How soon will electric or hybrid vans/RVs be common?

[abnorm]

and another.......................

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_a609f8aa-7443-11ee-83d3-df5b22909078.html

 

[user 22017]

and another.......................

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_a609f8aa-7443-11ee-83d3-df5b22909078.html

The Center Square is put out by the Franklin Center (a right-leaning, small government, Libertarian "news" source. Center Square was established in 2019.

Franklin Center Called Out for Blocking Action on Climate Change​

In July of 2016, nineteen U.S. Senators delivered a series of speeches denouncing climate change denial from 32 organizations with links to fossil-fuel interests, including the Franklin Center.[15] Sen. Whitehouse (RI-D), who led the effort to expose "the web of denial" said in his remarks on the floor that the purpose was to,

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.p...led_Out_for_Blocking_Action_on_Climate_Change
And...

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/franklin-center-for-government-and-public-integrity/

 

[bullfrog !]

My electric bicycle caused me to have to stabilize the gasoline in my vehicles tank because I haven’t driven it in a month, so there is an extra cost! Lol!!!

 

[rruff]

Really? You found that?

Well... I found that by checking their info, they were FOS. Obviously I didn't check them all, but I only have so much time and patience...

 

[rruff]

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_a609f8aa-7443-11ee-83d3-df5b22909078.html

Ok Carla, this one is a good example. I didn't need to go past the first paragraph. The "subsidies" and "credits" have absolutely nothing to do with the cost of fuel. Total BS.

 

[RonDean]

To each thier own. I love ICE vehicles & personally do not belive the hype about how green EV's are. It takes over 10 years for EV's to finally offset the pollution they created during production.

Just getting the rare earth material for the batteries is destroying the environment and SLAVE LABOR to boot.

Personally for nomadic living steer clear of EV junk. ICE vehicles will be dominating the market for the next 30 years and beyond.

I think we have to be aware there are many variables in such a repayment number, whether it be pollution or cost to drive and service or health concerns from mining minerals to finally putting the vehicle in it's grave. And perhaps the biggest variable of all is what the folks saying it want to prove. I would take exception to you numbers, but then I DON"T have a love affair with ICEs and every source I can find also disagrees with you. Perhaps you would like to provide your sources?

 

[Happy Camper]

I had more too say. But...

 

[Fork King]

To manufacture each EV battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, 25,000 pounds of ore for copper Diging up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust For just - one - battery.

This sounds very environmental to me.

I have no problems with new tech. Just tired of all the people pushing EV's thinking they are cleaner for the environment.

I love being able to fix / repair/ get parts and fuel and go in 5 minutes in my ICE vehicles. Gas and Diesel have come a long way in MPG. A modern V8 truck engine can get 20+ MPG nowadays, that's pretty cool.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^So I guess you wouldn’t mind a vehicle with no battery systems and therefore no battery that you have to kick or hand crank get get rid of that environmentally bad battery in order to continue using petroleum products in your tiny efficient engine! Lol!!!

 

[Fork King]

Lol you are exactly the people that have been brainwashed by big tech and the government lmao. Good luck in your BEV.

Me an my tiny efficient engine will enjoy the good life rolling coal for many years to come YEEHAW.

If you and Big Tech / Government were so environmental and cared so much why not go with Hydrogen. Easy on the planet very low environmental impact compared to BEV and ICE.

Why... Because Big Tech / Government is so heavily invested in BEV because the elites are making money hands over fists and Sheeple buy into it like a fly on poop.

 

[user 22017]

To manufacture each EV battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, 25,000 pounds of ore for copper Diging up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust For just - one - battery.

This sounds very environmental to me.

I have no problems with new tech. Just tired of all the people pushing EV's thinking they are cleaner for the environment.

I love being able to fix / repair/ get parts and fuel and go in 5 minutes in my ICE vehicles. Gas and Diesel have come a long way in MPG. A modern V8 truck engine can get 20+ MPG nowadays, that's pretty cool.

I don't like lithium batteries either. We're supposed to be moving away from extraction. Instead, ppl are going bananas over lithium. But that is par for the course for baby boomers.

IMO, the solution is to stop buying so much stuff. It is not necessary and it is harmful to the environment. That would allow everyone to work less, so less driving. Work from home when it makes sense. There are all kinds of solutions, but if they challenge capitalism, they get ridiculed and/or discredited.

 

[bullfrog !]

