DIFFERENCES OF OPINION....

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Morning all!

After checking my e-mail, I had a notification that a few people had posted on the 'preparing for winter' thread.

Bob, you said to start a new thread if we wished to say something about your disagreement with Off Grid 24/7, and I do.

I've learned so much from all the folks here, yourself included, and oftentimes the information offered has been contradictory, but we're all grownups here, Bob, and if we don't want to take someone's advice then we won't - simple.

It saddens me to see anyone silenced in a country where freedom of expression is supposedly guaranteed. I think we all know that it's not anymore, but I thought the people here valued freedom above all else (The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit notwithstanding).

Surely we're all mature enough to agree to disagree and leave each other to heed the advice which makes sense to them.

I don't think you're 'horrible,' Bob, but I do think you're overreacting in this situation.

FWIW,


Jesse.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Well, I have to disagree with you.

This is not a place where first amendment rights apply.  This is BOB'S space, he pays good money to run it, (Thank You, Bob!) and he runs it for a specific purpose - to help people who end up having to live in their vehicles for economic reasons, and people who have a psychological need to seek freedom and happiness through travel and new experiences.

If Bob thinks somebody is posting "information" that is patent nonsense and might cause inexperienced newbies to make bad choices, he has every right to remove it and issue a cease and desist order.

Finally, I had to keep wondering why Off Grid 24/7 kept posting it over and over and over again.  At some point, it should have been obvious to him that he wasn't changing anybody's minds.  But he just had to keep flogging that dead horse.  It was becoming annoying to a lot of us here, not just Bob.

Regards
John

 

[Gary68]

bobs forum,he can do what he wants,just like i dont have to come here

they both have valid points,just have to remember that what works in alaska or arizona will not necessarily work in the oregon coast range or northern florida,different strokes for different folks

 

[ccbreder]

As this site is opened to the public, as is a lunch counter, do differing rules apply than if it were a home with friends visiting?

 

[Almost There]

As this site is opened to the public, as is a lunch counter, do differing rules apply than if it were a home with friends visiting?

The owner of the lunch counter still reserves the right to refuse service to those who don't abide by the house rules.

 

[ccbreder]

It all depends on what is the house rule. Bob gets feisty if you disagree with him.

 

[mockturtle]

I have noted that Bob has a very low tolerance for thinking that differs from his. That said, it's his sandbox and we get to play in it only as long as he lets us. And I'm glad for the sandbox.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Forums like this take on a life of their own, those that come to it feel ownership, they don't exist without participation. Based on my experience on other sites, they get real boring when different opinions get banned, when everyone agrees.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Forums like this take on a life of their own, those that come to it feel ownership, they don't exist without participation. Based on my experience on other sites, they get real boring when different opinions get banned, when everyone agrees.

There's having differing opinions, and then there's being a minority of one who insists on arguing with EVERYONE else until the cows come home.  How do other sites deal with the later?

Regards
John

 

[flying kurbmaster]

There's having differing opinions, and then there's being a minority of one who insists on arguing with EVERYONE else until the cows come home.  How do other sites deal with the later?

Regards
John

They often shut them up either by banning them or like what has happened here to Off Grid, he is in moderation, He can either change his opinion or he is silenced, he has no power, the relationships that he has built up over time  are vaporized, unless he conforms, I am not sure that is right... if he were abusive or offensive, maybe, but he hasn't really been any of those he has an opinion and lets others know, Bob is usually tolerant of others, I admire him for this,  it seems this time he feels that Off Grid is hurting someone by repeating this but I have to agree with Jesse that we are all adults here and you can always add insulation if that doesn't work out for you, no harm done.

 

[LeeRevell]

Simple fix for regular members.....
when the offender will not listen to reason and keeps beating that dead horse to bloody rags, consign him to your "ignore list".  That's what it is there for.  Keeps the blood pressure down and temper cool.

 

[AltTransBikes]

Based on my experience on other sites, they get real boring when different opinions get banned, when everyone agrees.

Yup, better when a forum doesn't just become a host of sycophants all agreeing with each other.

