I drilled pilot holes and used a power drill to drive the self drilling screws in my 'no drill kit'. And it still took a lot of effort and pressure.

Double check that

 

[flailer]

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah; THANKS!

Hmmm. If you got 4.5+ inches, I should get more. I say that because I am guessing that the rear-end my rig is cantilevered further, out past the rear axle, than on your rig. Longer leverage arm, greater height.

But, that is really not the point, as my black-water line is more than half-way back towards the axle. Hmmmm. Heck, even 2 inches would be an improvement.

 

[Seraphim]

Both FS airbags originally sent had small leaks. But summitt replaced them and the replacements lose no air, and they say a psi or two a month is to be expected.

I.think the airlift kit on my van woulda intefered too much with the exhaust pipe with the single bellow. Even with a double bellow which should not increase in diameter as much when compressed. I had to modify my exhaust a bit for clearance. And i made a larger heatshield from a pizza tray and rivits.

Anyone going off road should carry an air compressor. Ive modified a masterflow.mv 50 for better performance and reliability. Compact and fast.

I cant guarantee it will raise other vehicles 4.5 inches. My leafs are tired but it does not take much psi to return ride height. I think firestone says bags must be inflated at least 5 psi. I think airlift says 10 psi minimum.

The bags firms l the ride in the rear, and rear passengers might protest.
I rarely have passengers to protest, but if unloaded completely the rear might ride a bit high at 10 psi.

So i am glad i went with firestone.

the 'no drill' claim was a joke. Can you imagine using self drilling 1/4 inch screws into 1/4 inch thick steel with a ratchet? I drilled pilot holes and used a power drill to drive the self drilling screws in my 'no drill kit'. And it still took a lot of effort and pressure.

Double check that

The brackets don't always exactly fit, either. We had to notch the brackets to make them fit. Installed the Firestones as well on the rear of the truck, to deal with the weight of the truck camper; prevents rocking going down the road. 80 psi does the trick, but we've got 4000 to 5000 pounds in the bed of the truck.

We installed a frame mounted compressor, with a gauge and activation switch in the cab. It's worth the extra money. Made a sheet metal case to cover the compressor, and caulked it water tight. Just push a button and the compressor comes on, or releases pressure.

If you really want the front end lifted, go to a low rider site and see how they mount airbags. Personally, it doesn't seem worth the expense and effort for a few short miles. We drove the Alaskan Highway, and the ability to change pressure from inside the cab was priceless.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok here you go. I have lifted hundreds of vehicles. to actually lift a vehicle you must put taller tires on it. you will not gain ground clearance unless you do. your lowest points are your lower a arms and the center(low point) of your rear end. the only thing that will raise those points are taller tires. you can raise the truck 10 inches but if you have the same tires on you still have the same ground clearance. however if you are not concerned about your a arms or rear end rear air bags will lift your rear body up. air bags come in kits and one is probably available for your vehicle. you will not like pumping air bags up with a hand pump, you need some type of compressor. if you think the a arms and rear diff can handle it post up and I will point out several reasons why you should be concerned. highdesertranger

 

[flailer]

Thanks Man! I totally agree : large diameter tires (and whatever it take to get them on) is the way to go.

But all I want is clearance for drain lines for the black & gray water tanks. (they hang down VERY low). And so far, I only need the extra clearance for VERY short periods / distances.

I do NOT want a higher center of gravity. I do NOT want to negatively impact mileage. As your way is clearly the best, & most functional, I'd do it if I knew how to do so without having the impact discussed.

Your input is what I was hoping for, particularly as you have done so many vehicles. But i still don't see (am i blind?) a solution to my objective.

