Funds Before Vandwelling, or Vandwelling Before Funds [split]

[waldenbound]

I'm going to chime in on the very first post.

A lot of the jobs mentioned that had these great skills are becoming more and more scarce. Outsourcing and automation are threatening even white color jobs. Most of America is average, most people don't have the intellect or IQ to get a job at Google. The days of high paying manufacturing jobs like we had in the 50s and 60s are gone forever. They are NOT coming back.

The economy is moving from manufacturing based to service based. Sure, there may be jobs out there, but often they don't pay enough for the skyrocketing cost of healthcare, rent, food, saving for retirement, saving for college. The American middle class is nearly gone.

There's got to be another way. Bob has found that way in vandwelling. He shares his knowledge with the readers of this site. He doesn't tell anyone how they should live, everybody needs to figure out what works for them themselves.

As far as unskilled labor, any honest job that a body can do to make his/her way in the world is a good job. Bob has talked a lot about workamping.

There's a saying called "hike your own hike." How about "mobile live your own mobile life?"

 

[GotSmart]

My daughter bought a 2013 Hyundai.  I asked about a spare tire~~~   :huh:

The answer was that people have roaadside assistance, and most do not know how to change a tire.  :huh: :s :huh:

Perhaps we are all different after all?

 

[gcal]

I'm going to chime in on the very first post.

A lot of the jobs mentioned that had these great skills are becoming more and more scarce. Outsourcing and automation are threatening even white color jobs. Most of America is average, most people don't have the intellect or IQ to get a job at Google. The days of high paying manufacturing jobs like we had in the 50s and 60s are gone forever. They are NOT coming back.

The economy is moving from manufacturing based to service based. Sure, there may be jobs out there, but often they don't pay enough for the skyrocketing cost of healthcare, rent, food, saving for retirement, saving for college. The American middle class is nearly gone.

There's got to be another way. Bob has found that way in vandwelling. He shares his knowledge with the readers of this site. He doesn't tell anyone how they should live, everybody needs to figure out what works for them themselves.

As far as unskilled labor, any honest job that a body can do to make his/her way in the world is a good job. Bob has talked a lot about workamping.

There's a saying called "hike your own hike." How about "mobile live your own mobile life?"

OK. This is probably going to be deleted. I don't think Americans are any more innately dumb than Indians or Pakistanis or Middle Easterners. But somehow, we keep having to grant tens of thousands of work visas every year for engineers and scientists and computer geeks to foreigners who have worked their tails off to get those qualifications because there aren't enough trained Americans to fill those positions. Are we really just not all that bright? Or have we gotten soft and lazy and entitled? No, a lot of the old unskilled jobs and not comming back. Some of the skilled jobs aren't coming back. Neither are buggy whip salesmen. 

But why is it that immigrants can come here with nothing, without even speaking the language, start businesses and send their kids to college, while native born citizens just can't seem to get themselves together? All they have is excuses about why they can't do it and indignation that anyone would expect them to do it. Studying and learning is hard, so they give up. School is expensive, and they think they should not have to invest in themselves. The high paying fields are tough and demanding, so they sulk about how the lower paying field they knowingly chose left them with a high student loan debt. We produce a bumper crop of sour grapes.

I started at low paying jobs, went to college parttime, and let my employer pay for my degrees. Twice. Unless you are born into the 1%, good things are not going to fall into your lap.

 

[Queen]

Then there are those of us with lots of degrees and experience who chose helping professions, working with mentally ill homeless folks, disabled kids, the elderly, etc. We never made much, we don't have sour grapes or really any issues with our choices, we just don't have a lot to show, monetarily, for all those years. It doesn't make us less, or deficient, or show we didn't try hard enough, we filled a need, a need that didn't have much dollar value in this society.

Not everyone needs to or chooses to chase the dollar, immigrant or native, some make other choices... as long as we don't lament the fallout from any choice, we're all good.

 

[jimindenver]

The best skill to develop is the ability to see a need, find out how to fill it and profit from it.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

My daughter bought a 2013 Hyundai.  I asked about a spare tire~~~   :huh:

The answer was that people have roaadside assistance, and most do not know how to change a tire.  :huh: :s :huh:

Perhaps we are all different after all?

My mom's new Kia didn't come with a spare tire either, I think it has more to do with dropping as much weight as possible to keep up with EPA regs on gas mileage.  She has a can of fix of flat in the spot where a spare should be.  Factory supplied, just shook my head.  But you're right, everyone has roadside assistance and most people don't know how to change a tire anymore.  My 38 yr old brother is one of them.  He got a flat in Italy in a rent a car and drove it 38 km on the rim because he had no cell coverage to call for help.  Uggh!

