How soon will electric or hybrid vans/RVs be common?

[bullfrog !]

Lol!!! My 1987 Suzuki Samurai that I inherited is getting more valuable every day! I can still buy new substandard parts out of India as a basically similar vehicle is still being manufactured there. Also explains why I am beginning to see a lot of information on 25 year old small imported trucks! Since many states are allowing UTVs on many public roads manufacturers are starting to build more powerful and delux models with enclosed 4 seat cabs with heat and air conditioning and price tags of around $50,000. Crazy costs for something that goes more than 70 miles an hour but can’t be taken on interstates or many highways!

 

[rruff]

Crazy costs for something that goes more than 70 miles an hour but can’t be taken on interstates or many highways!

It is interesting that little is designed and marketed for low-middle income people. Rather the rich buy new expensive toys, and every one else gets used versions of these toys. A used expensive toy has poor utility.

 

[Gr8ful]

Lol!!! My 1987 Suzuki Samurai that I inherited is getting more valuable every day! I can still buy new substandard parts out of India as a basically similar vehicle is still being manufactured there. Also explains why I am beginning to see a lot of information on 25 year old small imported trucks! Since many states are allowing UTVs on many public roads manufacturers are starting to build more powerful and delux models with enclosed 4 seat cabs with heat and air conditioning and price tags of around $50,000. Crazy costs for something that goes more than 70 miles an hour but can’t be taken on interstates or many highways!

I had a blue Samurai that was a rental in Hawaii. Low miles, like new. Paid $1400 with a bad clutch, put 6.00 tall aggressive tires & a lift kit & left it at the remote cabin in the U.P. The great thing about them is they had a short driveshaft between the engine & transfer case so engine swaps were easy. Had a 50 hp diesel for it but lost it when the cabin burned down. I had a couple more but not as nice. I knew a guy had one of the first with the 640cc snowmobile 2 stroke engines.

 

[bullfrog !]

Point is that there seems to me to be a need for cheap basic transportation that is somewhat weather proof and capable of being licensed and insured for public streets. It would even better if it was capable of minimum speeds required for highways and possibly interstate highways as there are places difficult to get to without using them. The Samurai is sort of a rarity as it can be licensed and insured for public roads and is capable of speeds for highway use barely. Used ones in good condition cost about 1/2 the price of the cheapest new car. Most average about 25 MPG and ride so stiff you are done riding before you run out a tank of fuel! Lol!!! They can be flat towed according to the factory 200 miles at a time by putting the transfer case in neutral and the trans in second gear with the front hubs unlocked but too risky for me as I just take out the rear drive shaft and unlock the front hubs. In the early 1970’s had a friend buy one that he carried in the bed of his four wheel drive truck instead of a spare tire.

 

[RonDean]

As I understand it, however nice a $7500 tax credit might sound, if you are living on your SSI and have no tax liability you'll get no help buying a new EV. Sounds kind of unfair to me.

 

[rruff]

As I understand it, however nice a $7500 tax credit might sound, if you are living on your SSI and have no tax liability you'll get no help buying a new EV. Sounds kind of unfair to me.

Precisely... these deals are only for people with money...

 

[Happy Camper]

As I understand it, however nice a $7500 tax credit might sound, if you are living on your SSI and have no tax liability you'll get no help buying a new EV. Sounds kind of unfair to me.

What, you thought they were actually giving breaks to people that need them? That's just silly.

But it does look good when they keep saying the numbers of EV sold and how the credits are working so well.

 

[rruff]

Point is that there seems to me to be a need for cheap basic transportation that is somewhat weather proof and capable of being licensed and insured for public streets. It would even better if it was capable of minimum speeds required for highways and possibly interstate highways

The power to overcome wind resistance is proportional to V^3. And it isn't possible to get the aero drag coefficient really low in something that you want to drive, and definitely not if you want to comfortably live in it. So going fast consumes a lot of energy, fuel, battery juice. There are very few places where an interstate is the only option, and if you must, you can put on your blinkers and drive on the shoulder. Are you in a hurry?...

This site is dedicated to living in your vehicle on a low budget. The ideal vehicle is lightweight but high volume (living space), low powered but fairly aerodynamic, simple and cheap, and rugged enough to drive offroad. The authorities constantly get more ridiculous with their standards, forcing ever more heavy, powerful, complex, and expensive vehicles on us.

However... last time I checked... there is still a decent amount of freedom in DIY. EVs are inherently simple, and the tech is advanced enough to be viable... so if you want a light EV that you can live in and charge with solar panels, you can at least build your own.

