Cummins Canoe (A Stepvan Story)

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Pandemic. Riots. Forest fires. Murder hornets. Economic collapse. Gee willy, things have really hit an all time low. It's worse now than back in 2012 when zombies were out and about and the world was going to end, according to certain calendars. Maybe they were 8 years off.

But that was back when I got a military truck to ride out the apocalypse, which didn't happen, so I was stuck with a really cool expedition vehicle. I have a thread on that mess if ya'll are interested. That's been fun and all, but this pandemic quarantine got me thinking again. Employment hanging like a big unknown, and cost of housing and taxes and such increasing due to the craziness that's happening, maybe it's time to go full-time on the road? Will need something more appropriate. Something to walk around in. Easy to maintain. And won't end up as a giant rust bucket. Why not a step van!

[size=small]Studying step vans in their natural habitat. Getting motivation and ideas.
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[size=small]After months of self debating during quarantine with an unknown future, I settled on the specs in a van I was looking for. Diesel, manual transmission with overdrive, driver and passenger doors, rear barn doors, solid metal roof, and not being too ridiculously long where I can't fit into parking lots and such. So after 22 hours of driving, we ended up with a 1993 P30 Grumman 15' with 4BT Cummins engine and NV4500 transmission. Only thing we didn't get that we wanted was a partition wall/door between the cab and storage area in back. She could also use some 4wd, since this 2wd almost got us permanently stuck in the sellers field where it was parked. We'll add that to the list of minor things to do.[/size]

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[size=small][size=small]The day of purchase.
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Sitting in a field for who knows how long, it was very dirty, had some surface rust on chassis, missing part of the passenger seatbelt, missing an inner fender well, and something was not right with the overdrive gear as it feels like it's just not there like we're in neutral. But it cold started right up and drove well up to almost 60mph. Made the 700 mile drive home on one tank, without overdrive, so that was a huge plus! The possibilities are endless! So many ideas, my mind is racing around in circles, or maybe figure 8's. But before we can get to the cool build stuff, we need to park her, and do a full on cavity search to see exactly what we have and what kind of hole we potentially dug ourselves into. The future is uncertain, and so is this build. After all, this thing was built by the company that made the Apollo Lunar Lander and now makes canoes. Canoes. Cummins powered. Hmmm...


[size=small][size=small]Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the Cummins Canoe![/size][/size]

 

[nature lover]

She doesn’t look as bad as you describe her and if she ran for 700 miles I think you’re going to end up with a good ride. But heck you can buy a new one off the showroom floor and break down on the way home. I just don’t have the back up money and so I get a little anxious about breaking down. But if you have the backup emergency money You’re way ahead of me. I think you can make a nice rig out of that. You can build a bulkhead wall rather inexpensively with not too much weight using aluminum studs and a very thin plywood. I’ll shut up and not tell you what to do I’m sure you know what you want. Good luck with it

 

[highdesertranger]

where's that military truck? highdesertranger

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

She drives, sure. But she needs a lot of loving. We got a step van because they are much easier and cheaper to maintain than a regular van. We sacrificed power and fancy options for simple reliability. Hopefully it was a smart move and won't need the emergency money. Luckily, I can do all the mechanic work myself so that saves a boat load, erm, van load of money. No way I could afford a mechanic to do all the stuff we're about to do to this thing. Breaking down is always in the back of my mind. I try to get it out of my head by being willing to accept breakdowns as "extensions of adventure". But like you say, I think it boils down to the fact that any vehicle can breakdown, no matter how old or new it is. My methodology is just to try and stick to something with good track records and then roll the dice.

But please, throw me some suggestions. The only bad criticism is no criticism. That's how forums work, right? Everyone has been telling me to be mindful of weight. It's a careful balance. Wood studs are heavy. Aluminum studs are expensive. We'll see during the build where we can save weight.

That military truck is my daily driver/work truck. Driving that around while I fix up the van.

 

[bullfrog]

I really like using foam or anything really with TiteBond glue, Harbor Freight drop cloths or any canvas type material with a coat of exterior semi-gloss White House paint for insulated sturdy interior panels. There are videos on using this method to make cabinets as well but I use a split 2”x4” (1 1/2” x 1 1/2”) at the horizontal seams to hold the panels as well as to mount plastic milk crates with a couple wooden dowels to hold the bottom of the crate in place and a twist latch in the handle hole of the crate I can disconnect the crate from the wall easily. Plus crates make seeing what is in them easy. I use them instead of cabinets or shelves. I make my beds 80”x30” so I can use four 20”x30” totes under a piece of 1/2” plywood 80”x30”. Two eye bolts and a ratchet strap hold the totes in place so no bed frame is needed.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Ok, sounds great! I might have to do the totes under the bed idea. Lots of space under there. Be much easier to pull out a tote and go through it than have a long cabinet to dig though that. Plus saving weight on not having more wood for cabinet stuff.

