Group purchase of land for RV community

[ghost]

True American thinking and this being a dream, at 68 been thought about for 50 years at least. Not until you try it and either succeed or fail will you know the answer. I think about people like you who were like me in so any ways. so my heart goes out to you.

Thanks brother.  I'm 39.  About to make a big change in the fall and hopefully find my sweetie to kick it with.  It's all about a positive outlook and attitude and the right partner.  '2 is 1 and 1 is none.  Dave Canterbury.'

Peace!

Matt

 

[highdesertranger]

you must be talking the wet side. you seem quite determined. I really like the idea of utopia just at my age I have become jaded. hell if you think you could pull it off go for it. highdesertranger

 

[GotSmart]

There is no snow ass deep i the part of the PNW we are looking at.  They average 5 in. per year.  We would not have animals all over the place.  We would drive to the market for food.  Just a small garden maybe.  Off grid for power and water, but not for food.

Let me know the general idea of where, and I will put you in touch with my brother who sells real estate in OR and CA.  He has access to all the listings, as well as knows the laws.  That could save a lot of wasted time.

 

[ghost]

you must be talking the wet side.  you seem quite determined.  I really like the idea of utopia just at my age I have become jaded.  hell if you think you could pull it off go for it.  highdesertranger

Hell yeah!!!

 

[ghost]

Let me know the general idea of where, and I will put you in touch with my brother who sells real estate in OR and CA.  He has access to all the listings, as well as knows the laws.  That could save a lot of wasted time.

Thank you my friend!  Will do...

 

[JeriLynn]

Hey all!  

I was wondering if any of you ever considered getting together - say 20-30 people - from this forum and purchasing a nice 5-10 acre parcel of land somewhere out west and all chipping in on it?  We could all park our RV's etc. on the land.  We would all have different skills and help each other in different ways.  One person could buy a sweet solar set up, another few could chip in and have a well dug.  Just a passing thought.  The best part is we would have a little community (family) off grid on our own private land to call home base.  

Peace,

Matt

 

[AltTransBikes]

What if we got 20 people together all interested in this type of community and each bought our our acre, out of a 20 acre parcel, in our own name?  That would take care of anyone wanting to sell-out and and legal issues from other members?  We could all still help each other and have a community type atmosphere.  I think finding the right people is key. 

There are literally scores of current examples of people living cooperatively in one form or another. For example, check out the structure of ICs (intentional communities) http://www.ic.org/ or Co-housing coops http://www.cohousing.org/directory, or a number of eco-village type orgs where like minded people get their act together.

You're spot on about right people being key. A tight-knit, supportive group of folks, neighbors, community, with similar standards and values might be a great hedge on future uncertainty. It's hard to realize now perhaps but if/when tshtf the luxury of rugged individualism will dissipate with a whimper. In a world where we are one event, natural disaster, major military conflict away from oil spiking to $200@bbl and gas $5@gal (like the aftermath of H Katrina) could enforce a sobering reality for many prior nomads.

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

[ghost]

There are literally scores of current examples of people living cooperatively in one form or another. For example, check out the structure of ICs (intentional communities) http://www.ic.org/ or Co-housing coops http://www.cohousing.org/directory, or a number of eco-village type orgs where like minded people get their act together.

You're spot on about right people being key. A tight-knit, supportive group of folks, neighbors, community, with similar standards and values might be a great hedge on future uncertainty. It's hard to realize now perhaps but if/when tshtf the luxury of rugged individualism will dissipate with a whimper. In a world where we are one event, natural disaster, major military conflict away from oil spiking to $200@bbl and gas $5@gal (like the aftermath of H Katrina) could enforce a sobering reality for many prior nomads.

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

What a great statement.  Thanks ATB!  Couldn't have said it better.

 

[DannyB1954]

There are scores of people living and working together. Their location is called a town or city.
Just because you own the land doesn't mean that you have no restrictions for it's use. Having one non conformist in an area does not rouse a lot of opposition, Make it a community and people will react. I heard the Japanese have a saying, the nail that sticks up gets hammered. I seem to remember reading about a community such as you suggest. Very lax building codes . The rest of the residents of that county were not happy with their new neighbors. I believe new rules were instituted to try to get rid of them.
Counties do not tend to favor people who pay very little property tax. Don't expect them to take your right to the pursuit of happiness over the wishes of the people that fund their wages. It is getting difficult to find an area that allows even the small house. A lot of building codes say a minimum of 900 Sq'. Most say no living in a vehicle as well.

 

[ghost]

There are scores of people living and working together. Their location is called a town or city.
Just because you own the land doesn't mean that you have no restrictions for it's use. Having one non conformist in an area does not rouse a lot of opposition, Make it a community and people will react. I heard the Japanese have a saying, the nail that sticks up gets hammered. I seem to remember reading about a community such as you suggest. Very lax building codes . The rest of the residents of that county were not happy with their new neighbors. I believe new rules were instituted to try to get rid of them.
Counties do not tend to favor people who pay very little property tax. Don't expect them to take your right to the pursuit of happiness over the wishes of the people that fund their wages. It is getting difficult to find an area that allows even the small house. A lot of building codes say a minimum of 900 Sq'.  Most say no living in a vehicle as well.