 

[gcal]

Then there are those of us with lots of degrees and experience who chose helping professions, working with mentally ill homeless folks, disabled kids, the elderly, etc.  We never made much, we don't have sour grapes or really any issues with our choices, we just don't have a lot to show, monetarily, for all those years.  It doesn't make us less, or deficient, or show we didn't try hard enough, we filled a need, a need that didn't have much dollar value in this society.  

Not everyone needs to or chooses to chase the dollar, immigrant or native, some make other choices... as long as we don't lament the fallout from any choice, we're all good.

That is true. there are people who have a calling and who choose to answer it. As long as they understand that they are responsible for that choice, and are willing to make the personal sacrifices that will be required, I have nothing but respect for them.

 

[akrvbob]

That's great advice for some people, bad advice for others. There is no one set way to view life that is guaranteed right for everyone.

It was terrible advice for me and I very much regret how long I followed it
Bob

This was my response to gcal about her post number 1 in this thread. I said it in post number 3 above. I think it was reasonable and fair. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it makes me an awful person.

I'm willing to extend to you the courtesy of living any way you choose without criticism, but i'm not willing to have you respond by telling me how wrong I am and only your way is right. My Sheep comment was in response to a post by another person I found very insulting. I do believe what I said, but I do regret having said it that way. I could have made my point in a less insulting manor. I'm ashamed to admit I intended to insult, something there is never an excuse for. I sincerely apologize for that.

The simple fact is that this country, and all modern countries, use incredibly sophisticated techniques to control the thoughts, feelings and actions of its citizens. It's no surprise that we are all sheep when you consider the full might of the government and corporations are dedicated to keeping us sheep. The shocking thing is that any of us can rise above it and think and live independently of it.

Sadly, I could not, I was fully a sheep for most of my life--I lacked the courage to break out of it. Only dire circumstances and hitting my own bottom could shock me out of it and force me to wake up and follow my own path.

It's very important we don't condemn the sheep for being sheep, we all are to some degree. That poor woman working for free at the library until she died did nothing wrong, she was simply a product of a powerful system she could not rise above. Just like I was.

We must always focus our anger at the source of the problem, a society that is willing to make all of it's citizens semi-miserable in order to keep them obedient, compliant wage-slaves producing great wealth for them.

What's truly, profoundly sad is that most of them are sheep too! They really think it's in everybody's best interest for everybody to be a sheep.

This system is bad--very, very, very bad. The only solution is to walk away for it and never look back. The further you get away from it the more you can think your own thoughts and feel your own feelings and become your own true, authentic self that you were born to be.
Bob

 

[gcal]

This system is bad--very, very, very bad. The only solution is to walk away for it and never look back. The further you get away from it the more you can think your own thoughts and feel your own feelings and become your own true, authentic self that you were born to be.
Bob

Just out of curiosity, what did you do back in your drone days, Bob? It seems to have a very bad taste with you.

 

[TMG51]

This was my response to gcal about her post number 1 in this thread. I said it in post number 3 above. I think it was reasonable and fair. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it makes me an  awful person.

This system is bad--very, very, very bad. The only solution is to walk away for it and never look back. The further you get away from it the more you can think your own thoughts and feel your own feelings and become your own true, authentic self that you were born to be.
Bob

Much better worded and less divisive than your previous rant, thanks.

I think most people here are saying the same thing. No one is saying stay chained to a lifestyle, but some are emphasizing have emergency cash before you abscond. Others only find they flourish when throwing caution to the wind. I understand both perspectives. Still no one here is advocating that others dive into the deep end unprepared.

 

[AltTransBikes]

Just out of curiosity, what did you do back in your drone days, Bob? It seems to have a very bad taste with you.

Fair question, I wonder if you'll get it answered.

 

[akrvbob]

Fair question, I wonder if you'll get it answered.

Are you serious? I can assure there is nothing about me that I have not said somewhere here or on my blog or in my book.

I worked as a union clerk in a grocery store for over 30 years. I was well paid, had great benefitsifits and it turned out a very good retirement plan.

I was also their one truly controllable cost of business so they did everything they could to get every last ounce out of me while giving me as little as they possibly could. By the end, they were paying me three times more than new hires so they did everything they could to get me to quit. 

But so what. You say you loved your job I say I hated mine, that proves nothing. 

But here's what does prove something: since the year 2000 the gallop company has been doing a yearly poll on the state of the American worker. Very consistently about 30% are "engaged" in their job while 70% are "disengaged" or "actively disengaged"

Engaged means they like the job and are excited to go to work, 
Disengaged means they either don't like the job or dislike it, but perform it reasonably well because they have to have a job.       They are basically just going through the motions. This describes me. 
Actively Disengaged means they don't just hate the job, they go to work and actively try to harm the company. They steal, break things and are rude to customers. Any sabotage they can do and not get fired or sent to jail.