 

[kygreg]

Congradulations and welcome to the step van family!
You might consider leaving the bulkhead wall out, it was the first thing I removed from my Freightliner. When I removed the wall, it effectively turned my 11 footer into a 15 room with lots of natural light. I'll have an insulated curtain for when I need privacy or to keep heat in.

 

[ckelly78z]

I would start out with replacing all fluids/filters everywhere;
-trans oil
-engine oil
-rear diff lube
-radiator coolant
-brake fluid/flush
-p steering fluid
-oil, fuel, air filters

Then I would tackle the rubber;
-check tire date codes (over 7 years replace)
-belts
-hoses
-wipers
-door seals
-vacuum lines

After that, I would look at all replacables;
-brake pads/discs/drums
-coolant thermostat
-water pump
-having injectors cleaned
-exhaust
-brake lines
-battery/electrical connections/grounds
-lighting/wiring

Spending a few more hundred $$ upfront, and getting it completely reliable will save you potential thousands $$ later at a repair shop, not to mention the hassle of a breakdown in a desolate area, or being without a place to stay while in the shop. You can build out the van however you want, but securing it's reliability is paramount to keeping the good times going....have fun !

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

I love the step van family! An odd bunch though, all the better! I think we're leaning towards installing a bulkhead wall with a door and having no windows. The extra r value from full insulation is just too good to pass on as we'll be going to many frozen and hot places. No need for windows. If we do want more light, just pop the bulkhead door open. We'll also install a couple roof vents.

Yes, we'll be doing a full maintenance breakdown. Thanks for the suggestion, I like the way you think! Also good thing this van has no vacuum lines or computers to worry about! Step vans are so easy to work on, I'm kinda looking forward to a good breakdown to fix. We'll see what happens!

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

The drive back was grueling without overdrive, but we made it work. Took two days to get it back.

Stopped at a hotel parking lot, to, umm, sleep in the back of the van.

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[size=small][size=small]The passenger seat was terrible to ride in. The seatbelt worked if you tied both strapped together as the male part of the clicker thingy was missing.[/size][/size]

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[size=small][size=small][size=small]We went rock climbing while we were in the area picking up the van. The rear area hooks made it very convenient to organize gear![/size][/size][/size]

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[size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small]But in the end, the van made it back, eventually. Now the true horrors can begin![/size][/size][/size][/size]

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[size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small]This van used to be owned by some bakery company. Bread slice + bread = bucket of chicken![/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

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[size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small]Just look at the clean slate! So many options to do![/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

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[size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small][size=small]But this thing has been sitting in a field for quite some time. Who knows what we'll uncover in the next few days...[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Mine had sat for six years when I bought it. I replaced all brakes and lines, radiator, batteries, all u joints, fixed lights, replaced wipers, repaired only section of floor that is steel under the steering wheel. I. I moved in the day I bought it in 2009 and started to build out With my camp stove on the doghouse and a jug of water next to it along with piece of plywood propped on a wheel well and a stump of wood holding the other corner as my bed.I never framed the walls, I glued foam board insulation to the alluminium, then glued 5mm ply to that, I built the cupboards, bed,etc with 1x3/4 framing, 3 and 5 mm Luan glued and brad nailed. The bed and cupboards are attached to the floor and or ceiling and hold the walls in mechanically. I have a bulkhead to the front with an opening window and sliding door along with opening windows on each side and two in the barn doors, I installed storage lockers in the hollows under the van with doors from the outside. I use the front of the van as my porch and toilet my drivers seat pops forward and my toilet is under it in a box, I installed blinds to all the front windows so I can shut it down to stop heat from getting in and privacy. You have the best possible engine the 4bt, I have a 292 six gasser in mine, it is only a 10 foot box wiTh single wheels. The good thing about these things is parts are easy to access and are reasonably priced. A good place to check out for body parts is Mills supply you can find them on line, good luck.