Oregon is not Japan.  Property taxes would be paid.  In certain old hippie towns,  group communities are respected so it's not all classified in a fishbowl.  Just my opinion.  I can be done...

 

[AltTransBikes]

If we had 20 people each with $20,000 that's $400,000.   I'm pretty sure we could get a lot done with that ...

Purchasing an existing campground would calm most of the naysayers objections. Just run it as business as usual with a membership. Here's one in the OR chaparral listed for $300K OBRO. 20 peeps with $20K (40 with $10K ? or whatever increment seemed to work for the group) would leave $100K for improvements, legal work, etc. really quite doable.

$90,000 Down Seller Financing!
$299,000

The park is on 24 mostly level acres with room to expand on 15 acres, 20 large 80' long pull through sites with 30/50amp service. Concrete block bathhouse, guest laundry and a small registration/camp office building. The owner’s home, included in the sale has 3 bedrooms and two bathrooms with vaulted ceilings and in overall good condition. Storage area for equipment. This owner just turned 88 and operates the park from a distance. All reasonable offers will be considered.

pics - https://thecampgroundconnection.com/parks/photos/?park=624&region=Northwest&sortByPrice=0

 

[TrainChaser]

It sounds like a great idea, but they don't work. There's always a small group who want to be Boss. And then one of them wants to be Boss of the Bosses. If everyone was to share work, some would do more, and some would do less (or nothing) because they weren't getting paid for it. Go to any BLM or FS campground and look around; some people leave clean camps and others leave a bunch of trash. Providing water and sewage is begging for trouble. The campers can harvest or buy their own water, just like they do now. They can deal with their own sewage just like they are now. As soon as you start trying to solve everyone's problems, you create more problems. And you raise the cost. And then most boondockers stop staying there, and return to BLM and FS land.

The Burning Man Project, which is a 501-c-3 non-profit, has bought a 3,600-acre ranch (~2.5 hrs N of Gerlach, NV -- pop. 206) to use as a year-round base of activities, which will be a separate entity from their annual Burning Man celebration at Black Rock City. They paid $6.5 million for it (paid completely by donations). They anticipate experimenting with shelter, energy, environmentalism, new models of living, working, governance, interactive arts, culture, and community participation and other innovations that could drive social change. The will have a Board of Officers making decisions. I don't see anything like this happening with Boondockers and RT'ers.

The closest you might get to Camp Paradise is for someone to simply set up a campground for members only, and charge a small fee (even $5/day would run $150/mo). The only advantage would be the lack of a 2-wk limit. The owner(s) could evict the troublemakers.

Personally, I wouldn't try to complicate things. As things stand now, the people who want to travel on the cheap are doing it now. Most have escaped from the Money Mongers lifestyle and want to live by their own (relatively speaking) rules and wishes. Why escape to freedom, and then volunteer to be bound and shackled again?

 

[GotSmart]

Oregon is not Japan.  Property taxes would be paid.  In certain old hippie towns,  group communities are respected so it's not all classified in a fishbowl.  Just my opinion.  I can be done...

Yes it can.  The key is finding a location that will allow the project in mind.

 

[AngryVanMan]

It sounds like a lot of people don't know the difference between a cooperative and commune, or at least have their own very specific ideas about what is being discussed.  There are literally dozens upon dozens of ways to structure land ownership and/or business ventures like this.  A cooperative is a worker-owned or member-owned business or venture.  Volunteer labor is not a requirement nor even that common, but it can be done - usually to give low-income people a better opportunity, if there is a call for that.  It could also be operated as a for-profit, there is no difference but where the dollars end up.  It could also be a full blown commune, there are plenty that have been running successfully for decades.  Most of the time you don't even know they are there - how many nudist colonies have you visited?

The primary difference between a coop and a for-profit business, is the lack of leeches at the top skimming profits.  It's the reason commercial banks lobby constantly against credit unions, investment houses lobby against operations like Vanguard, Big Agriculture lobbies against CSA's and sponsor bills outlawing food production by individuals inside city limits - if you remove the vampire squid at the top of the business food chain, those for-profit businesses can no longer compete on many levels and the profit margin shrinks.

If it's just an RV park and nothing else, that does sound a lot like the Escapees club.  If it's got some perk(s) specific to the vangabond/boondock crowd, maybe it's worth extra consideration. A heated/cooled shop to wrench on your RV?  Self-service garages already exist as a business model, just combine it with a park.  Maybe lots of nomads like to raise a garden, how many RV parks do you know offering services to exercise the green thumb?  Community gardens are commonplace, put one in a park.  Maybe you think full-timers would like a shooting range on the property, again, just combining business models.  Full timers could be far-better catered to than the current crop of commercial parks manage to do.

