Class A RV makes no $$ sense

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Yea, not sure how he stuffed 3 air conditioners in that rig, one should suffice.  GPS is a handy tool though.

You guys minimalized more than most would on their motor homes.  If you don't use the furnace then that's fine, not many would remove it though.  You are correct that the average cost per year isn't that high, just for him it's an additional expense over his S&B home, which is hard to swallow sometimes.  If it's all you have then no, it's not excessive.  

My last house had a $269 a month HOA fee, that was excessive...

Hi dusty (and all)!

I'm married to the sweetest, most loving man in the world, and he's a brilliant musician and a good computer techie, but he absolutely hates fixing anything.  Therefore, in order to keep both of us happy, I'll happily trim down, toss out, or otherwise eliminate any potential source of aggravation.  'Peace' and 'contentment' are happy words.

Our sleeping bags have a rating of -35 C, and we also carry a couple of duvets on board, so we're not in danger of freezing at night.  In really cold weather, we wear ski pants and big warm sweaters from either Iceland or Nepal in the daytime, so we're always comfortable.  I walked around in Yukon Territory at -50 C wearing this gear and a coat, and it never gets that cold here.  It *does* get damp though, which is where we're hoping the Reflectix will help.

We're also planning to park next week and insulate Buster thoroughly.  He won't look as pretty as he does at the moment, but he'll hold the heat much better than he used to.  We plan to use the same 'stuff' as this guy does in his van, except we *are* using the 1" thick insulation.  [video=dailymotion]

We're using both the insulation and the flooring in the basement of our RV too.  Although cool air descends (and heat rises), we'd rather keep the basement area as cozy as we can.  Nothing for Brian to have to 'fix' there.  He doesn't mind building, and he's good at it, so we think we'll have the insulation and flooring finished in three days maximum - God Willing.  We'll let you know how it goes.

Blessings to all,


Jesse.
P.S. I can't get the link to work. Any help would be appreciated. TIA.

 

[westriver]

You are buying a lifestyle with a Class A, and $50K ain't gonna buy you nearly new unless it is a lower line like a Winnebago Gasser, which is a long weekend type of coach at best.

I'm working my way through this thread and got a bit of a laugh out of this one. I own a "lower line Winnebago gasser". Which is apparently something that causes the upper crust to turn their noses up. Since it's only capable of a "long weekend, at best", I guess I'm just too stupid to know any better. Me, the wife and two dogs have been quite comfortable as we travel North America, putting 22K miles on this year, and spending 80% of our time on the road. I guess it's a real POS though, in the last year it has needed two repairs. I changed the wall thermostat and the water heater igniter, for a grand total of $93 in parts. Since it's a well engineered and built camper, sitting on a medium duty Ford truck chassis, I have little doubt that it will serve me well for as long as I decide to keep it. As for the "need" for a big class A? Well, the wife is severely disabled and can't use anything smaller. I wish we could, but it just isn't happening.

 

[DannyB1954]

When I was living on a boat in the San Francisco bay someone posted a cartoon on the marina bulletin board. It was a picture of a pier with boats going up in size as the pier went into the water. Everyone on their boat was eyeing the next larger boat. The guy at the end with the largest boat was using binoculars to look with envy at the smallest boat. More RV also means more insurance, more registration, more depreciation, more upkeep etc. It comes to how much do you want to serve your possessions. I personally don't see the value of an RV that costs the same as a decent house.

I like the story of the king has no clothes. Public opinion is basically worthless. If you have what serves you well, there is no need for anything different. If someone looks down their nose at you, feel sorry for them. They still think the King as fine clothes.

I have an old 30' Class A, and I am thinking it is too large for what i want to do, so I am like the guy with binoculars. I am still hashing over if I want to make a truck camper, or just get a Class C or van. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. I don't plan on doing a lot of city camping, so a trailer is even a consideration.

 

[Wanderer]

I see often these $45K and even higher RV's park at the Walmart.  Man, if you have the $$$ to buy that, why are you parking in a Walmart? Saving money? yet you bought that?