The bottom line is that as a nation we basically hate our job and therefore, hate our lives. I'm trying to right that very terrible wrong by showing people how to live super cheaply and work a minimum amount. 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/181289/majority-employees-not-engaged-despite-gains-2014.aspx

 

[gcal]

Are you serious? I can assure there is nothing about me that I have not said somewhere here or on my blog or in my book.

I worked as a union clerk in a grocery store for over 30 years. I was well paid, had great benefitsifits and it turned out a very good retirement plan.

I was also their one truly controllable cost of business so they did everything they could to get every last ounce out of me while giving me as little as they possibly could. By the end, they were paying me three times more than new hires so they did everything they could to get me to quit. 

But so what. You say you loved your job I say I hated mine, that proves nothing. 

But here's what does prove something: since the year 2000 the gallop company has been doing a yearly poll on the state of the American worker. Very consistently about 30% are "engaged" in their job while 70% are "disengaged" or "actively disengaged"

Engaged means they like the job and are excited to go to work, 
Disengaged means they either don't like the job or dislike it, but perform it reasonably well because they have to have a job.       They are basically just going through the motions. This describes me. 
Actively Disengaged means they don't just hate the job, they go to work and actively try to harm the company. They steal, break things and are rude to customers. Any sabotage they can do and not get fired or sent to jail.

The bottom line is that as a nation we basically hate our job and therefore, hate our lives. I'm trying to right that very terrible wrong by showing people how to live super cheaply and work a minimum amount. 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/181289/majority-employees-not-engaged-despite-gains-2014.aspx

Yeah, Bob, it does prove something. It proves that I was part of the 30% that was actively engaged with and loved (most of the time) my job and you were part of to part of the 17.5% (I am guessing) that hated your job. I have been in jobs I despised, too. But I was fortunate in that I had the option of switching to a lower paying job that I preferred, taking employer subsidized college classes, and working my way to a place where I wanted to be.

 I had the freedom to do this, twice, in part because I was not the sole support of a family with children, which is a freedom some people may not have. The second time was when we moved south for DH's health in an economic downturn. I found that my skills in a male dominated field in which I was one of those new, untrusted females, had little to no demand in Tourist Land. If I wanted to put food on the table, I had to start at the bottom in something that interested me and do it all over again, so that's what I did. Meanwhile, we ate a lot of macaroni and cheese and rode bicycles for entertainment.

Not everyone can just drop out and go, this instant. But almost everyone can use a despised job and parttime college classes to get somewhere else they like better until they can go hobo.

 

[gcal]

If college is not someone's cup of tea, there are skilled trades that one can learn abd use on the road. So, they take a couple years to learn. So what? You probably need a few yearsvto get your debt paid off and get a nest egg together, anyway. So, what is the complaint with learning something that will get you money on the road at the same time?

 

[DannyB1954]

The original post had to do with someone who had disabilities and a dysfunctional vehicle.
My advice along with that of others was to gain an employable skill. Traveling broke going from town to town washing dishes is not a long term plan. I say don't avoid paying into Social Security because one day it may be the only thing you have. If you learn the skills to get a job with a 401k or other type of retirement you will be better off.
I personally am pro union. I was a shop steward for many years. The money people have organisations and lawyers to represent their interests, the workers should have their own.
Even migrant farm workers, (can't get more mobile than that kind of life), have people looking after them.

 

[AngryVanMan]

Trades could be a good course of action, BLS has Construction listed as a slowly growing industry out to 2024, although the sector as a whole (Goods producing) is a net zero over that time frame - so many in the mining and manufacturing fields may shift into construction naturally as they lose their existing jobs, making new entry more difficult. There was an IBEW guy on YouTube van dwelling for awhile, but he's not in the van any more.

Home health aides and personal care aides, nursing/medical assistants are fast growing fields, no additional school or at most a certificate required. Healthcare support remains the fastest growing sub-sector in the economy out to 2024. Low pay is the major drawback, with only a $2-3000 average wage bump over fast food.

The major problem over the next few decades is still available jobs, and it's manifold. The fastest growing and largest sectors are the lowest paid sectors. The labor force is anticipated to grow by about 7.8 million out to 2024, but the working age population of the country is expected to increase by about 15.3 million, meaning there will only be a new job available for only about half of all new working age adults in the country - this will continue to force labor participation rates down from where they are now. This is something economists know well, but your local high school guidance counselor won't be advertising.

Wages are the next big problem, and corporations are doing everything they can to keep wage growth "under control". Sponsoring and investing in new schools in high paid professions like law and pharmacy is contributing to a massive oversupply of graduates in those fields, and it has resulted in strong downward pressure on new graduate income and job availability.

They are running the same game plan with the newly-named "STEM" initiatives nationwide to push more students into those fields, increasing competitiveness and decreasing compensation requirements. STEM is a tougher nut to crack because the schoolwork is demanding and only desirable to a small percentage of all entering students.