A comment on the bicycle and trailer posted earlier. The energy supplied via the pedals is a pittance... nearly irrelevant. The average person who is in good shape and accustomed to cycling might be ok adding 100W for 10 hr trip, or 1,000 KWh. This is about 1/10th the battery capacity, and a small fraction of the motor output. The only reason they put pedals on these is because the authorities have less ridiculous rules if it's an "ebike". It adds unnecessary complication, and it's stupid. We need a "light quadcycle" class like they have in Europe, that allows sensible light and simple vehicles.

 

[Gr8ful]

I have a matched pair of e-type bikes with NO pedals that could easily be made into a "light quadcycle" Put a lightweight very adjustable LW chair that makes a bed, vinyl roof with sides that roll down for a tent, flex or light solar panels & use a bike trailer if needed. Use both motors for a quick start & 1 motor for cruise & I have 2 spare batteries. This would be an easy, cheap & fun build. I loved to bike until I broke my back so this might work well for me!

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^they are already out there with some really unbelievable off road capabilities and trailers as well you could adapt to camping. The problem is most are wider than the average bike lane and are limited to lower speeds. A small hybrid SUV is basically the solution but not near as much fun! Lol!!! I also have a matched pair of electric bikes maybe a lazy boy chair could be fit between them or maybe a camper version of a Cyclekart. There used to be electric pusher trailers for bicycles that concept could be expanded into a camper.

 

[RonDean]

I think Rruff is right to pull us back to the purpose of this site/forum. "Cheap RV Living!" We all have opinions on events and trends of the day (I know I certainly do) but this might not be the best place to pontificate on all of them.

That said, we do stray into areas that do impinge on many of us and at first glance maybe not so much on RV life. You can't have cheap rv living without some form of income, for example. So, discussions about social security and part time jobs seem totally appropriate to me, just as an example.

In this thread we are talking about EVs. Admittedly, all electric RV-EVs are not yet a thing. But there are electric vehicles capable of pulling a light trailer of some sort. And the folks living in a Prius are as much in our community as people living in a giant diesel-powered bus. I think so anyway. The question was WHEN do we think hybrid or EV-RVs might be a thing. I am hoping for sooner rather than later. And as an aside, this might be helped by changes in our laws, infrastructure, and expectations as much as changes in technology.

 

[rruff]

A small hybrid SUV is basically the solution

I don't believe so. I see those as an extra complicated slightly more efficient gas burning vehicle. Definitely not an EV.

A sizeable number of vagabonds like hybrids because they come ready made with a big battery pack... that can be used for egregious electrical consumption... like AC and heat... which is replaced very inefficiently by running the engine! This might be convenient, but is the least efficient and most polluting way to get around. I'm not a fan.

 

[Happy Camper]

I don't believe so. I see those as an extra complicated slightly more efficient gas burning vehicle. Definitely not an EV.

A sizeable number of vagabonds like hybrids because they come ready made with a big battery pack... that can be used for egregious electrical consumption... like AC and heat... which is replaced very inefficiently by running the engine! This might be convenient, but is the least efficient and most polluting way to get around. I'm not a fan.

I think when looking at the options, it has to be qualified with the statement "at this time".

Because "at this time", the tech and options are exactly what they are. And will be changing as electric vehicle tech evolves. EV motors are changing, battery tech is changing as well. So those options will be evolving as they do.

Having better mpg while burning less gas, with HVAC while parked is a good thing. Sure, you use gas to charge the battery. But overall less gas is used on the whole. Therefore less emissions.

In 15-20 years when you can charge up easier, quicker, and cheaply (doubtful), EVs will make sense for vehicle living.

But until then, hybrids do make a lot of sense on many levels.

 

[bullfrog !]

I believe the engine powered charging system in most is as or more efficient than a top of the line standalone 3500 watt generator. With some offering a plug in charging port as well so it can be charged by grid power as well. There isn’t really a simple vehicle on the market in my opinion and hasn’t been for several years. Granted we have become more familiar with the older technologies but also the newer tech has advanced self troubleshooting. Doesn’t really matter jn my case until they become much more affordable! Lol!!! The vehicles we have are 1987 and 2002 models.

 

[onethoughtatatime]

For the prius at least from gen 2 on, people use them as an off-grid genny. I hear 5000w bandied around but who knows. There definitely are people who use them. I gotta say there is an incredible amount of helpful information out there. The gen 2s are starting to show their age but have an inherently more robust system as they don't have a complicated exhaust gas returns which foul up and without maintenance will cause at worst a blown head gasket.

