"It's time to cancel campfires"

[crofter]

I have never actually heard of a non smoking campground, but I can see the point when it is tinder dry the ember from any source can start a fire.

I also did not know that sawing wood causes sparks, but chainsaw use is  stopped during a fire ban as well.
-crofter

 

[highdesertranger]

It's the burn ban that regulates cigarette smoking. You don't have to be in a campground, the rules are Forest Service and BLM land wide not just in a campground. It has been this way for years, nothing new.

You all really need to read the rules it's obvious many of you don't. Also besides the the FS/BLM rules there are state, county, fire district and city rules that are on top of the FS/BLM.

Please observe all burn ban rules.

Highdesertranger

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

And they are getting much more serious about burn bans.  It used to be a $300 fine; it is now up to $5000 and possible jail time.  Too many acres, lives, homes lost.  About 85% of forest fires are human caused.

 

[[email protected]]

Here's an excerpt from an article in Outside magazine about why we should give up campfires.

A week later, the Washington State Department of Natural Resources closed all of its public land in the eastern part of the state. By mid-July, 900 fires had burned 140,000 acres across Washington, and the DNR, which is a firefighting agency in addition to a land manager, was spread thin. It couldn’t manage current burns and have rangers on the ground policing every single illegal campfire. People on public land hadn’t proven themselves able to play by the rules.

As the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report made clear this week, we’re going to need to give up some of the things we love if we don’t want much more taken away.

If we can’t collectively change behavior for the greater good, we’re screwed. I love sitting around a campfire, telling stories and poking flames, but going without a fire isn’t such a huge sacrifice. Giving up a whole season of outdoor access, on the other hand, feels like a huge loss. And this summer could be as good as it gets for the rest of our lives.

It’s not just fire-prone eastern Washington that’s losing out. Montana enacted regulations prohibiting fishing after midafternoon, because fish are stressed and frying in the heat. Phoenix is closing trails because temperatures are too dangerous for search and rescue to go out and help struggling hikers. Toxic algae is spreading across too warm lakes, and my new nephew is breathing West Coast wildfire smoke all the way over in western Massachusetts.

I am angry and frustrated and grieving. I feel ineffective and hamstrung. Pissed at the government, at the gas companies, at the bros throwing beanbags by a fire three campsites over.

But this summer, I’ve been thinking a lot about how individual actions can have broad public-health impacts, and how part of freedom is accountability and trying to act on behalf of a greater good. We get to choose if we want to sit by a campfire now or be able to sit by smoke-free rivers in future summers. The window of action is shrinking fast."


https://www.outsideonline.com/outdo...ookpost&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

They have wax in tins for a fire now. And also smokeless fire containers. And the price of firewood is outrageous.

 

[Marcos989A]

Firewood not required. Google Jeep catches fire. Not specific to a Jeep btw....anytime you park a hot vehicle over dry vegetation you should be aware you may ignite a fire. Fire extinguishers should be handy, perhaps even a fire blanket.
Personally, if you cause a fire you should be held accountable, period.
You chose to go out there, you have a duty to protect.
Failure to plan is planning to fail.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I can go both ways on this.
For one, anthropogenic climate change is real.
Only scientists saying it isn't are working for fossil fuel companies.
We can point out that the biggest polluters are the government and industry, not private citizens. And that is true.
But it's kind of silly to recognize a problem and just do nothing about it. At least that is not how I was raised.

OTOH I have done a lot of camping over the years.
A lot of that camping was what my friends and I jokingly referred to as advanced homelessness.
Like we were the refined high tech version.
(we were silly)
Lots of the time I was tight on finances so we go good at scrounging up wood and building fires. Me being a former scout I always had a large container of water nearby, and made sure our fire was doused when we hit the sack. Of course not everybody was a scout growing up. Or had uncles that took them back country camping. Lots of people are ********* when it comes to campfires.
I've seen people almost get blown up because they were dumping gas, directly from a red plastic gas can, directly onto a fire.
Also seen a guy roll over onto a fire and get his sleeping bag lit up. He was scarred for life.

Is it a good idea to limit fires? I think so, though of course it shouldn't apply to me!
When I lived in CA they had fire restrictions for about the last 5 years I was there.
It didn't really cramp my style that much.
It's easier to cook over a propane stove than a campfire. (though I love campfire corn!)
Not as many safety issues with propane, MAP or white fuel.
I do like the way a campfire helps to keep the bugs away.
Also, campfires help to dissuade forest mammals from visiting your site.
This isn't as much of deal when camping as a group. Even just 2 people will yack and make noise enough to scare away most critters.
But camping alone, as I often do, I may go days without saying anything out loud. So I like that a fire keeps my perimeter a bit wider.

 

[RoamerRV428]

it isn't simple but of course thru human envolvement it becomes reality.

life on this planet has burned millions of acres thru lightening and more natural life. Normal. Not a doubt about that.

life on this planet has started fires not thru nature and gazillions of acres burned thru 'us'

burn ban, sure. no fires. yes cause no human will do it right for what nature is waiting to spark.

is it right? no clue in the end, too big of a vary of debate on it all and for me personally, I DESPISE camp smoke fires so.....I say get rid of them all and ban LOL but that is a massively personal view from me
All opinions are gonna vary here!

