Hot Topic: Social Security

[LargeMarge]

... the rich don't want to pay for wage slaves that are no longer... Public social programs like education and retirement are signs of an enlightened society. Wanting to rid the country if those programs so the rich...

.
How about looking at your issues from the view of 'the rich'?
.
Let's say:
* I own a few hundred banks and a few thousand bankers.
Let's say:
* some of my various passports are in places known as 'tax-havens'.
Let's say:
* I see a region for its potential natural resources (as well as unnatural resources, aka 'excess humans').
Let's say:
* I run -- as we all do -- a constant 'profits vs cost' analysis.
.
Let's say, one day, on a day a lot like today, I notice costs exceeding benefits to me.
Eventually, between luncheons at The Club, I contact 'my people', issuing instructions to reduce expenses... just a little.
For example, 'my people' might tweak the maintenance costs for the electric system just a squidgen, allowing the cables to droop an extra three inches.
And nobody complains.
Next, I might cut back on my tree-trimming crews, from a couple times a decade to maybe once every fifteen years or so.
And nobody complains.
.
And instead of investing in new equipment so that electric system can run a few more decades, I ignore all the new users in new subdivisions and new expansions to new cities with new apartments.
Instead, I invest my limited time in a place with more extractable resources and a hungrier population...
...a 'society' I can 'enlighten' without them getting all uppity.
Why?
We all benefit.
.
Let's say:
* I instruct 'my people' to cut back on LawEnforcementOfficials, reduce training, lower hiring standards, reduce benefits, reduce retirement, reduce their support... encourage seizures.
.
Let's say:
* I instruct a few hundred talking-heads on my MainStreamMedia pay-roll to parrot the need for regular folks to do something silly.
I think I might have them say, for example, 'our health requires the elimination of chamber-pots, because childhood asthma' or some other such nincompoopery.
And suddenly, everybody is all up in arms about their Constitutional! Right! for as many chamber-pots as their little hearts desire.
Esteemed Experts are invited to round-tables.
One Esteemed Expert knowingly proclaims:
* "I personally know at least one person with childhood asthma, and she obviously caught it from a chamber-pot!"
Across the round-tables, a different Esteemed Expert knowingly proclaims:
* "I think we don't need to cut back on all chamber-pots, because that would be an extremist position!"
The other Esteemed Experts knowingly agree on conventional limits to chamber-pots, because The Founding Fathers never 'envisioned' a future with 'high-capacity' chamber-pots.
.
Let's say:
* I quietly move to another of my many estates in some quiet back-water someplace... maybe Kenya for the views or Argentina for the food.
Of course, since I am 'the rich', I move for the afternoon.
Evenings are someplace else altogether.

 

[Frood]

I changed my mind about posting but cant seem delete.
Making a pointless post that would add nothing to the conversation and is likely to
cause offense where none was intended (maybe passive-aggressively out of frustration?)
brings nothing good to the world so self-censoring is the correct decision.

 

[dhuff]

Why is removing or raising the cap a bad idea.... is there anyone, anyone at all, participating here that makes more than $140k a year?

I'm currently still working, and yes. I also support raising the cap (or eliminating it).

 

[jacqueg]

Then what would you call it? Workers coming in on the bottom pay in so retirees at the top get paid. Age ordered pyramid that is top heavy (unstable).

The use of actuarial tables to determine outcomes and inputs. Insurance companies do it all the time.

Now you can argue lots of things about SS, good and bad. But it is not a pyramid scheme.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

 

[rruff]

It isn't a pyramid scheme. It's currently $2.9T in the black! Which means we've been saving up for the future... but...

Real median income from the early 1930's to the late 70s increased nearly 200%. When wages increase at that rate, workers can easily afford to pay SS. Unfortunately that stopped (~10% increase in the last 40 years), and only the rich have been getting richer since then. And the worker base has been shrinking while the % in retirement is growing.

Still, we are currently $2.9T ahead, but projections are that we'll burn through that in 12 years unless taxes are raised or benefits reduced.

 

[bullfrog]

Americans need to understand that in order to keep America a free and prosperous nation we need to insure every American has their basic needs met. Food, shelter and health care from the cradle to the grave. Only then can every American be free to work at getting an education and enable every American to blossom creatively to become a productive member of American society limited by only their abilities to live to old age and retire when they physically can no longer be productive or when they accumulate more than enough wealth to more than satisfy their basic needs at any age. United means it is everyone’s job to insure these goals are met for every American. Social Security is nowhere good enough, neither is Medicare or Medicare or Veterans Benefits in my opinion. A lot of America’s people suffer and live wasted lives because we and the people we elect to govern fail to accomplish the goals we were given by our constitution. We need to vote for those that are working to help meet those goals in my opinion. We seem to be able to fund a lot of more costly endeavors, why not something that will truly make America a better place and insure we lead the other countries rather than just trying to keep up in certain areas.

 

[Zerpersande]

View attachment 33533

Although I am wary of anything the govt does, I do not believe that neither fraudulent nor illicit apply to the SS system. These require intent. Any effort to shut the system down without plans to reimburse affected participants would change that. And if the system were handed over to a non-govt entity I think it would be almost certain those terms would soon appy

 

[SLB_SA]

U.S. government likely to reach debt ceiling Thursday

[mod edit: the link takes you to a news video about the US debt limit -tx2]

 

[tx2sturgis]

Reminder: Please include a brief explanation or description with all links, especially video links.