I will say that the prius' I'm familiar with the gen 2 is probably the most amazing vehicle I've ever used or maintained--ever. Yes, there are a volumous amount of error codes but it's not completely out of the realm of most technical people to drill down to find out and do some parts replacement on them. They are insanely reliable, one thing people forget is the motor isn't running all the time. So less wear there. They don't have a gearbox (they have very simple transaxle system with planatary gears) and the whole unit transaxle and motor are incredibly robust. Yes they have complicated break booster system that dont run off the engine and use an ultra capacitor bank.

It's almost as if we were living in the past and someone came up with a reliable hybrid system with ultra reliable NiMh cells this would be the car for travelling in or living out of a car in. The two bigger prius' I've used for half a year or more are less efficient, more complicated but still the coolest things ever. A hybrid van with a flat floor that can get 38mpg (16km/l) or more?

I like that the older prius' are not internet connected. Have easily available software to do factory level diagnostics, yes complicated, but built to last and not like some sort of data privacy nightmare or walled-garden scenario. Remember the gen 2 prius came out before the iphone. It got incremental improvements on top of that.

There are some caveats, only the US model gen 2 prius had a stupid bladder inside the fuel tank, these shrivel up over time (cough) and people can't get a good guage on the petrol levels. The pistons have a strange loose fitting ring situation and get gummed up over time and can cause excessive oil consumption. People have done piston soaks and all sorts with various levels of success. My memory is after the 250000kms for some with this malady. Yes the battery is a battery and will fail over time. But it's a pretty small battery and you can buy replacements. If someone is handy and electrically aware, a battery replacement is a very diyable thing. Also individual cell replacements are also a thing. Pretty amazing if you ask me. Aaand, in the gen 2 the battery is very accessible. Toyota really went all out to create a vehicle that is serviceable and will last.

/rant hah

 

[mpruet]

I followed the travel last year of a guy camping in his Tesla who made it up to Tuktoyaktuk on the Arctic Ocean. He was often able to get electrical power usually, but since it was usually 15 amp, it took a long time to recharge. In the other spots he would have to stay put for several days to build up a charge — guess he was using solar then.

But he did make it to the Arctic Ocean.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/man-drove-a-tesla-to-the-arctic-ocean-in-dead-of-winter

 

[Gr8ful]

I've mentioned before I had 2 diesel VW Rabbits when diesel was cheap that got 55 mpg & was comfortable & dependable. I'm 6'4, Jim had 2 & is 6'5". A friend had a Prius that he claimed never got 35mpg, was noisy, low quality & using 2 systems to power 1 car makes it expensive & double prone to breakdown IMHO. Change is not always progress.

 

[rruff]

Having better mpg while burning less gas, with HVAC while parked is a good thing. Sure, you use gas to charge the battery. But overall less gas is used on the whole. Therefore less emissions

But this isn't true... probably. Hybrids achieve better MPG primarily through regeneration when braking. There is no gain in steady cruise. So it depends on how much stop and go driving is done, and how much AC or heat is used at night. For someone living in their vehicle, I think losses will typically far outweigh the gains.

 

[onethoughtatatime]

Well you get Monday cars and Friday cars. My gen 2 prius gets between 57mpg and 48mpg highway and city driving. These are measured tank fillups. Not just once, that's what I get. That mileage for my prius is 1000kms a tank. A lot of the time it's running on the battery so cool just driving not burning anything except rubber. I dont know what there isn't to like about these cars. I get the fear of electronics in cars. I do electronics, do solar and have made controllers and I don't want electronics in cars either. I guess I think there's a sweet spot because they are so efficient and reliable but also not some subscription model or over the top gaudiness. I would have say I've gone to the other side in regards to this topic. Well actually, just this make, and just this model I guess

 

[bullfrog !]

My opinion after researching a little tells me owning a Prius strictly for transportation compared to a strictly internal combustion engine vehicle of a similar weight and size it is pretty much a wash. The big difference to me would be sleeping in one in hot or cold weather and with an inverter having a reliable AC power source. I camped in an old 1986 Honda Civic hatchback that was a perfect car as far as I was concerned as it got 54 MPG doing 80 MPH on the interstate and 44 in town and cost $6,000 new. When Honda started making them bigger and more powerful they got 39 MPG on the interstate and 36 MPG in town and went 104 MPH according to the police. In 1991 they cost over $13,000 new. I wish someone made a new 1986 Honda Civic today even if it was $13,000! Most hybrid cars have motors more powerful than the 1300 cc engine that came in the 1986 Honda Civic because they are heavy. That is the part that makes no sense to me! Just build small continuously improved 1986 Honda Civics until EVs and their charging stations are practical and available which is what we should have been doing all along in my opinion. By the way a Rabbit diesel was so underpowered you voided the warranty if you put on AC as it often overheated with it and self destructed the engine warping the head.