Funds Before Vandwelling, or Vandwelling Before Funds [split]

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my Ex lived in rent controlled housing after our separation
Building out a van into an RV would not have been allowed on the property, not any large RV, and if your vehicle leaked, you had to fix or get rid of it
very controlling
Hopefully you have better luck with it, Queen
 
Txjaybird said:
I live in "income based" housing in the "elderly/disabled" section.  I call it the "Old Bats and Old Farts " section   :D 

 

Thanks, Jewellann, that made me laugh!!

I used to manage govt. funded housing when I worked in Mental Health, I'd forgotten about the minimum residence requirement, thanks for the reminder.

And I hear you about "last moves", FL was supposed to be it, now we keep saying to each other "no more planning, just take things day by day".  Although promptly ignoring said advice with planning on moving into the income dependant place.  LOL


Art - I'd use my brothers place for any build or storage issues, but thanks for the heads up.
 
Well if anything can be learned from this thread it's that there is no one right way to go through this thing called life.......and if there is, nobody has figured it out just yet. It's sort of like picking out a vehicle to live in.......there's no all purpose perfect rig.......each has it's pro's and con's. And such is life, all we can do is try to make the best decisions for ourselves, learn from our mistakes, and keep heading on down the road.

I hope nobody's feelings get hurt or anyone feels attacked or insulted in these heated threads. And even more important, no one feels any ill will towards another after somethings been said. Always remember in text, things can be easily taken out of context, and it's very easy to misinterpret someone's feelings/intentions. Everybody gets to put their two cents in and then the reader gets to take it all in and use what best fits his/her situation.

At the end of the day we're all one big family and every family gets in a fight now and then........and in my opinion brings everyone closer after the smoke clears.
 
This "controversial" line of discussion is one of the most interesting I've read on the site in recent memory, I'm glad those who are posting have done so. I think I find it so interesting simply because it deals with some of the most fundamental and important topical subject matter we can possibly discuss, and it smacks of honesty and conviction.

I like Speed's comment about religion, politics, and lifestyle, but I don't fully agree with it. Those types of subjects are at the forefront of many people's lives that are concerned with more than just themselves. I don't agree with the part about alienating friends though, I have plenty of friends who I disagree with vehemently on these types of topics, but I still value the discussion on these matters more than almost anything else we talk about. I do agree with that part about driving people away. To many, broaching topics of social importance is taboo, it's why I think our most popular modern forms of entertainment are almost entirely escapist drivel with little to no embodied social value. Bread and circuses for when the hide is too tough to chew and the pill too bitter to swallow.
 
Every Road Leads Home said:
At the end of the day we're all one big family and every family gets in a fight now and then........and in my opinion brings everyone closer after the smoke clears.
This is wishful thinking. The smoke doesn't clear long enough for you to see what's happening. One by one, your "family" is deciding to go somewhere else for Thanksgiving Dinner.

This thread showcases all the reasons I rarely post here anymore. (Heck, I rarely even log in...) Anyway, it's all here: inconsiderate/out of touch advice, smugness, sanctimony, heavy handed moderation/censorship, sycophancy...  

Along these same lines, I note with disappointment that Bitty has "left the room" due to the hostility. She has a great mind, and that's a rarity. People like that don't come along often enough. Others have complained about the hostility and the censorship. It has obviously driven members away (myself included) yet it continues unabated.

Bob really iced the cake here by being condescending toward people who work while he enjoys the carefree lifestyle he advocates at least in part by feeding on the taxes working people pay - not to mention the revenue he receives from this site.

Perhaps a little gratitude and sensitivity might be in order?

This forum serves a very specialized audience. There is good information to be found here. Here's the rub: there is a lot of disaffection happening here, and the attrition rate shouldn't be as high as it is. It wouldn't be, if the good stuff wasn't routinely disrupted by such dismal behavior.

A bunch of you need to take a hard look at the way you treat others, because this could and should be a larger and more vibrant community than it is.

I'm specifically addressing those who have the power to censor this post or ban me. Ball's in your court: you can stop and think about what goes wrong here all too regularly (and perhaps try to improve on what's happening now) or you can go ahead prove my point...
 
cognitive dissonance said:
Bob really iced the cake here by being condescending toward people who work while he enjoys the carefree lifestyle he advocates at least in part by feeding on the taxes working people pay - not to mention the revenue he receives from this site.

Perhaps a little gratitude and sensitivity might be in order?

It seems to me that Bob has paid his dues to society.  His income, (While none of our business) is not welfare.  (FREE MONEY)  I know enough to be sure of that. 