 

[Almost There]

I see often these $45K and even higher RV's park at the Walmart.  Man, if you have the $$$ to buy that, why are you parking in a Walmart? Saving money? yet you bought that?

Ha, if you think that's bad you should try getting an RV parking spot in some place like a Flying J - if you're not there by 4 PM you are SOL. All the spaces are taken by 1/4 million dollar rigs.

With mortgages like they put on those things and the cost of running them down the highway, NO they can't afford to pay for campsites.

 

[compassrose]

I see often these $45K and even higher RV's park at the Walmart.  Man, if you have the $$$ to buy that, why are you parking in a Walmart? Saving money? yet you bought that?

CONVENIENCE. That is why they are parked at Wal-Mart. Or do you think that only vandwellers should be allowed to park at Wal-Mart? Parking at Wal-Mart means you can do your grocery shopping, eat out (if desired), refuel and not have to bother with the check in rigamarole and setup involved with RV parks. Also if you are one of the early birds and want to be on the road at daybreak (or earlier) or are getting in late, then you are not disturbing folks if you simply stay in a parking lot. This is always beat to death on RV forums. It always boils down to the same thing. You have a group of folks who say no one should ever park over night anywhere except in a campground (reason is usually that you are "depriving a campground of money they rightfully deserve") and they would NEVER spend even one night in a campground (some go so far as to say you shouldn't even drive your RV to the store to go grocery shopping), another group who says they stay there for convenience (and it's not to save money... it usually costs more to park in a lot than it does to pull into a campground) and another group who don't care at all.

I personally prefer Sam's Clubs over most anywhere else that I have parked overnight at. Nice wide entrances. I pop in. Ask politely if I can stay the night. Then I cruise the store seeing what they got (different stores carry slightly different products). I sometimes pick up something for supper or snack. Sometimes I do my normal grocery shopping. I can refuel if the gas station will handle an over sized vehicle. The other place I like to spend the night at is the parking lot at Cracker Barrel. I eat supper there, ask to spend the night, then eat breakfast the next morning. Very convenient for me. Saving money? No. I figure can stay in a campground with a half price Passport America discount with full hookups for less than I can run my generator overnight. But very convenient. Especially since I am night blind. I don't like to drive at night because I never know if it is going to be a "good" night or a "bad" night. And, contrary to what many of you who never step foot in an RV park, there are plenty of places where it is a long ways to an RV park or campground. Or a decent place to stay (check out some of those RVparkreviews.com)

But the deal is this. You got no more business saying anything about someone in any kind of RV spending the night in any parking lot than an RVer telling you that you can't park on the street or where ever it is you park. What? You can't afford to park in a campground? Check into a homeless shelter. Same. Bloody. Thing. I really don't care if you park your (whatever you are in) in a parking lot, in an empty field or at the bottom of a lake. I won't begrudge you the option of parking where you want. So why should you begrudge or object to where anyone parks?

I find it interesting how the vandwellers here enjoy bashing the RVers. Yet an RVer can't say anything against a vandweller. I get so tired of that garbage. "Do it MY way or don't do it at all. Because MY way is the only RIGHT way to do it". Not just here but on all the RV forums. I call bullshit! The very title of this thread is a good indicator of the bias prevalent, celebrated and encouraged on this forum.

 

[compassrose]

"2002 GMC Savana 2500, fiberglass high top DIY conversion"


Where do you park? You're in a more expensive thing than I am in. Therefore I don't think YOU should be parking your expensive RV in a parking lot or anywhere I might park, taking up space that I can use. Makes sense to me. Doesn't it to you?

 

[Almost There]

"2002 GMC Savana 2500, fiberglass high top DIY conversion"


Where do you park? You're in a more expensive thing than I am in. Therefore I don't think YOU should be parking your expensive RV in a parking lot or anywhere I might park, taking up space that I can use. Makes sense to me. Doesn't it to you?

Actually, when I was on the road in my older Winnebago 35' Class A towing a trailer was when I had problems find a parking spot for the night in a Flying J because I could only fit in the RV spots.