They often shut them up either by banning them or like what has happened here to Off Grid, he is in moderation, He can either change his opinion or he is silenced, he has no power, the relationships that he has built up over time  are vaporized, unless he conforms, I am not sure that is right... if he were abusive or offensive, maybe, but he hasn't really been any of those he has an opinion and lets others know, Bob is usually tolerant of others, I admire him for this,  it seems this time he feels that Off Grid is hurting someone by repeating this but I have to agree with Jesse that we are all adults here and you can always add insulation if that doesn't work out for you, no harm done.

Again, well said. The guy has his own mind on topics, and IMO hard won from experience on the road. I say good for him, let me pick and choose what might be right from that for me.

Also don't think OG 24/7 was a minority of one on many topics. I agreed with what he had to say on numerous occasions. Also found him to be courteous and  though I don't recall ever pinging him thanks or reputation points it's obvious some folks did. Just looked and he has 320 thanks and 13 rep points so someone found his posts useful.

 

[highdesertranger]

you know what I agreed with him on some things and gave him thanks a couple of times. he doesn't need to change his opinion, Bob just said he couldn't post on insulation anymore. if I agree or disagree really doesn't matter, this is Bobs site he can do what he wants. I do know some of his post on insulation was just flat out not true. the same with that 12v AC pic he keeps posting, I pointed out some faults with the drawing and he just kept posting the same picture. I even took the time to copy the pic and drew on it where the problems where and an easy fix. but he just keeps posting the same pic. if one was to build according to the pic you would have a mess. I personally hopes he hangs around and keeps posting. there is give and take in life. I got in trouble a couple of times when I first joined but guess what I am still here. I just stay away from stuff that gets me in trouble, well most of the time. highdesertranger

 

[masterplumber]

I kind of saw this coming, and reached out to Bob to encourage him as I think he has done a great job trying to help people along the way. If you look many of those thanks mentioned for Off Grid are actually from Bob. I think he has gone over and above trying to reconcile without caving on important issues. Somewhere along the way there was a change in tone, and it became not just a disagreement about insulation, but more of a - You're wrong and evil if you waste your money insulating. As many of you have posted we're all adults here and can make our own decisions. But there are also a lot of people coming here that really are starting from ground zero when it comes to knowledge of what works and what doesn't. Some of those posts would actually lead them to maybe build something that was uncomfortable, or worse, unworkable. For many that would discourage them to the point of giving up on what could have been the absolute best option for their living situation, some never to return. It's truly unfortunate that it had to come to this, but it's not like there wasn't any warning. Beside this one I get on very few forums anymore, precisely because the moderators don't ever call anybody out for bad behavior - all the flaming etc... is just too discouraging so I applaud Bob for taking a stand.

 

[SternWake]

I use Ccleaner everytime I close my browser, and only log on when I feel the need to reply or start a post, so the ignore feature is not always there.


I tend to manually ignore certain posters. 

Often on forums, I start reading a post, then sense the irritating and smug attitude, then scroll to the left, confirm my suspicions of who wrote it, and then just  scroll down to the next post. Usually it is a Smug, condescending  self important attitude which seriously stokes the fires of my considerable misanthropy. I don't need that, I've got a surplus of anger already.  Narcissism and  inconsideration are deal breakers for me.

Facts are facts, opinions are opinions, and if one presents their opinions as facts, I try to just ignore, but I also can't just let incorrect/inaccurate, or incomplete information go unchallenged.  If this were my forum, many more post would be deleted, never to see the light of day. 

Some people revel in their indignation, and seek reasons to be indignant.  I do my best to ignore them too, online and in person. Some of course are seeking confrontation, or looking just to screw with someone, to be a troll, as it amuses them.  Some people just enjoy being a douchebag.  Better to bypass douchebags, in my opinion.

 It is not my job to keep strangers happy.  I try to be considerate, but I have no patience for self important fools or hypersensitive ultra PC hypocrites either.

I will respect my elders, if they are worthy of respect.  Those who demand respect or imply they are correct in any subject, simply because they are older, will be ignored.

I do wonder if some people even know how their posts come across to the reader, as I do wonder how my own posts come across as well.
  One cannot hear the tone in which words were written, one infers it, and one can certainly infer incorrectly if there is any wiggle room for interpretation.

