? for those experienced with dog training
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DrJean
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I realize it isn't a new thread... but for others who come along like me and read these 
...
there is a "new" type of collar called the Martingale [img=96x91]http://petus.imageg.net/PETNA_36/pimg/pPETNA-5164566_main_t50.jpg[/img] you can't see it in the pic doh but it has a loop at the front. You adjust/tighten the "pulled" collar just to touch behind the ears... and release it. It hangs gently around the dog's neck until you pull on it and then it tightens just "to" the size of his neck, as you adjusted it to be. It keeps them from getting out of their collars in emergency situations, and gives you full control as well.
On the other, yeah once I had a puppy who kept biting...until I did what you aren't supposed to do, I firmly nicely bit his paw. He never bit again. With that said...regarding alpha dog-- you can "hump" your dog. Not literally, well... yeah in a way... you crouch down over the dog putting body next to body and perhaps with dog on the floor/ground, and that sends the alpha dog signal. This is how they do it in wild...except I don't think they wear clothes...
...there is a "new" type of collar called the Martingale [img=96x91]http://petus.imageg.net/PETNA_36/pimg/pPETNA-5164566_main_t50.jpg[/img] you can't see it in the pic doh but it has a loop at the front. You adjust/tighten the "pulled" collar just to touch behind the ears... and release it. It hangs gently around the dog's neck until you pull on it and then it tightens just "to" the size of his neck, as you adjusted it to be. It keeps them from getting out of their collars in emergency situations, and gives you full control as well.
On the other, yeah once I had a puppy who kept biting...until I did what you aren't supposed to do, I firmly nicely bit his paw. He never bit again. With that said...regarding alpha dog-- you can "hump" your dog. Not literally, well... yeah in a way... you crouch down over the dog putting body next to body and perhaps with dog on the floor/ground, and that sends the alpha dog signal. This is how they do it in wild...except I don't think they wear clothes...
Wabbit
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Great thread lots of good info.
Instead of using your mouth\teeth on the neck of the dog, is it just as good to put the dog on his back and(I hate to say this...) use a hand to "chomp" his throat and hold him down? I don't choke the dog, but I do firmly hold it on its back with my hand around its throat until(most times) it stops struggling. Advice? Thanks.
Instead of using your mouth\teeth on the neck of the dog, is it just as good to put the dog on his back and(I hate to say this...) use a hand to "chomp" his throat and hold him down? I don't choke the dog, but I do firmly hold it on its back with my hand around its throat until(most times) it stops struggling. Advice? Thanks.
Every Road Leads Home
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I don't think there is any need to bite, choke or "hump" a dog to show you're the alpha male. Consistency and a short amount of time and the dog will know you're the alpha.
DrJean
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Sure thing. Those are for times when it's emergency, but you're right because good prior training is key: YOU don't let the dog run ahead of you on leash but keep it at your left side; don't let the dog enter through the door ahead of you; don't bend down to greet the dog first thing you're in the house (that's what subservients do) things like that, you're correct.
DrJean
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HAHAHA that looked rather bad imo... you don't actually hump the dog! Just roll over or lean on him from above and talk to him/her ...to give the message that YOU are the alpha dog.
All animals, especially dogs, tend to try the waters about control now and then... you'll notice the signs if you look for them, and can nip incidents in the bud.
I'm against choke chains, pinch collars and muzzles. Try a halti if you need to pull his mouth shut at times. I'm all for rewards but you might need at trainer to teach YOU have to use them, how to be consistent. (Yeah Milan is controversial at times, but he is right about "presence" and the animal feeding off your vibes.) The good thing is, once you learn how to do this with your dog, you'll be able to handle energy-sucking people too! hahahah
All animals, especially dogs, tend to try the waters about control now and then... you'll notice the signs if you look for them, and can nip incidents in the bud.
I'm against choke chains, pinch collars and muzzles. Try a halti if you need to pull his mouth shut at times. I'm all for rewards but you might need at trainer to teach YOU have to use them, how to be consistent. (Yeah Milan is controversial at times, but he is right about "presence" and the animal feeding off your vibes.) The good thing is, once you learn how to do this with your dog, you'll be able to handle energy-sucking people too! hahahah
Every Road Leads Home said:
In general , I absolutely agree. However, when your dog is busy attacking another dog and is not listening, I stand by my approach of throwing them down and burying my teeth in their fur. as far as biting, with all of the fur around my dogs neck, I'm not REALLY biting him. Extreme circumstances can require an extreme response.
In 7 years, I've done that twice... the last time was at least 5 years ago. Generally, nothing like that is required. My most agressive dog acts sheepish with a stern look nowadays. That's all it takes. I love them, they know it, and they wish to please me. I also don't NEED to exercise much authority. It may sound silly to others, but I look at the 3 of us as a pack. To me, it's more like I'm one of them. But *I* am the Alpha.
To give an example, I take them with me everywhere, just about. When I park the car, I leave all of the windows open. They do not jump out. That's their home territory.
Other people are amazed... I am too, occasionally.
Regards,
Pat
GotSmart said:
Believe me, GotSmart.... if you meet my doggies, you will see they don't fear me...
... but they do know when I mean business. I just don't need to enforce discipline. If anything, I spoil them. And since one of them is deaf, hand commands are all I need.
rvpopeye
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It's not about fear. The best part IMO is they don't need to be aggressive because protecting the pack is something they look to you to do. Much happier dogs overall. Plus they will do anything to make you happy (like being trained).
GotSmart
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pnolans said:Believe me, GotSmart.... if you meet my doggies, you will see they don't fear me...
You got it. Some do not understand that respect / love will work better than fear.