The solution for this has been importing foreign workers with the H1B Visa program, where you can get an east-Asian to work for a fraction of the nominal wage, and they will work insane hours for that pay and stay in company housing, remaining completely loyal to the company under threat of deportation. It's a variant on the railroad and mining industries "company town" wage slave initiatives of the 1800's. This program of "in-sourcing" has expanded to lower paying peripheral fields like IT support as well, and has proven more cost effective than outsourcing those jobs.

I assume they've done a risk assessment and concluded that the likelihood of major labor revolts and collective organizing threats has been abated sufficiently with lobbyist legislation and keeping the population sufficiently distracted, divided, and entertained. If they do have a problem in the future, militarized police forces should be effective at smashing any troublesome social movements.

All of this boils down to increasing inequality on a massive scale; simply meaning that the share of total income to labor will probably continue to decrease, while the share of total income for capital owners will increase. What's currently much debated in academic intellectual-class journals is whether this rising inequality poses any problem for those who have the power to change it.

 

[Wanderer]

Some people are like sheep who are most comfortable in the herd, doing as they are told and staying safe. Nothing wrong with that at all!! If it works for you, great!  

But for some of us it is a horrible way to live, we must think and act for ourselves. We don't worship the safety money brings us because we see it as selling ourselves into slavery and de-humanizing. We worship a life lived to its fullest even if it's on the edge--and sometimes over the edge. We can't help it, living as free human beings and not sheep is the only way we can be happy.

"It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."J.Krishnamurti

Don't forget:

"It's not the years in your life, but the life in your years" Abraham Lincoln...

 

[cyndi]

There's some off topic tangents happening here. If you want to talk labor unions, etc. It's time to start a new thread. Keeping in mind that labor unions tend to be divisive, politacally. that's a slippery slope that would get the thread/posts deleted (said the union steward, in case your wondering)

 

[akrvbob]

I think most people here are saying the same thing. No one is saying stay chained to a lifestyle, but some are emphasizing have emergency cash before you abscond.

I disagree, I think there are several people here who are saying "Be chained to the American Dream and anything else is a mistake." They are saying do whatever it takes to make it come true and if it hasn't then you just haven't tried hard enough. You're a slacker.

That is the exact opposite message of this website. 

The underlying message of this website is "The American Dream is giant lie and scam that is unbelievably destructive to everyone on it and to the planet as a whole." Abandon it like the sewer it is as soon as you possibly can--which is much sooner than you think. 

You will be better off, everyone else will be better off and the planet won't have to crush us like the toxic cancer we are.  

Notice, they get to say it over and over again--no matter how much I hate it. But every time you say it I'm going to tell you that you are wrong. I went through the birthing pains of creating this thing--I GET TO DETERMINE WHAT IT'S MESSAGE IS--NOT YOU!!

I still can't comprehend the incredible rudeness of going to someones website with the specific purpose of proving them wrong and yourself right. And then fighting with them at every opportunity and screaming "Censorship" even though you get to make your point every time (as long as you are polite about it). 

I can't figure out why you're here? There are two reasons that I can see 

1) You're a troll just wanting to fight and cause harm. But I don't believe that. I'm confident you sincerely believe what you are saying and honestly think you are doing everyone a good thing by warning them about my wrong message. That's the only reason I haven't banned you. I like you, you're good people and your motives are honorable. 
2) This is the best website you can find on the topic of living mobile. This I do believe. I'm continually stunned by how wonderful most of the people here are!!! Giving, caring, generous to the core of their being--it's truly amazing.

Do you ever wonder how a website built on such a (what you see as) a bad message can be so full of great people? Shouldn't the poison of a evil message only draw evil and bad people? 

Just the opposite a great message, has drawn great people! The message you are working so hard against has great fruit. Most RV sites are based on the evil message of the American Dream and so the fruit is generally bad. 

But, your missing the most important part of my message. It's not just that the American Dream is shit, it's that there is a better way and that better way is a life based on Tribal Mobile Living. 

The Tribal part of that is critically important and is the opposite of the American Dream. You guys want to be part of a tribe because that's what humans evolved to be. The American Dream hates a tribe and works to kill it. 

What you don't realize is that when you work for the American Dream, you work to kill the Tribe, the thing that draws and keeps you here no matter how wrong and abrasive I am.

I really hope you will choose to embrace the tribe and at least stop fighting so hard for the thing that wants to kill it. 
Bob

 

[AngryVanMan]

Are those last two posts (Cyndi & Bob's) related, or separate? Are we not supposed to talk about only union jobs, or any jobs if they could be construed as career/american dream related in some way? Sorry for the confusion, but I'd like to be on the same page of whatever playbook we're using here.