 

[bullfrog]

This is the same strategy that the former governor of Arizona used to limit the amount of “approved” education funds in Arizona. After breaking his promise to call a special session to raise the spending limit schools are allowed to spend in one year and getting his bills passed based on that promise. Schools are now having to lay off badly needed teachers. Does Congress not understand not paying for program spending all ready approved will cost way more than what they are attempting to limit in the future? This isn’t like increasing the limit on a child’s credit card, as the Speaker of the House stated, this is not paying for what has already been purchased and ruining your credit rating and increasing the interest rates on what you already owe! Hopefully as many of these are the same representatives that have committed crimes against the government on January 6th or getting elected into office in the first place the Justice Department can quickly prosecute them and the remaining House members will be forced to remove them. A lot of damage and suffering is a real possibility over the next two years because of redistricting and peoples choice’s when they voted this year. One can only hope they will remember in two years if they survive till then that their vote counts!

 

[bearbayou]

Agree Bullfrog with all that you say--except "...their vote counts" ----Yes, voting is SUPER important, but The problem for voting nowadays, is how Republicans have gerrymandered districts, eliminated hours to vote, and limited places where you can vote, etc. ----this is especially true in red states like Texas...If Soc Security is reduced, and Medicare/Medicaid too--this will put a lot of people into the streets. In our blended family, we have a total of 7 kids--now adults-- with some grandchildren. My eldest son is disabled & must depend on SSDI plus Medi-Cal. Take his "entitlements" (grr- that word), just for him, and then husband & I face a monthly charge of $1,000 just for his meds ( seizures and mood swings). We live on So Sec..we cannot pay out that kinduva $. Five years ago husband was in an Oakland hospital for 109 days. At the 90th day point the retail charge was over $3 MILLION. But Soc.. Security plus our supplement pay for all but about $400. Reduce these things and we have to tighten our belts more, but wipe them out? We're cooked ---as will be millions of people.

 

[egilbe]

Agree Bullfrog with all that you say--except "...their vote counts" ----Yes, voting is SUPER important, but The problem for voting nowadays, is how Republicans have gerrymandered districts, eliminated hours to vote, and limited places where you can vote, etc. ----this is especially true in red states like Texas...If Soc Security is reduced, and Medicare/Medicaid too--this will put a lot of people into the streets. In our blended family, we have a total of 7 kids--now adults-- with some grandchildren. My eldest son is disabled & must depend on SSDI plus Medi-Cal. Take his "entitlements" (grr- that word), just for him, and then husband & I face a monthly charge of $1,000 just for his meds ( seizures and mood swings). We live on So Sec..we cannot pay out that kinduva $. Five years ago husband was in an Oakland hospital for 109 days. At the 90th day point the retail charge was over $3 MILLION. But Soc.. Security plus our supplement pay for all but about $400. Reduce these things and we have to tighten our belts more, but wipe them out? We're cooked ---as will be millions of people.

I thought only Democrats gerrymandered districts?

 

[bullfrog]

Both parties do and both are influenced by big money but it seems the poles indicate more people want social security to increase. If most people were able to vote as easily as they should be able to where they are voting in areas determined by independent boards we probably wouldn’t have these kind of problems as much in my opinion as their representatives would mirror the public’s wishes more so.

 

[SLB_SA]

This article which is titled You're stressed over the wrong things. Floridians have most to lose in the 'fixing' of Social Security by the Palm Beach Post notes U.S. Sen. Rick Scott of Florida ... wants people to imagine incorrectly that Social Security payments will evaporate in 2034. That’s how he justifies his “rescue America” plan, which calls for the sunsetting of both Medicare and Social Security in five years —a move that allows Congress to pare them down, at best, or gut them, at worst. “If a law is worth keeping, Congress can pass it again,” Scott’s plan reads.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

A number of persons here have stated directly or inferred that 'Social Security is going broke' is a lie yet offer no supporting evidence to rebut the SSA's own analysis. Without support it's just an uninformed opinion.

The Social Security Administration knows how much they have in reserve, can accurately estimate how much they will have coming in and going out for the next 75 years; been doing it for at least 30 years with the same warning.

If you have the data and reasoned analysis to rebut this, please share.

.....but it seems the poles indicate more people want social security to increase.....

It's interesting. If you ask 'should we increase SS payments' you get over 80% yes. But if you ask 'should we increase taxes to pay for an increase in SS payments' you get a dichotomy: persons over 55 are strongly in favor, those under 55 disagree, and the % disagreement increases the younger the respondent.

 

[bullfrog]

^^^In my opinion most younger people feel they won’t get to enjoy the benefits or it will not be near enough to matter in their retirement. Neither of which needs to be the case. Much of the problem is the fact there is a cap on the tax and with the huge gap in wealth distribution in this country it becomes even a bigger problem. Voting for representatives that mirror the people’s desires still works as long as parties funding is limited and term limits become a reality.

 

[user 22017]

U.S. citizens won't let others in need go without social security income. If it runs out, the government will switch to Universal Basic Income. It's usually $1,000 a month under current pilot programs both in the U.S. and abroad.

 

[bullfrog]

^^^ You have a lot more faith in the public than I do, just look at how difficult it is for some to vote or voice their opinion to their representatives.

 

[tx2sturgis]

This thread is about the Social Security program, and as such some political content relating to the SS program is pertinent, and allowed to remain, but general comments about politics are subject to being removed.

Please continue the conversation in this thread by staying on topic.