The income derived from this site is well earned.  First by passing along information to those asking for it without charging a single penny!

Second, I hve had to moderate a bunch of opinionated people who think they are the only one in this world that is right. Bob does not earn enough to put up with the abuse I have seen lumped at him.  None of the moderators anywhere do!

I do not agree with his opinions all the time.  There are times when I force myself to back away from responding to many posters, not just him.  It is part of growing up, not just older.  

Think about it.

This is a free place to post.

The rules are few.

Perhaps a little gratitude and sensitivity might be in order?    :idea:
 
from my point of view the only one's that are wrong are the one's not speaking their mind,if your not going to voice up then be happy with what you wont get and dont complain when you dont get it

if you cant get in to a heated discussion without bringing in hate and anger then you have a personable problem that should be addressed

and whatever you do,dont suck the goo out of a crawdads head,that is gross
 
i would advise to have a vehicle in full mechanical order with new tires and at least 10k cash saved up before setting out,that should buy you enough time to get whatever on the road income you choice to do
 
Funds Before Vandwelling, or Vandwelling Before Funds



Sometimes you have to say WTF! and go for it



]I remember working with one person who kept talking about her big adventure. She and three other girls crossed state lines to go skiing without insurance! :huh:


How sad



My first time out there was a problem with my source of funds. I sat for three weeks in a truck stop waiting for gas money. I was more careful after that. I enjoyed the time to sit and think...


When I broke down, I had enough food and water to survive for more than a month. The tribe helped out some, just enough to make the difference, but not enough to become a burden on them. I kept my independence, but knew there was a helping hand available if I desperately needed it. My gratitude to all of them.


]Sometimes a person does not have a choice. Life happens, and if you are caught in the big bathroom vent fan, ~~~ A van can be a palace. Having an emergency fund is ideal, but not everyone has a choice. color][/size][/size]
 
A big part of the problem in my opinion is people talking past each other, misinterpreting viewpoints and stances and a lack of willingness to engage with one another civilly, either in public or privately. Censorship exacerbates this and can be a villainous tool if it shuts down any chance of constructive discourse. Disengagement is the inevitable outcome of a disaffected voice of dissent if they simply cannot count on their voice(s) being heard unmolested.

Fights as ERLH mentioned, and C.D. commented on, I don't think actual "fights" are usually constructive. I don't fight with, scream at, berate, or otherwise antagonize my friends that do not share my point of view. Debates on the other hand, or civil discourse in general, are extremely useful and poignantly illuminate the others' thought process. How can you ever come to know a person or grow your own understanding if you do not dare to broach matters of import or differentiation?

Respect for the person, and the person's right to have an opinion (no intrinsic need to respect the opinion itself) goes a long way. Limited censorship that does not extend beyond the restriction of personal attacks or unsubstantiated vitriol has worked well for all forms of debate. Institutions that go further to suppress opinion, even offensive or minority opinions can quickly devolve into echo chambers of groupthink. Critical thought is fostered by challenging assumptions and viewpoints, not by coddling each other with unabashed deference and liberal application of kid gloves.

I think, based on Bitty's "Leaving :(" thread, that she was the target of personal attack, and that is shameful but appears to have been corrected, albeit after-the-fact. She also seemed distressed by some other people's opinions in reading her final posts, that were sharing a viewpoint that was counter to her own - in other words they challenged her viewpoint. I have not done enough background reading to see if these opinions were shared sincerely and matter of fact, or if they were diatribes of condescension - there would be a marked difference. In several of Bitty's posts, it seemed she reacted very strongly to countering opinions that were not on point simply because the poster might have lacked intimate familiarity with her situation. She may have been able to handle these objections more diplomatically herself, and I think she may have potentially misconstrued ignorance as animus in a few instances.

Condescending attitudes are to be somewhat expected and probably should be tolerated, to a limited degree. If someone shares a blatantly prejudiced viewpoint, to condescend to the irrationality is understood as a natural human behavior. Heavy-handed tongue lashing couched as opinion however, as I take it, would be no better than a veiled personal attack. The call for sensitivity is applicable to us all, and if we all shoveled it on in heaps it would go miles towards resolution.

If we address points of contention specifically, rather than generally, more can be accomplished and understood. Addressing the group, rather than an individual, is weaseling out of getting a pointed, useful response. It's easy to redress a grievance with a clarification, retraction, or an apology if necessary, if the grievance is focused and tangible rather than some generalized sentiment. Stop beating up groups that can't respond as one voice by using plural pronouns, instead address the individual's behavior or opinions/sentiments that you disagree with or even take offense with.