 

[AltTransBikes]

As things stand now, ..........

Aye, and there's the rub. This, the thoughts expressed in the OP, may be an idea best for those who think in the not distant future things will not stand as they are now but will be quite different indeed, that cooperation makes good sense and necessity really is the mother of invention.

It sounds like a lot of people don't know the difference between a cooperative and commune, or at least have their own very specific ideas about what is being discussed.  There are literally dozens upon dozens of ways to structure land ownership and/or business ventures like this.  A cooperative is a worker-owned or member-owned business or venture.  Volunteer labor is not a requirement nor even that common, but it can be done - usually to give low-income people a better opportunity, if there is a call for that.  It could also be operated as a for-profit, there is no difference but where the dollars end up.  It could also be a full blown commune, there are plenty that have been running successfully for decades.  Most of the time you don't even know they are there - how many nudist colonies have you visited?

The primary difference between a coop and a for-profit business, is the lack of leeches at the top skimming profits.  It's the reason commercial banks lobby constantly against credit unions, investment houses lobby against operations like Vanguard, Big Agriculture lobbies against CSA's and sponsor bills outlawing food production by individuals inside city limits - if you remove the vampire squid at the top of the business food chain, those for-profit businesses can no longer compete on many levels and the profit margin shrinks.

If it's just an RV park and nothing else, that does sound a lot like the Escapees club.  If it's got some perk(s) specific to the vangabond/boondock crowd, maybe it's worth extra consideration. A heated/cooled shop to wrench on your RV?  Self-service garages already exist as a business model, just combine it with a park.  Maybe lots of nomads like to raise a garden, how many RV parks do you know offering services to exercise the green thumb?  Community gardens are commonplace, put one in a park.  Maybe you think full-timers would like a shooting range on the property, again, just combining business models.  Full timers could be far-better catered to than the current crop of commercial parks manage to do.

Bravo, very good points all around.

 

[ghost]

Purchasing an existing campground would calm most of the naysayers objections. Just run it as business as usual with a membership. Here's one in the OR chaparral listed for $300K OBRO. 20 peeps with $20K (40 with $10K ? or whatever increment seemed to work for the group) would leave $100K for improvements, legal work, etc. really quite doable.



pics - https://thecampgroundconnection.com/parks/photos/?park=624&region=Northwest&sortByPrice=0

You're the man! (or woman) 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

IMO your biggest hurdle/headache is going to be government regulations: land use regulations, zoning, building codes, water rights/restrictions, environmental impact, occupancy requirements, minimum lot size requirements; the list goes on and on and on.  For these reasons I think buying an existing campground would remove a lot of headaches.

It is my take (or maybe it is a product of the posts I read/skip), the most people on this site choose van living for its mobility: moving when it gets too hot/cold, free camping, new vistas, new neighbors, new experiences ...  But all you need is a few like minded, comparable people to share your dream.

Take the objections offered seriously; there is a lot of experience on this site.  A lot of dreams get shattered on the rocks of reality because one does not listen to valid critiques of their plans.

 -- Spiff

 

[highdesertranger]

I know exactly where that campground in post #51 is. I drove past it a month ago and drive past it a few times a year. it's in the Oregon outback, it gets bitterly cold there in the winter, below 0 is not uncommon. some type of snow removal equipment will be needed as the snow does get up to your ass. the closest large city with large grocery stores, Costco and Walmart is over 130 miles away. cell service is real spotty in that area. the camp ground itself sit less than 100 yards of US395 in Oregon, although the is not a ton of traffic on 395 in OR there is still traffic and there will be the road noise. this part of OR is deep red. you are closer to the state of Jefferson then you are to the state of OR. just saying don't get all excited, there is a reason that campground is so cheap. highdesertranger

 

[DannyB1954]

I didn't see how much land comes with this deal. Maybe the land is leased from the forest service or County. You could be buying just the business and not the land. I see hundreds of acres in the pics. Is this all part of the deal? Is the County going to let you subdivide this into smaller lots? How do you deal with people that want to shoot flys from their rig, or make a mess of their land? Get loaded and noisey? Evicting a tenant is hard enough, but when they own the land that they are on it gets next to impossible. So now we are back to Home Owner Association rules and litigation. Who is going to manage this association and enforce the rules for free? How much does everyone pay for this management? If it is a campground with investors run as a business, you will have control over how people behave, or how to deal with them when they don't.

I think if people wanted the problems associated with this type of set up, they would already be living in a condo somewhere.

 

[highdesertranger]

I am not sure about the land ownership surrounding the camp ground. on the other side of 395 it is private ranches. I would guess around the campground itself is private property or BLM. most of the Oregon outback is BLM probably around 95% of it. btw the Oregon outback is the whole southeastern corner of the state, a huge area lots of exploring and very few paved roads. gas, water, and groceries are few and far between. if you go be prepared. please be prepared. highdesertranger