 

[kygreg]

Just a follow up, not trying to change your mind, it sounds like you really thought it through. A good friend of mine is a mechanical Engineer and he ran the heating loads for my van with just an insulated curtain with tons of air leaks. A 5kw diesel heater can easily keep up with demand, the reason was not so much insulation but small volume. A 6'-4" ceiling makes a huge difference in volume. (I've got 1 1/2" rigid insulation on the ceiling and walls, 3/4" on the floor and pocket door walls)

Even though my van was fleet maintained I'm still going to do all the prevented maintenance that others have suggested. Starting with a clean slate is such a good idea.

These vans are so much fun to work on, straight walls, square corners and made of aluminum. They are also ugly, I don't hesitate to drill holes right through the outside walls for modifications. You can't put enough lipstick on these pigs to make them pretty. Having said that, I am going with a 2-tone retro classic camper paint job.

 

[highdesertranger]

that military truck again. I want it. highdesertranger

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

6 years is a long time to sit! Sounds like you did it right! I don't know how long mine has been sitting in a field. Good thing diesel fuel doesn't expire, it started right up when we threw a battery in it! The 4bt is the only engine I was looking for. I don't want major engine issues on the road. We'll certainly be going through everything. Could likely be a full rebuild. We need to dig into her and see how bad she actually is.

I'm alway open to suggesting. Give me some of them good ideas! Been reading a lot about the 5kw Espar heaters. Boy they sound real nice. I don't like propane. Liquid fuels all the way. I might agree with you on the heater, but I don't agree with you about step vans being ugly. They're beautiful! Nice clean lines, rivets, I feel like Howard Hughes when I run my hands down the side of the van! A paint job is definitely on the list.

Haha, yes, I drive a military truck. It's a 1986 M1031 CUCV Mobile Field Maintenance Assault Vehicle. It's got an onboard generator and lots of tools. It makes me money so I can build a house out of an old step van. It is not for sale, will be driving it to the ground.

 

[grummy]

>>>> I don't hesitate to drill holes right through the outside walls for modifications.

Oh Please dont....  If that Van body is worth something to you, then why destroy it for when you move on to the next fad/project ?

It is a TON of work restoring an aluminum body and a hundred times more aggravating than steel, especially knowing that it did not have to be done.

A step I bought once was one I was really dreaming of having. After I gutted it, I counted over 260 holes pounded needlessly thru the outer walls. No way I was going to Tig that many up... 5/16 and 3/8 holes. Sheeez.... I ended up scrapping it.

One does not have any reason to pound thru the side walls, in fact, it is a BAD idea. Thermal Transfer... Frost and moisture wicking into the project is not good.

You can simply bond/glue vertical oak boards to each upright aluminum stud with stainless hardware, then run pine horizontally attached to the oak. And, it gives you no chance of thermal transfer like you will get drilling through to the outside. Ceiling is similar.

I built the "Grumliner".. https://www.google.com/search?q=gru...UG-6wKHdEzBxQQ_AUoA3oECAYQBQ&biw=1252&bih=543

I don't think it was "Ugly"... I think it was awesome !

It was my 6th step van. I no longer have it, and I sure miss it, but have built a cargo trailer for now. Still always looking for a '80's 12' low top that someone didn't pepper full of holes... Getting harder and harder every day. Probably will never find it.

 

[grummy]

I just happened to think that all the final Grumliner pics are no longer currently on the interwebs. Looks like Tumblr dumped what I had there. I suppose I'll have to do something about that !

 

[kygreg]

Oh Please dont....  If that Van body is worth something to you, then why destroy it for when you move on to the next fad/project ?
 

I just see it a different way. This van is my full-time boondocking retirement home that if all goes well they will find me dead in at age 95. It's not some kind of classic, it already has hundreds of rivet and bolt heads exposed on the outside, what's a few more, they will get painted over and no one will notice. For me, this is a great advantage over a cargo van where exposed bolt heads would stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Grumliner is a cool build! a little too much chrome for my tastes, but everyone has their thing. Very detailed read, thanks!

Make as many holes as you want, as long as they aren't done needlessly. Think hard about the holes before you make them, make tactical decisions. It's yours, do it. I'm a hoarder though, I never sell my vehicles. I keep them until they die. So this step van will be with me for a very long time. Same mentality I have with women. Hang on to the good ones, make the long term investment. Ladies, that guy who never gets rid of that old falling apart car and loves and cares for it way more than reason would do, go date that guy, he might treat you the same. Stay away from the guy who leases cars, haha.

 

[highdesertranger]

I would put a U-Haul box on that military truck and build my home there. highdesertranger

 

[tradesman]

Has anyone added an additional seat to their stepvan? How easy would it be to also replace the folding passenger seat with something a bit more...comfortable? I need to seat three people.