To leave a community based on the sharing of ideas that you don't like is not adult behavior. To leave based on persecution is another matter entirely. To conflate the two would be a grievous error.
 
A wise person learns from all, takes what benefits them and tries to understand the reasoning behind the rest. I've learned from a number of you as it dealt with how I'd like things to go. Having my health change my abilities but not my desires means a whole different set of perspectives become much clearer and I might add, applicable.
 
The current strategy for myself involves the acquisition of adequate financial resources to tackle the largest start-up costs for the program. I know the largest financial barrier into the lifestyle involves a vehicle. The fact that some people do not have another choice except to dwell in a vehicle remains a valid point, and I do not know the appropriate decision in that situation.
 
GotSmart said:
This is a free place to post.
While I appreciate your post was meant to be conciliatory, it can be equally noted that in a medium and venue driven by content, said content is by and large provided by contributors and done so for free as well.
 
Nobody is going to like everybody. Sometimes we just need a break from each other. Some people don't deal well emotionally with conflict or the complexity of differing sides to the same story. Some just don't want to deal with it. Society benefits us all, otherwise we would still be hunters and gathers. Is there a lot wrong with it, sure. Wishing life would be perfect with philosophy isn't going to make it so.

I know or knew a large number of people who didn't prepare for their later years and are suffering now. I don't think it fair to those looking for guidence to tell them don't be apart of the "system" while the person giving the advice collects benefits from that system. Impossible to say where the advisor would now be had they followed their own advice. Maybe they would be wealthy, or maybe they would be on their way to go pick sweet potatoes so that can afford to eat. I bet as a whole, there are more people on their way to pick potatoes than there are wealthy people.

I don't see anything evil in work. The employer doesn't say buy the big house, buy the new car, wear nice clothes and jewelery, get the newest electronic contraption. People take on these obligations all on their own. Often they go into debt to do it. Not the employer's fault.
I blame the woes of the working class on free trade. There is nothing fair about a person who only needs $30 a month to live competing with someone who almost needs $30 an hour to pay their bills. ( Places like San Francisco). The American worker would be much better off without big money manipulating trade laws. Dropping out of the "system" isn't going to fix that.
 
AltTransBikes said:
While I appreciate your post was meant to be conciliatory, it can be equally noted that in a medium and venue driven by content, said content is by and large provided by contributors and done so for free as well.

You are free to play in another cat box, if you do not like this one.  Perhaps someone will pay for your opinion.   ;)

I once charged $80 for service calls.   :p
 
IGBT said:
I think Bob is saying don't sell your soul to the corporations who will screw you in the end (cut your pension, change it to a 401k then drop the company match when the economy turns south while still paying millions in performance bonus to the CEO).  Most of us have to work for these entities but if we don't fall into the trap of thinking we need a 3000 sqft house, 2 cars, and a new Iphone every year, we might be able to sidestep working for them until we are dead.

There is a lot of truth in what he is saying.

That could be. And what others are saying is that life ain't easy or free. If you don't have to jump without a parachute, don't do it. A broken down junker with no way for you to get money to fix it will turn you into a pedestrian real fast.

DH and I have done fulltiming both ways. Once, health issues created financial issues that forced it on us. It was miserable, humiliating and scary.  But the fact that I had marketable skills put food on the table and kept the truck running and paid for DH's meds. That seriously reduced the stress of a situation we had not anticipated and did not want and (in the beginning) hated. 

25 years later, we are doing it, again. This time, we chose it. But we took a few years to build some assets, including DH's skill set, so that his health issues no longer stand in the way if he needs a temporary paycheck.

There is a middle ground between becoming a lifelong, materialistic corporate drone buried in debt, and in running off with an empty wallet, no marketable skills, a broken down junker, and the vague expectation that the universe will provide.

There is a tendency on the forum to exaggerate what others are actually saying and to fight that strawman to the death.
 
GotSmart said:
You are free to play in another cat box, if you do not like this one.  Perhaps someone will pay for your opinion.  

Not sure what in my comment prompted this response but thanks for pointing out the obvious! ;)
 
Wow, I'm fairly new here but I have NEVER seen Bob telling people not to work.  As I'm reading through these responses to Bob's post I'm confused because it seems like you all are reading something different than I did.

I didn't find his response condescending at all, or rude.  