I agree there are several aspects to consider. “Rolling coal” in a lifted one ton 4x4 truck driven with no load other than a person convinced by marketing and influencers that it is a cool way to waste their time and money makes me agree that everyone should have had a 1986 Honda 4 speed manual Civic hatchback high mileage version that carried 4 people, without AC got 44 MPG in town and an amazing 55 MPG doing 80 MPH on the freeway for hours and all for a new price of $6,000. All freight and long distance travel should have been by high speed trains with special platform cars for vehicles and delivery trucks (they used to do that with motorhomes touring in Mexico) but again the marketing people and influencers weren’t making any money. A lot of people still haven’t learned it seems to try to conserve and do more with less to make their lives and everyone’s lives better. The ones that have sure aren’t out there “Rolling coal”! I agree people like Elon Musk have way too much money to use buying political favor and influencing people to destroy the planet he is trying to leave! Lol!!!

 

[Gr8ful]

Trains are hybrids. Electric motors ran by diesel gensets. It was mentioned hand cranking & giving up starting batteries but they are lead acid & recyclable. How much pollution is made digging up 500000# of the earth & the hauling & processing? Also only 2 of us seem to care about the Child Slave Labor that mines for your wonderful batteries. Kill the Children & the Earth! Sad,Very Sad IMHO. Keep beating the dead horse!

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^I agree with you that child labor laws/rules need to be made and enforced but children are being abused in several other industries besides mining, just look at the recent cases in our own country by the meat packing industry. I also agree as long as people like Elon Musk continue to get richer by using child and slave labor around the world using the political power that increased money buys the situation will not get better. It seems obvious to me that somewhere along the line the money the rich make by promoting inefficient and polluting products rather than developing better products or products that science and research have proven to work better if developed needs to be used to fix these problems. Economical cars ( I know they can be made, I had one and wore it completely out and couldn’t buy another one that worked as well because they “improved” them ) better trains and tracks all are only a part of our transportation system and economy. A little money is finally being spent on our infrastructure but much more needs to be done and taxes on those responsible for slowly destroying our environment that have become rich need to pay. These entities have been and are being allowed to destroy our earth and its environment. Big problems it seems no country can deal with, so as individuals we can try in our daily lives to do better. As noted above we do the best we can with the situation until we can change it. No change is without complications but it has been proven change is necessary so the complications need to be dealt with. Encouraging people to enlighten themselves and use as little resources as possible isn’t very popular in this country but it needs to be said and encouraged. Hopefully governments will pay attention to science and individuals that make their life’s work to develop better products not just those that want to get rich. Electric power’s limiting factor seems to be the ability to store the power. The less we use the less of a problem it is. The atom is still the most efficient least polluting energy source 24/7. We just don’t seem able to deal with the complications that come with it sadly.

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

I'm not impressed with a cost analysis comparing gas to electric that amortizes the cost of the electric vehicle and generating capacity of the electric utility but doesn't do the same on the gasoline side.

Besides - those numbers are largely false - the amortized production costs of electric generation are already mostly included in the utility rate.

Lithium is not sustainable for much longer - even though it can be effectively recycled.

Fortunately, new technology is going to pass lithium by - new sodium batteries are going to be 1/4th the cost, more powerful, and last longer. Solid-state batteries may be even better. Lithium is a dying tech - don't invest in it.


I still don't think all electric is a reasonable solution for anything but local-only commuting. But plug-in hybrids are viable.

 

[RonDean]

I still don't see Fork King's sources. As far as the slave labor, is that going to happen in the recently discovered Nevada/Oregon Lithium deposit?
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...der-region/articleshow/103685451.cms?from=mdr
I was hoping for a data and sourced discussion on this topic instead of "I've already made up my mind" opinions. But it doesn't look like that will happen, so I won't bother continuing to beat this dead horse either.

 

[Gr8ful]

Here's a good read from a trucker. https://thepatriotchronicles.com/ne...roys-green-energy-narrative-with-simple-math/

 

[RonDean]

Here's a good read from a trucker. https://thepatriotchronicles.com/ne...roys-green-energy-narrative-with-simple-math/

I think that really IS a biased source. But I read the article anyway and can agree that with the current technology an EV logging truck is probably not going to be very practical.

 

[bullfrog !]

I was an educator for many years. I’m used to beating dead horses! Lol!!! I was taught at a very young age plowing with mules “You got to get their attention first!”.

 

[Gr8ful]

I think that really IS a biased source. But I read the article anyway and can agree that with the current technology an EV logging truck is probably not going to be very practical.

I posted 5 random sources & you didn't like "truth electric cars" No source is more biased than carbon biased that you posted. See you're back beating the poor dead horse too.