Funds Before Vandwelling, or Vandwelling Before Funds [split]

[Hippiechk]

I have found myself at the other end of this in a way and yet in the same situation almost.

My health is such that I can't really do full time solo, solo I am though. The basics of day to day, local stuff, dealing with my tanks & basic life...I am managing. Throw in ANY kind of curvball or travelling much over an hour...it's very difficult.

All that said, its good to be at this point! I have paid enough dues...by working enough that I have a small pension that frees me to live, albeit modestly, but by my own choices.

I have also put in the time to have earned the camaraderie of my friends. I will have a companion driver to head south who will trailer his motorcycle to Arizona & ride back. I have a few year round Arizona friends waiting to lend a bit of a hand (or a big one, I sure hope that doesn't happen...again!!!) but more importantly they will wander about with me & include me in their plans even if I can't make it a lot of the time. They are all from 2 categories...gypsies & bikers.

This isn't meant to be a brag, although I am proud to be the receiver of such awesomeness! It's meant to.say that this life is something you work both towards and at. When you are up you help the down because eventually everyone goes down. You also bring something to the table yourself though too, other than need. I have been there for a lot of people so its karma time.

Making the intended choice to go on the road with limited abilities, no RV skills, inadequate funds, lacking proper equipment, no support network & without any actual plan...????

 

[akrvbob]

In 2008 when the economy collapsed this website was one of very few on the Web dedicated to living super cheaply in a car or van. So when people were suddenly without a job, then unable to pay their mortgage or rent, then on the verge of being homeless, they started googling "how to live cheap in a car or van" and they found this site. In their hopelessness and despair they found a beacon of hope.

So they started emailing me, looking desperately for help and answers. To the very best of my ability, I listened to every story and answered every single one of them and offered them all the hope and advice I could. Then in 2011 I started the RTR and this forum. Again, offering every single person who has ever come to me all the advice, time and help I could give them. I have literally counseled many 1000s of people who were either desperately in need of financial help, or who so despised their lives of following the American Dream that they simply MUST find a way out of them. I heard these stories over and over again:

1) They were on such a small SS or SSDI that their lives were in desperate poverty.
2) Were professionals but had been thrown away with the garbage in 2008 and were now working at Burgerking and losing their house.
3) Earned minimum wage and could not find a better job and saw no hope for their future.
4) Had graduated college with huge debt but couldn't get a job in 5 years and worked at McDonads to barely survive.
5) Worked 2 jobs but had no pension, couldn't save a penny and their lives were miserable.

Why am I saying this? Because I see this country from a very, very different perspective than most of you who are telling me how wrong I am in this thread. My guess is most of you are older and well established and see the US economy from a perspective of Baby Boomers who see the economy of the 1960s-1990s. You are giving the advice that was given to you and worked extremely well for you and for nearly everyone you know. If it worked for you and your friends, then of course it should work for everyone, right?

I'm sorry, but based on my experience in the last 8 years I am totally convinced that the world in which that advice worked is gone. It will still work for a percentage of the population, but it is not good advice for a huge segment of the population.

For most workers today, their old age is going to be bad and there is very little they can do to change that. In our low-wage, service economy pensions are gone and very few people have any real chance of having money left over at the end of the month to save for the future. The statistics show clearly that the majority of American workers have no short term or long term savings and their only retirement plan is SS and to work till they die. That is the future of this county whether you believe it or not.

The advice that worked so well in the world in which you grew-up is now a pipe-dream. The majority of American workers are trapped in a cycle of hopelessness they didn't create and they can't break out of.

My advice is tailored to the reality that many people find themselves in. If your future is going to be bad the very best thing you can do is to learn to live as cheaply as possible today and enjoy it as much as you can today.

I'm teaching skills and strategies for the real world of America in 2016.

1) Buy a van and learn to live in it and you will never be homeless.
2) Learn to boondock and you can cut your expenses by more than half.
3) Learn to work at jobs on a traveling circuit and you'll be able to earn enough to live on the super low expenses you have.
4) Break out of the consumer mentality and learn to buy the fewest possible things conceivable, then when money is super-tight, you can still survive on it.
5) If your old age is bad, these skills will make it far better than it would have been had you followed normal advice. And your heart will still be full to the brim with glorious memories of a life lived extremely well!!