I also quit reading poorly written posts, or those with lots of  bad spelling or grammar.  Just like reading a product review, if the reviewer cannot make a cogent sentence, it is not worthy of reading or putting any weight to their review.

And when reading a book, a long paragraph is no problem, But one long paragraph on an internet post, with no spacing, is unreadable.

I will usually jump in on most any electrical thread.  One poster wrote one long paragraph and I found it unreadable, and did not respond.  they PM'd me to ask for me to contribute to the thread, but I could not get past the second sentence of the original post, and never responded to either.  Sorry.

I think a personal digital Detox is in order.  I only just opened that 'prepping for winter' thread because of this thread, and got seriously irritated.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

. . . and you can always add insulation if that doesn't work out for you, no harm done.

Respectfully, not everyone throws a piece of plywood over a couple of milk crates, spreads a sleeping bag over it, and calls it done.  There have been some awesome, awesome builds documented here, nicely fitted and finished wooden walls, built in cabinets, etc.  I don't see how anyone can categorize having to rip all that out and rebuild in order to put insulation in after the fact as "no harm done".

Regards
John

 

[LeeRevell]

Facts are facts, opinions are opinions, and if one presents their opinions as facts, I try to just ignore, but I also can't just let incorrect/inaccurate, or incomplete information go unchallenged.  If this were my forum, many more post would be deleted, never to see the light of day. 

Some people revel in their indignation, and seek reasons to be indignant.  I do my best to ignore them too, online and in person. Some of course are seeking confrontation, or looking just to screw with someone, to be a troll, as it amuses them.  Some people just enjoy being a douchebag.  Better to bypass douchebags, in my opinion.

 It is not my job to keep strangers happy.  I try to be considerate, but I have no patience for self important fools or hypersensitive ultra PC hypocrites either.

  One cannot hear the tone in which words were written, one infers it, and one can certainly infer incorrectly if there is any wiggle room for interpretation.

I also quit reading poorly written posts, or those with lots of  bad spelling or grammar.  Just like reading a product review, if the reviewer cannot make a cogent sentence, it is not worthy of reading or putting any weight to their review.

And when reading a book, a long paragraph is no problem, But one long paragraph on an internet post, with no spacing, is unreadable.

Best be careful, SW.  When I made exactly these personal opinions and actions known, I was stomped on by The Management and others.  I do not consider myself a "grammar Nazi" as I have been labeled, but I do insist on people using the basic Rules of Written English they were taught (not to say 'learned') in third grade English class.  It is not Rocket Science.
I still follow MY instinct and do my best to "Avoid the Noid".  Whatever info an illiterate writer may think they have, there are other places to find that info.  Places that do not give me a raging headache attempting to decipher and translate into understandable English.  I guess I am just too cantankerous an old curmudgeon to waste my time on that.
Opinions are like that oft-mentioned part of the anatomy - we ALL have them.  We discuss issues based upon our own opinions on them, tempered (hopefully) with first hand experiences and knowledge.  I enjoy a good discussion, and am always willing to learn a Better Way.  But some folks do put forth not-well-considered opinion as fact.  I guess that is a part of the Human Condition.

 

[Seeker]

I know it is hard to read some post because of the writing.  Please try to not give up on your advice though.
 
I try to make my post readable but my english and punctuation are abominable.  In third grade 90% of my time was spent looking out the window daydreaming and wanting to be outside.  I did like recess.

This forum has helped me greatly.  I am good at research and like all opinions about whatever subject discussed.  I then decide what info I will trust to believe.

Again Thanks for every ones help
A SEEKER

 

[Gary68]

off topic but i'm going there because i'm dyslexic and put more effort in to a sentence if thats what you want to call it them most do for paragraph so to those who are not smart enough to decipher a few spelling errors and such and pass us off as dumb or whatever you will have pass on these people too

http://www.dyslexia.com/famous.htm

 

[ilovemyvan]

Hum...since English is a second language to me, I never attended these 3rd grade classes. Does that make me stupid because my grammar is not perfect? I don't think so. Most people here are very good and respectful of others. I like this forum a whole lot and if sometimes there is a little bit of sparring going on...oh well, it's still the best forum I know.

Cheers

Nicole