What I take from his post is that so many people think living the American Dream is the way to go.  Work like a dog, hate your job, live a life of debt to keep up with the Jones', wait for retirement and maybe enjoy that for several years before your life is done.  He's showing an alternative to living the life you want NOW.  And he never said you didn't have to work to do that.

I just turned 47 and my entire life I did what I was "supposed to".  I've been working since I was 15, got a full time job right out of high school, ten years later put myself through college full time nights while working full time days, got married, bought a house, lived like an asshole for years in debt and finally woke up.  I've been divorced for a couple years now, I have paid off all my debt, I have an emergency fund savings, and I'm working on getting myself in a van and on the road as soon as I possibly can.  I'm planning it and saving for it because I have the opportunity to.  I'm doing this by choice.

Bob NEVER said to just up and go live in a van with no plan.  Although he does give options of how to do it if your are forced to, which some people do this by necessity not by choice.

I don't find any offense to him saying people are sheeps.  Most people live like sheeps.  They live the "American Dream" and hate their lives.  Not everyone, buy most I would say.

I'm just happy I woke up now at 47 instead of continuing to live like a sheep until retirement age of, what is it now, 70?  Please, that's no way to live.

I couldn't be happier that I found Bob and this webpage, it has done nothing but help me find a way to finally enjoy my life and live it like it's meant to be lived.......on my own terms and not what society says it should be.

Of course not everyone is going to agree with everything said here but the least we could all do is show a little respect to Bob and to each other.
 
Didn't anyone here ever have a job they loved and worked for the pleasure of it? Seems like there have been so many people who worked just for the money. At a very young age I've seen children navigating towards doing something they enjoyed and then going ahead and learning more about what they wanted to do by getting an education so they can live their dream. Not the dream of owning a ton of stuff but the dream of a calling. Some are called to be couch potatoes but some are called upon to produce and it has nothing to do with being brain washed.

Bob has his calling to help people in his own way with what he knows which has to do with his lifestyle. I'm sure he works his butt off doing so but he gets to do what he loves which is great. Other people are working for a passion as well and not just for the dollars.

I loved working and I still feel the need to keep myself creating. I love to create by sewing, building, and various other crafting. I love to just paint a room. I love mowing grass! I don't do those things for money at all but they are very satisfying to me.

Some unfortunate souls never do find out if they have a passion for anything and are just as unhappy sitting on a couch or sitting in a van.

I want to go everywhere and do everything and continue to craft and learn until I'm too old to move at all. If I had no money I wouldn't be happy because I want to travel and see things. I don't want to be confined to a small area like a few states out west. I want to see the world some more. I'm not done!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I tend to agree more or less completely with Bob's sentiment towards modern society and generally find the nomadic strategy to have a lot of potential benefits for marginalized workers. For instance, if you adapted to nomadic living and a frugal lifestyle and were young about five years ago, you could have made a killing working on the Bakken shale play during the boom. Opportunities like that come along maybe once a lifetime if you're lucky, so being ready to pull up stakes and seize it does have some advantage.

Mobile living can be a low overhead lifestyle, or it can be luxurious conspicuous consumption in a rolling resort. Bob's showing the way forward with a no nonsense frugal lifestyle, where you can cut your living expenses to as little as $6-10k per year! When it comes down to it, cutting expenses is easier and more productive than attempting to increase income if you are allocating savings from your income for the future.

Assume no pension, no social security, the general rule of thumb with long term financially independent/early retirees is you need to save 25-30 times your annual expenses to have enough money for retirement, at any age. If you can honestly live the life you want on $6K per year, you'd need to save 150-180K to get that 6K per year. If you make the US average income of $32K/year and spend $6k of it, and tax liability of about $5500/year, it would take you around 7.5 - 9 years to save enough to live on.

Frugal/mobile living allows you to hack the retirement equation, it's all about the savings rate. In the above (extreme) example, you'd be saving about 62% of your income each year. The higher the percentage of income you can save (surplus) the sooner you are theoretically financially independent. Once you understand the power of having a surplus as a percentage of income and how that relates to becoming financially independent (your savings earned interest can pay your bills as needed) you can use a simple chart from Mr. Money Mustache to see how many more years you need to work.

As for my family personally, we are not striking out for the road right away to live our lives free to roam the wilderness, for the simple fact that we have good income that is tied to a fixed location! We are preparing to move into our van, but we'll keep making hay while the sun is shining until we no longer want/need to do so. Right now it makes the most sense for us, coupled with the fact that our increased savings rate while downsizing our lives to fit in the van shaves decades off our need to earn income by selling our labor to corporate sugar daddies.
 
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