Here is the remarkable thing about this. Not only is this sound economic advice for 2016, it's also the very best way for many people to live and become very happy.

Of the (literally) 1000s of people I've counseled and taught this way of life, a very large percentage of them have come back to thank me profusely for showing them a far better way to live. They tell me they have never been happier and that I saved their life. And for that I am incredibly grateful.

I'm not going to change my advise. Instead I'm going to work much harder to get the word out there because I'm convinced that more people than ever NEED to hear it, and I can't bear the thought of them being alone with their hopelessness and desperately needing a way out of this disaster that we call the American Dream.
Bob

 

[AngryVanMan]

For us, it was graduating into a recession with six figure student loan debt. In our case it helped us land good pay, but that is the exception, not the rule now. The interest alone on those loans on the normal payoff schedule of 10 years would have been enough to buy 2 of the houses I grew up in for what my parents paid! We decided to cut our spending to the bone, forgo all illusions of the American Dream BS, and live as cheap or cheaper than we did in college.

So many of my high school friends that didn't do college are still working at low paying jobs, and a sizeable portion have taken the disability road and bowed out of the workforce for good or have been shipped off to prison for possessing illegal plant material. Maybe they'll use them for the slave labor to make Victoria's Secret junk, one of the many corporate benefactors of our glorious prison "work programs." Good thing we have such a high incarceration rate!

Of the ones who went to college, I can count on one hand those who were truly successful, a few became doctors, one is a electrical engineer, a civil engineer, and one a software engineer. Other than that, the college grads in business/arts are doing unpaid or underpaid internships, or spinning their wheels in menial jobs that didn't require a degree 10 years ago but now do simply because there are too many grads for the real jobs out there.

The ones who truly screwed themselves over were the ones who took out student loans and didn't finish their degree, stuck with non-dischargable debt that many of them can't pay enough to keep the loan balance from increasing each month. They go on Income Based Repayment and pay 10% (or 15%?) of their take-home and watch the balance go up, and up, and up. In 20 years they get "forgiven" except for the massive tax bill that comes along with it that most don't have the ability to save for. In hindsight, some of them would have probably been better off with a prison sentence instead of a college acceptance letter.

I'd say keep doing what you're doing Bob, there should be a pretty good stream of social misfits getting chewed up and spit out by the system, at least the ones who don't decide to blow their brains out first.

 

[wagoneer]

Never went to college never wanted to go to college washed dishes joined a band traveled the world got married at 39 had kids and bought a house.
no debt .

 

[storm6398]

I agree with both points of view and here is why. I bought a mini rv as opposed to a van because the rv was cheaper and well cared for and didn't need any work other than tires. But tires were $1000. I left NY with $2300.00 in my pocket and travelled south for three weeks until I ended up with just enough money to rent a spot for a month with a little extra to live on. It took me three weeks to find a job through a temp agency - I have worked through temp agencies many times and I have never had to wait that long to find a job. (I have a degree in accounting.) I applied for many minimum wage jobs but not one call back. Two days after starting my job my brakes went out. $600.00 to repair.


My job was only 20 hours a week but at good pay so I was able to survive and have a little bit of fun money too. ( I just hired on at more money and more hours). I have found that living in my "home on wheels" is indeed much cheaper, and I have a much better quality of life. I get to go to a lot of interesting places, meet lots of people and have a whole lot of fun.

 

[storm6398]

I agree with both points of view and here is why. I bought a mini rv as opposed to a van because the rv was cheaper and well cared for and didn't need any work other than tires. But tires were $1000. I left NY with $2300.00 in my pocket and travelled south for three weeks until I ended up with just enough money to rent a spot for a month with a little extra to live on. It took me three weeks to find a job through a temp agency - I have worked through temp agencies many times and I have never had to wait that long to find a job. (I have a degree in accounting.) I applied for many minimum wage jobs but not one call back. Two days after starting my job my brakes went out. $600.00 to repair.


My job was only 20 hours a week but at good pay so I was able to survive and have a little bit of fun money too. ( I just hired on at more money and more hours). I have found that living in my "home on wheels" is indeed much cheaper, and I have a much better quality of life. I get to go to a lot of interesting places, meet lots of people and have a whole lot of fun.

