Homelessness [split from Leadville and Salida Ranger Districts]

[rruff]

What is "true homelessness"?

 

[Gr8ful]

The definition of those who are experiencing homelessness includes: An individual or family who lacks a fixed, regular, and adequate nighttime residence, such as those living in emergency shelters, transitional housing, or places not meant for habitation, or.

The Types of Homelessness

• Chronic Homelessness. This is the most well known type of homelessness. ...
• Episodic Homelessness. Episodic homelessness can turn in to chronic homelessness. ...
• Transitional Homelessness. This is one of the more common types of homelessness. ...
• Hidden Homelessness.

https://www.homelesshub.ca/resource/what-homelessness

 

[bullfrog !]

I wish there were programs to deal with all types of homelessness. As it is becoming a large problem maybe breaking it down into smaller parts it will be easier to deal with.

 

[WanderingRose]

I think that’s already being done, honestly, specialized outreach/services for those addicted and the mentally ill, also generalized help in terms of food, clothing, etc.

But, it’s a mess, and an overwhelming one for my wee brain.

 

[rruff]

The main issue is that the expense and hassle falls on local communities rather than national agencies. Long term homeless are usually mobile and will flock to places that have good weather, good services, and good treatment (ie not so harassed by cops).

 

[bullfrog !]

Universal healthcare would go a long way to solving those problems as many end up homeless because of medical expenses as well as not having the money to treat present illnesses.

 

[rruff]

Universal healthcare would go a long way to solving those problems as many end up homeless because of medical expenses as well as not having the money to treat present illnesses.

Most states have free healthcare for people below the poverty line, and have heavily subsidized insurance above that. The insurance subsidy got bigger in 2020, but I don't know if that will last.

The majority of chronic homeless that I have experience with, have pretty serious addictions or mental issues... it's easy to see that they are unable to hold a job. There is another group that are pretty functional, but lacking ambition for one reason or another, and choose that life vs the rat race.

 

[bullfrog !]

I guess I consider those that don’t have the ability to seek help on their own rather than allowing them to become criminals there should be mandatory hospital stays or rehabilitation centers for them as our prisons have failed to correct their behavior in order to become self sufficient in so many cases.

 

[RonDean]

I would push back on the term "true homelessness," but agree that the term "homeless" is too vague or incorrect a term. We all seem to have our personal biases on this subject. And we are all partially correct. But there are many different reasons for homelessness. Each of these causes would require another solution. For example, if we just solved the imbalance between the cost of housing and low income, it would certainly solve poverty driven homelessness. But not homelessness caused by substance abuse or mental illness. Just as providing free and immediate substance abuse treatment or mental health services would not help those with just low income. Domestic violence and child abuse drive others onto the streets, We are unlikely to solve any of these problems if we keep lumping them all together.

"Homelessness" is the RESULT of many different things, each of which demands specific targeted solutions.

 

[jacqueg]

The thing is, most of us who live full time in an RV or van are, by definition, homeless!

 

[RvNaut]

The thing is, most of us who live full time in an RV or van are, by definition, homeless!

Or perhaps said as....

Society sees anyone living in a vehicle full time as homeless.

As such we have to tell little white lies in order have the advantages those in S&B have

 

[jacqueg]

Or perhaps said as....

Society sees anyone living in a vehicle full time as homeless.

As such we have to tell little white lies in order have the advantages those in S&B have

Society sees anyone living in a vehicle full time as homeless.

Yup, it's part of most official definitions. I believe it actually includes fully self-contained rigs such as yours. I know for sure it would include my van, which is not self-contained by official definitions.

 

[Gr8ful]

I don't agree. I know it may be how society sees it but there are many people who would love to have the security a van offers, think of vans as the new conastoga wagons.

 

[WanderingRose]

I think if you are living in a vehicle by choice, you are houseless rather than homeless.

 

[jacqueg]

I don't agree. I know it may be how society sees it but there are many people who would love to have the security a van offers/

It's not that society sees it that way. It's that social services agencies officially define it that way. Which, depending on circumstances, might be helpful. Or might not.

 

[NctryBen]

I think if you are living in a vehicle by choice, you are houseless rather than homeless.

That’s how we see it… who cares about society… haha! We own our homes… I feel renting a person could be homeless more then living in a vehicle. Especially if you get an eviction notice… never was a fan of renting.

 

[LoupGarou]

For what's it's worth, if one is going to live the lifestyle weither because they want too or need too, its best to be discrete about it when it comes to interactions with Law Enforcement. Best not to advertise, boost or brag about it.

 

[Morgana]

Here's a new article on Houston's success dealing with homelessness. It's written by Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times, who can usually be counted on for common-sense compassion without rose-colored glasses.
Houston, if I understood the article right, focuses on getting people into housing first and then dealing with their other problems. That is controversial and has mixed success but apparently better success than most other programs. LOTS of interesting pieces to the real-life puzzle that don't always match up to either conservative or liberal pre-conceived notions.
Right or wrong, handout or not, they seem to be finding that it's just cheaper to put people into housing than to deal with the illness, crime, etc., that results from leaving them on the streets. Worryingly, Houston financed this with its Covid money* and is not sure what to do when that runs out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/22/...e_code=1.Ak0.qbo3.XyJDdr7lgfdf&smid=url-share

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* better than some of the BS people spent that money on!

 

[bullfrog !]

When I was teaching a three year vocational school program I figured maybe 5 or 6 percent of my students made more money than I did teaching and working two other jobs 2 years out of school. My goal was to place 2/3 thirds of all students either in jobs within the career field, the military or full time college within two years of graduating. Focusing on just teaching the subject matter doesn’t work for 95 percent of students, you have to deal with the whole person as in housing, food, health and social behavior. Until you do that you are wasting 95 percent of your effort. 5 or 6 percent of students are going to excel and succeed no matter what. Close to 20 percent you just can’t help improve their lives. 10 percent are going to die either from drugs, violence, or in jail. If you improve 60 percent of the people’s lives you come into contact with you are really doing good in my opinion and experience. There are a lot of places that the majority of people are not willing to put out the effort and money to help with the 60 percent that could be helped. Nice to know there are a few that are.

 

[Morgana]

That rings very true.
It blows my mind how many higher-ed students (who are ~adults and presumably making their own decision to be there) are homeless and/or skipping meals. I always thought I was fairly self-directed and a hard worker, but I don't think I could have done what they are doing. Total respect.