 

[highdesertranger]

well air bags will help raise your body where your drain pipes are, so it will help. I wasn't trying to be anti airbag, I love them and run them myself. believe me for what you want you need a on board compressor and an airbag controller. that way you just sit there in your driver seat, when you need to raise your vehicle you just hit the switch the air bags pump up usually takes less than a minute, drive over your obstacle, hit the switch again to let the air out this takes just a few seconds. here is another tip I have done on some rv's and tt. build yourself a skid plate to protect your drain pipes, this must be strong enough to support the weight of the vehicle or you will just crush the skid plate along with you drain pipes. this works great on trailers, but on mh's the skid plate could hang you up(high centered) so you could loose traction. all things must be assessed when doing this. this is another reason I am building my own trailer. highdesertranger

 

[flailer]

Thanks Man.

While doing what i do, I too am keeping my mind open to adding, or converting to, a cargo trailer.

I'm really not happy with the limited number & types of "toys" I can take with me.

 

[SternWake]

Id really enjoy flipping some switches from the drivers seat to change airbag psi. But
It is not very high on my todo list.

When I stealth level in place i pick up compressor while it is running to minimize noise transference to body. Id like to re purpose a compressor tank and install it underbody. But again, Not high on the list.

Schrader valves inside and easy to access them and compressor has been good enough. A regular bicycle pump to air them, Or tires up. would not come close to good enough, except in an emergency, for me.

 

[Bdog1]

Fabricating a skid plate to protect the fragile part?

 

[flailer]

ah, not gunna work, i think: Fiberglass body and under-panels. Little else to mount to. Besides, the thing is a pig; it would take 1/2 steel, weight a ton, creating more problems and, Sadly, reducing clearance further.

But i like where you were going with it!

---

You guys got me thinking:
I'm wondering if I can't make a disconnect - a slip-on disconnect. So that the whole drain-piping mess (which is rarely used anyway) is normally not on. And then, just pop it on when draining is required.

Tomorrow, I'm gunna go out and see what I can see (when it's light)

It's an idea. But prolly no good way to get it done.
And where would I store this yucky messy poopy thing normally? gag me with a backhoe

 

[flailer]

Well (for anyone following this thread), it looks VERY straight forward to gain clearance under my rig by simply modifying the black & gray water drain lines.

(Cutting and separating the two lines from one another) Cutting the black line means gaining about 3". I would need to add back in a new drain valve, & flex line connector. Both of which is no problem. The only problem I see is that the new connection point for the flex line would be about 18" up & under the chassis, rather than easy access at the edge of the fiberglass body panel.

But, cutting the gray line means that only 1 or so inches clearance would be gained, as there is so little "fall" on the gray water line. That, plus the gray water tank hangs down so low.

So, now I am consider removing the large bulky gray water tank completely, and replacing it with a much smaller, up higher, tank. and of course using a separate drain line for it; not tying it to the black water line. FYI, I use my gray water tanks rarely, so I don't mind it being smaller.

BUT: all that said: I see the same clearance gains by just adding airbags. And with airbags I will not lose any capacity / volume, or, more importantly: lose the convenient hook-ups (which is an advanage) of the current system.

So, airbags first. And if there still isn't enough clearance: Plan B; cut lines, replace gray water tank.

Any further thoughts? Thanks for your great thoughts & ideas!!

 

[highdesertranger]

glad you got a plan. let us know how it works out. highdesertranger

 

[Belinda2]

I too am having this problem with my Toyota Sienna minivan. I went to lift places and 4 X 4 places and everyone says there is nothing I can do. I don't pull a trailer and I don't go off road. I will need new tires soon, so I could look into the large diameter trailer tires. But, can anyone find a kit for me on Amazon that I could show some people and maybe get this done?

 

[highdesertranger]

I believe all you can do is to put taller tires on. fit the tallest tire that doesn't rub. does the sienna have a frame or is it unibody?if it has a frame(I doubt) you could do a small(1inch) body lift. lift kits are only available for vehicles that are considered for off road. of which your Toyota does not qualify. if someone is going to engineer a lift kit they want to make money selling it, not enough of a demand for a sienna lift kit. you could probably find someone to do one but I wouldn't, your vehicle was never design for the added stress a lift kit would bring. sorry I am not trying to burst your balloon just giving you facts. highdesertranger