 

[storm6398]

 I guess it depends on how you want to live. My experience has been as follows:

Bought a mini motor home for $2,800 that was in great condition with low mileage. Needed tires and a window fixed - $1,250.00, registration and inspection, and insurance $250.00. Left NY with about $2,300.00 in my pocket. Travelled for three weeks until I ran out of funds to keep going. Rented a long term spot in an rv park for $285.00/month. The rv is not stealthy, and I hate sleeping in parking lots - I have done it but its just not comfortable for me. Plus I  like water, sewer and electric and neighbors. I have a friend who only does the parking lot thing (she has a job) and she is totally cool with that. So it is what you are comfortable with.

It took three weeks to get a job through a temp agency - I have a degree in accounting. Applied for many minimum wage jobs - not one even called back. Couldn't even get a call back at Labor Ready. One concern most employers had was how long I was going to be in the area. The job I did get was 20 hrs at a good rate for the area I am in. I was able to live on $936.00 a month and that included having enough money for an extra road trip or two a month but no savings for emergency repairs. Two days after I started my job my brakes went out and it was $600.00 to get them fixed.(thankfully I had left $1000.00 in the bank back home so that was covered) I have also had one other major repair that ate up the rest of that account. 

I get a whopping 9 miles to the gallon so gas is a major expense if I take a couple of hundred mile road trip. There are also things like vet bills - my dogs trifexus is $25.00 a pill which she gets every month. Good Food is not cheap. There is also toilet paper, paper towels, laundry detergent, etc that quickly adds up. So I think that you absolutely need a nest egg or Plan B before you grab your stuff and go. That being said...

If you have to work - find a job you like - doing what you like to do. But be realistic. If what you like to do is going to require you to be in an office or city don't run off to the middle of nowhere and then lament about how you can't find a job. If internet and phone are absolutely essential to your existence then plan for those expenses. Decide what you absolutely have to have and plan on having to make that much money. Plan on repairs, oil changes, etc. And also plan on entertainment because that's why you are doing this right? To get out and see things?

Bob's advice on downsizing, getting rid of s*it you don't need, and not buying more s*it you don't need is spot on. I am happier now than when I had a house, car, etc and worked a job I hated because I had to pay for the house, car, etc. Had I not found his website I would never have thought such a thing was possible. It just never occurred to me that there was a different way to do things. I think we all owe Bob a huge amount of gratitude for showing us that there are options other than what we have been taught.

Wishing you a most delightful day!




Wishing you an awesome day!

 

[Queen]

"Trying to be happy by accumulating possessions is like trying to satisfy hunger by taping sandwiches all over my body."
-Roger J. Corless

Just seemed apropos.

 

[ShawnaNana]

What a great quote!

 

[Gadget728]

I've been working for my Dad since I was 6 yrs. old. He worked me hard, and didn't pay too well. I got fed up a couple of times and worked other places, but only for short periods, the longest about 3 years. I always came back if he called for help, and the last time was 6 years ago. I'm 56 now, I've been self employed for about 11 years now, but I still work for my 90 yr. old Dad!

A couple of years ago, I realized I had no retirement, had never saved a dime and was getting older. When I came back to my home town to take care of him, I realized my retirement is the building he still owns, and I'll inherit some of it sometime after he passes. He's made 2 announcements this year which distressed me: First - His estate was to be shared between the four of us children, now it's sliced to include 2 more cuts, a nephew and a half brother who ever lived with us. I'm the only family member who ever worked for him, and I'm probably the lucky one. Second - As long as the building makes money, even after he dies, it doesn't sell, hence no inheritance for a long time. My millionaire sister in New York is in charge of his estate, so she won't be in any hurry on my account. I consider my retirement as non existent and have decided to take a different path.
I watched the video "without bound" several times before knowing anything about van dwelling or Bob. I feel like all the years of low pay, small houses and apartments have led me to this place. I'm already semi prepared, I've had a bug out bag of some sort for over 30 years. I've got an Astro van I'm practicing in every chance I get. Because I've been trying out different campers, tents and hammocks, I kinda already know what doesn't work for me and what will. All the while I've been gathering most of the essentials I'll need when I finally buy my bigger van. Buddy heater, luggable loo, portable shower, you get the picture. My sister didn't buy my house, but I stand to make more buy selling it to someone else, no biggie.