 

[DannyB1954]

On the aspect of pollution, I read that wood decomposing in a forest or landfill puts out as much carbon footprint as it does burning. It just takes more time. If it were not being burned, there would be a greater quantity rotting so not as much difference as it may seem.
When camped alone I never have a campfire. It is more trouble than it is worth to me. Starting the fire is less trouble than putting it out. Letting a fire burn itself out while you go to bed is not really safe. The wind can come up at any time and scatter embers everywhere.

 

[RonDean]

We (humans) like our campfires. Probably harkens back to when a campfire scared the nasty beasts away. And, even today, with the drought and warming we have, it is possible to have a safe campfire. The problem is that too many people don't seem to have their fair share of common sense and fires get out of control. And because they don't we lose many large swaths of forest every year. And homes and lives as well. I like to think I am one of those that have it all figured out - but do I? Those folks starting fires think they do too. In my mind, unnecessary fires just aren't worth the risk to indulge my atavistic urges. Call me when the western droughts are over and we are edging up to 40 days and nights of rain, and I'll probably change my stance.

 

[BelgianPup]

It's time to cancel pyromaniacs on sight. Any caliber will do. Several of the fires in the last year were caused by pyros.

 

[CoyoteG]

Personally I don’t have camp fires. They stink and all I can smell for several days is smoke.
And they are too much work and worry.

 

[user 22017]

Call me when the western droughts are over and we are edging up to 40 days and nights of rain, and I'll probably change my stance.

Is it safe to have one after it rains? What if we have dry wood in our camper that we can make a fire with after a heavy rain? Then is it ok?

 

[user 16179]

Is it safe to have one after it rains? What if we have dry wood in our camper that we can make a fire with after a heavy rain? Then is it ok?

It's pretty much on what you can live with, nothing's 100%. Except fire bans it is 100% not cool when the agencies in charge of protecting our public lands determine a fire ban is needed.

 

[user 16179]

On the aspect of pollution, I read that wood decomposing in a forest or landfill puts out as much carbon footprint as it does burning. It just takes more time. If it were not being burned, there would be a greater quantity rotting so not as much difference as it may seem.
When camped alone I never have a campfire. It is more trouble than it is worth to me. Starting the fire is less trouble than putting it out. Letting a fire burn itself out while you go to bed is not really safe. The wind can come up at any time and scatter embers everywhere.

Ashes basically run downhill with the rains. Decomposing natural materials protect the ground, provide habitat for beneficial critters and provide nutrients for the living plants.

 

[user 22017]

It's pretty much on what you can live with, nothing's 100%. Except fire bans it is 100% not cool when the agencies in charge of protecting our public lands determine a fire ban is needed.

I would never start a campfire when a ban is in effect. I love campfires, but floating embers always made me nervous. That said, I think I would feel ok about a campfire after a downpour. Not out west, though. Maybe not even in a forest here in the midwest anymore. But with no trees nearby, no brush close to the pit, and after a rain. Then again, how far do those embers float? lol.

 

[Ken in Anaheim]

Anybody remember Yosemite's "Fire Falls"? Began in 1872, outlawed in 1968. From the Glacier Pt. Hotel (3000 feet above the valley floor) they'd push the glowing embers from the nightly bonfire over the shear granite cliff-face every night at 9pm. It created a beautiful waterfall-looking fall of fire........ah....the good ol' days..

 

[user 22017]

Anybody remember Yosemite's "Fire Falls"? Began in 1872, outlawed in 1968. From the Glacier Pt. Hotel (3000 feet above the valley floor) they'd push the glowing embers from the nightly bonfire over the shear granite cliff-face every night at 9pm. It created a beautiful waterfall-looking fall of fire........ah....the good ol' days..

Is that something different from the thing that happens there every year? Also called Firefall? I see, you are referring to the legend

https://www.insidehook.com/article/travel/do-you-know-about-the-waterfall-of-fire-at-yosemite
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...ite-firefall-waterfall-sunset-pictures-nature
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2019/02/20/yosemite-national-park-firefall-orig-vstop-bdk.cnn

 

[RonDean]

I don't know how long ago summers in the west weren't accompanied by smoke and fire. I do know it has been many a year. Too many! So, I have to ask we all do a risk-reward analysis. Maybe YOU didn't start any of those fires, but very often someone has. Yes, I know there's lighting, power lines, etc that also start fires. I've read that nearly 85 percent* of wildland fires in the United States are caused by humans. Some of these fires destroy entire towns and kill people, aside from all the other damage they cause.

If you are somewhere the risk is much less or somewhere fire and smoke haven't consumed every warm month in recent memory, good on you. Go ahead and light your fire. But, I spend most of my time in the US west, and have seen too much of the damage they cause.

Maybe I could understand the urban sticks and bricks folks not "getting it." (well, not really.) But for those of us that are nomads and seek out the free spaces we call boondocks? NO. If anyone should be able to stop and think it through, it should be us. Once the snow melts and the rain stops, I think we need to put our matches away. We will never know what disasters we might be avoiding. But, that's a good thing.

 

[NctryBen]

I think HDR had a good point above... following burn bans is important. It’s usually an illegal campfire that starts a forest fire where they are the cause. And many times not put out all the way...
In northern Minnesota we can also have such bans. That is when you get the idiots that think they know better then the forest service and have them anyways. Like someone said, it’s a few that wreck it for all.

 

[Setback]

I agree on the burn bands, put the matches away. Some adults and children like to toast hot dogs on an open fire, I do, not counting Smores. The best breakfast is the one on an open fire steaks too, coffee. I could go on but I think you get the point. I recommend putting water on it before going to bed just to be on the safe side.