I had a Samoyed once. That dog would argue with me when I would tell him to go into the kennel. He would go, but complaining. He was almost human. If I used my command voice. he would go quietly, but always wanted to be told "good boy"
TrainChaser
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"... when your dog is busy attacking another dog and is not listening, I stand by my approach of throwing them down and burying my teeth in their fur."
Now THAT got a big grin! I've seen and been in dog fights, and when an owner grabs his dog by the neck or collar, he usually gets bitten! And if an owner tries to throw him down and bury his teeth in his neck, the other dog is going to be going for HIS neck! That's the difference between theory and fact.
Now THAT got a big grin! I've seen and been in dog fights, and when an owner grabs his dog by the neck or collar, he usually gets bitten! And if an owner tries to throw him down and bury his teeth in his neck, the other dog is going to be going for HIS neck! That's the difference between theory and fact.
GotSmart said:
You got it. Some do not understand that respect / love will work better than fear.
I had a Samoyed once. That dog would argue with me when I would tell him to go into the kennel. He would go, but complaining. He was almost human. If I used my command voice. he would go quietly, but always wanted to be told "good boy"
Where I live , a dog can go to "jail" for attacking another dog...and possibly be "executed" ... that calls for extreme measures to avoid that. I've buried my teeth in my male dog twice, the last time was 5 years ago.
I DO agree that using only negative discipline is to be avoided , because it DOES have a negative impact. I love my dogs, so do not want that. Love and kindness work far better , IMO.
TrainChaser
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"I've buried my teeth in my male dog twice, the last time was 5 years ago."
I'm curious -- what was the other dog doing at the time?
I'm curious -- what was the other dog doing at the time?
TrainChaser said:
My other dog, or the one being attacked?
My other dog, Lacy was acting confused. The dog being attacked was not at all concerned. But my dog, Taz, was totally out of control. I kept pulling back on his leash, I kept yelling "No", and he ignored me.... So, I grabbed him, threw him down onto his back, and made him submit. In case you're wondering, Taz is a medium size dog, about 50 pounds, we were on a dirt track with lots of weeds. Luckily, the other dog was being held by a friend of mine. So, she was sympathetic to what dummies our dogs can be at times.
I had just gone to court to testify for a friend's dog , a black Lab, who was accused of attacking a Jack Russell. The charges were ludicrous, but my friend's Lab was "held" by the local animal control dept for "observation" for 10 days.
I take that s*t seriously...
TrainChaser
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Oh. I don't think I've ever seen a dog fight where either dog's owner had them under control. If the aggressive dog was pulled away, the victim attacked.
The only way I've seen (or participated) of breaking up a fight that actually works was when both owners grabbed their own dog by both of their hocks (like wheelbarrows) and started walking backwards. If the dogs tried to bite their owners, the owners pulled them backwards in a S pattern, first left, then right, then left, etc. ~~~~~ And then separated them visually with a barrier. Owners that grabbed their dogs by their collars or scruffs usually got bitten; for some strange reason, it always came as a surprise.
The only way I've seen (or participated) of breaking up a fight that actually works was when both owners grabbed their own dog by both of their hocks (like wheelbarrows) and started walking backwards. If the dogs tried to bite their owners, the owners pulled them backwards in a S pattern, first left, then right, then left, etc. ~~~~~ And then separated them visually with a barrier. Owners that grabbed their dogs by their collars or scruffs usually got bitten; for some strange reason, it always came as a surprise.
Didn't happen that way in this case. My friend took hold of her dog, I grabbed mine and threw him down.
What's interesting, is that these two dogs had played before when they were both off of the leash. BTW, both of them have such thick fur, there was no skin penetration.
When I buried my teeth in my dogs fur, I of course was not trying to rip his throat out....
IMO, a perfect example of "leash aggression"...
Thanks for the alternate approach... under the circumstances, I didn't stop to consider other approaches. I went for what I knew works.
Even if my dog tried to bite me... I'd rather he do that, than have to go to "doggie jail" and me to court to bail him out.
Hindsight is 20-20, you know.
What's interesting, is that these two dogs had played before when they were both off of the leash. BTW, both of them have such thick fur, there was no skin penetration.
When I buried my teeth in my dogs fur, I of course was not trying to rip his throat out....
IMO, a perfect example of "leash aggression"...
Thanks for the alternate approach... under the circumstances, I didn't stop to consider other approaches. I went for what I knew works.
Even if my dog tried to bite me... I'd rather he do that, than have to go to "doggie jail" and me to court to bail him out.
Hindsight is 20-20, you know.
ArtW
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Buddy definitely sees me as pack leader
If me and him are in a car and a stranger approaches, he's fine
If it was him and Jeanne, he would go full on 'warning mode' that is barking, growling, and generally warning the stranger that intrusion in the car would end badly
never once did he exit the car
Also, body language matters. w\When buddy comes to greet me, I stand and let him start lciking my hands, then bend down enough he can lick the bottom of my 'muzzle' (chin)
He will jump up, but mostly to wrap his forelegs around my waist, a 'paw hug' while he lays his head against my side
he's also seen me go after someone on his behalf, so there's that
If me and him are in a car and a stranger approaches, he's fine
If it was him and Jeanne, he would go full on 'warning mode' that is barking, growling, and generally warning the stranger that intrusion in the car would end badly
never once did he exit the car
Also, body language matters. w\When buddy comes to greet me, I stand and let him start lciking my hands, then bend down enough he can lick the bottom of my 'muzzle' (chin)
He will jump up, but mostly to wrap his forelegs around my waist, a 'paw hug' while he lays his head against my side
he's also seen me go after someone on his behalf, so there's that
ArtW
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Hahahahaha