What I thought this thread was about was "how prepared do you have to be to start this lifestyle", not debate Bobs very easy to understand lessons on cheap RV living and the philosophy (in my mind) Don't wait until it's too late to start living. I've known several people work until they are forced to retire, only to die within weeks of retiring. I won't be one of those.

Personally, I could hit the road tomorrow and have enough on the ball to always be able to make money. I won't though, because I believe if you want to be successful at this lifestyle, especially the part about living happy, you should make a plan, get a decent vehicle, outfit it as well as you can and have a few bucks when you set out on your journey. This is purely my opinion, based on my situation, everybody is in a different situation.

I've been singularly focused on getting rid of my junk and selling my house to accomplish my goal of van dwelling. I've been sick since May with an, until recently, unexplained ailment. CT scan showed no stroke and my blood work came back saying my cholesterol was 1 point too high. Last week I found a tick in a hard to see spot, and may have Lyme disease. I named my tick Tillie, anything you feed for 3 months is a pet and needs a name. She is on my desk in a jar and I give her water every other day. I'm on antibiotics and am still working in my shop everyday and still helping my Dad do his stuff. I am very sick.

I ordered and new shade cloth, and bought a 2 gal. pump sprayer. My venture will continue until I either end up Full Timing or I die.

Bob - You keep preachin' your philosophy, like all philosophies they don't need to apply to everyone. I see your way of thinking, like putting on a new pair of Glasses! Our economy is in the pisser, I'll adapt and live, not just break even and survive. There is a huge difference.

 

[VanKitten]

Some things are choices for some people.
Like living on the road.

I have never seen it as a choice for myself. I cannot be content in one place for long. About 3 months is my average length of stay. One way or another I have put myself in the position to move along.

For some people, all other considerations take a back seat. Whatever it takes...that I am driven to do.

Finding myself the caregiver for 2 frail parents is challenge enough...add to that the absolute requirement of living in one place. The burden of that will be rubbing my veneer pretty thin.
But, the need to be moving along will be ever present

So, what I am saying is, for some people...the need to live as a nomad must be satisfied. The only question is how to do it and sustain it. There isn't any deep philosophical issue. For people like me...we come asking pragmatic questions, not seeking a wider debate on the issues of materialism in our society. And probably feel that a debate about the pros and cons of "dropping out" (as we said back in the 60s) is irrelevant.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I've been singularly focused on getting rid of my junk and selling my house to accomplish my goal of van dwelling. I've been sick since May with an, until recently, unexplained ailment. CT scan showed no stroke and my blood work came back saying my cholesterol was 1 point too high. Last week I found a tick in a hard to see spot, and may have Lyme disease. I named my tick Tillie, anything you feed for 3 months is a pet and needs a name. She is on my desk in a jar and I give her water every other day.  I'm on antibiotics and am still working in my shop everyday and still helping my Dad do his stuff. I am very sick.

   Hi,
         Sorry to hear about the tick bite.  Lyme and all it's co infections are no joke.  It put me on crutches for two years, lost 60lbs and half my mobility in the rest of  my body.   Took me years for a diagnosis and to get on correct treatments that work. I'll probably never be 100% again.  You should send that tick to a lab that can test it, then you'll know exactly what you have.  Lyme and numerous other co infections no one ever hears about might need different anti biotics than what works on Lyme.  Wish I had saved the tick that was in me, didn't know you could have them tested at the time.  Testing the tick is much more accurate and reliable than trying to find out exactly what is in you.  

The University of Massachusetts in Amherst provides this service.  Please use it or one similar.  It could potentially save you years and years of agony.  Here's their link.
https://www.tickreport.com/

Good luck with everything,
Matt

 

[AltTransBikes]

Some people are like sheep who are most comfortable in the herd..........

But for some of us it is a horrible way to live, we must think and act for ourselves. We don't worship the safety money brings us because we see it as selling ourselves into slavery and de-humanizing.

Bob, I wonder if you realize what you are saying here, the duality of 'this' and the 'other' you are creating? You dehumanize people as being sheep and then complain about being dehumanized. Calling other human beings sheep is just a defense mechanism, trying to separate oneself from the rest of humanity, from human behavior you dislike seeing in yourself, to separate from the herd as it were. The dualistic counterpart to being a sheep is being a wolf so in essence you are saying you are a wolf. I hope you see how laughable this is. All you've accomplished with this mindset is set yourself up as a "lone sheep".

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

[Queen]

I've known several people work until they are forced to retire, only to die within weeks of retiring. I won't be one of those.

Fantastic post, Gadget, all of it!  

This part I just had to share a comment, had an old (literally) co-worker who had worked at the library for 62 years!!!  She was in her 80's and planned to work until she died, she never married, lives with her sister, and just thinks work is what you're supposed to do.  Any work after 36.5 years is working for free because her state pension would be equal to her salary, but she still works.

Her situation just made me sad and angry, she has no life, does not enjoy her work but feels compelled to do it, and she holds a slot that could be filled by someone who really needs a job.  The only plus is at the yearly staff dinner, she is courted and lauded for her longevity... this seems to sustain her. She, to me, is everything wrong with our culture.

 

[Van Lady]

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

God

Do we have the right to judge other adults choices? (I am not speaking of criminal acts)

Do we all grow at the same pace?

Is "happiness" the same for all?

Can we really know whether someone else is content?

Is someone not being true to themselves if they put someone else's needs before their own?

Just wondering.......


Van_Lady

 

[gcal]

Fantastic post, Gadget, all of it!  

This part I just had to share a comment, had an old (literally) co-worker who had worked at the library for 62 years!!!  She was in her 80's and planned to work until she died, she never married, lives with her sister, and just thinks work is what you're supposed to do.  Any work after 36.5 years is working for free because her state pension would be equal to her salary, but she still works.

Her situation just made me sad and angry, she has no life, does not enjoy her work but feels compelled to do it, and she holds a slot that could be filled by someone who really needs a job.  The only plus is at the yearly staff dinner, she is courted and lauded for her longevity... this seems to sustain her. She, to me, is everything wrong with our culture.

I would have worked until I died at my desk because I loved my job and my co-workers. Unfortunately, DH felt differently about his.

 

[gcal]

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

God

Do we have the right to judge other adults choices? (I am not speaking of criminal acts)

Do we all grow at the same pace?

Is "happiness" the same for all?

Can we really know whether someone else is content?

Is someone not being true to themselves if they put someone else's needs before their own?

Just wondering.......


Van_Lady

That is tricky. When people ask for advise, it us hard to give it without making judgementa.

 

[Gadget728]

If we're going to talk about sheep, we should include Wolves! This old story seems to describe this thread -

One evening an old Cherokee Indian told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, ‘My son, the battle is between two ‘wolves’ inside us all.One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.’

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: ‘Which wolf wins?’

The old Cherokee simply replied, ‘The one you feed.’

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I simply encourage everyone to find something they love to do for work and then work isn't so bad. Of course every day isn't good, but everyday isn't good no matter what you're doing. Some of my best friends and happiest moments were spent at work or after work with colleagues. Two of my old bosses are tremendous role models in my life even though I haven't worked for one in 10 years and the other in 6. They both treat me like a son and i'm forever grateful for all they've done and continue to do for me. So work doesn't have to be an all negative experience.

I don't think Bob meant to disparage anyone's choices, I think he meant to encourage others not happy in their situation. I can't picture him telling anyone that works and is happy doing it, that they are in the wrong. He's found what works for him and that should be everyone's goal. Don't worry about what others are doing and do what's right for you. We all get a short ride on earth, figure out what makes you happy and go for it. There's no right or wrong way to live life and only you can decide which is right or wrong for you.

 

[ACagedTraveller]

One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.’

The old Cherokee simply replied, ‘The one you feed.’

A potential interpretation of the story as it applies in our society includes the fact that the corporations, and the government itself, often promotes the lies, envy, anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, and inferiority among the population through the continual input of media and social conditioning. The positive qualities, I believe, can flourish with the removal of many negative influences from the life of a person. The evil "wolf," as the story names the concept, will never disappear, but the evil "wolf" need not dominate the current social sphere.