It wasn't a rant, nor do I believe it came out as one. It was a comparison because at least in a W/M parking lot there is still always room for one more. In a Flying J, there is a limited number of RV spots available.

As to today, my standard length van will fit just about anywhere so I no longer worry about whether I can get a parking spot.

We won't go in to cost because mine is in Canadian $$ but let's just put it this way, I have way less than 10G US in to the van, the interior, new tires and the bodywork I had done when I bought it.

I'm not sure what the source of your rants of  today are, but if it makes you happy to think that we're playing 'I'm more entitled than you are' have at it.

 

[compassrose]

I'm not sure what the source of your rants of  today are, but if it makes you happy to think that we're playing 'I'm more entitled than you are' have at it.

I'm not ranting. Just telling what my opinion of what this thread appears to be. And it's not worth the effort anymore.

 

[Wanderer]

CONVENIENCE

(Rant snipped)
I find it interesting how the vandwellers here enjoy bashing the RVers. Yet an RVer can't say anything against a vandweller. I get so tired of that garbage. "Do it MY way or don't do it at all. Because MY way is the only RIGHT way to do it". Not just here but on all the RV forums. I call bullshit! The very title of this thread is a good indicator of the bias prevalent, celebrated and encouraged on this forum.


First of all, it was an observation. I see high end and low end vehicles park at Walmart. I was commenting that people obviously either didn't plan their expense possibly or are being frugal for the wrong reasons. But you can cry if you want. Matters not to me.

 

[ZoNiE]

I'm working my way through this thread and got a bit of a laugh out of this one. I own a "lower line Winnebago gasser". Which is apparently something that causes the upper crust to turn their noses up. Since it's only capable of a "long weekend, at best", I guess I'm just too stupid to know any better. Me, the wife and two dogs have been quite comfortable as we travel North America, putting 22K miles on this year, and spending 80% of our time on the road. I guess it's a real POS though, in the last year it has needed two repairs. I changed the wall thermostat and the water heater igniter, for a grand total of $93 in parts. Since it's a well engineered and built camper, sitting on a medium duty Ford truck chassis, I have little doubt that it will serve me well for as long as I decide to keep it. As for the "need" for a big class A? Well, the wife is severely disabled and can't use anything smaller. I wish we could, but it just isn't happening.

Congratulations. You have experienced the same as most RV'ers. Most stuff is pretty good in the short term, and the stuff that breaks is what they all use. Calling it a lower end gasser means nothing other than Winnie has products that range from small TT's up through High end DP's. A lower line Winnebago gasser is what it is, their low end of class A's. They overlap a bit with their higher end Class C's. They are going for $85K NEW right now. There is your few years old $50K Winnie. A gasser. A better value over that NEW $85K gasser is a 5 year old higher end DP.

A used Mercedes E class is a better value than a new Honda accord. You get more car for the money.

We've been looking at lots of Class A's lately. Used, of course, already depreciated and all the factory problems long solved. The build quality increases with price, It's just one of those things. The gaudiness also increases with price... :s

We have a pretty good TT, but I wouldn't live full time in it. The materials (fabrics, wood, etc) just are not made for that, and the gasser Winnebagos are the same. We walked through a few Monaco's then a Winnebago DP in the same hour. The materials were noticeably lower quality in the Winnebago. Was there Value in the Winnebago, Sure. For one price, we could get the 2008 Monaco or for less, the 2008 Winnebago with a huge matching cargo trailer big enough for a small car and all of our toys. If we were to buy one, We'd probably pick the Winnebago for weekends/vacations, but the Monaco for Full Timing.

You get what you pay for. Buy what you need.

 

[Canine]

Actually, every type of vehicle could have this label of making no $ sense. There is a guy just down the street from where I am temporarily parked who has a brand new 27' bumper pull trailer and a 2015 F150 Lariat to pull it with. I waddled over and asked him how he liked his rig, just for conversation. He happily babbled on about the great deal he got on the trailer (list 39K down to 29K) and he paid (gulp) $52K for the truck, loaded with everything and max tow package, built in brake controller etc... So without taxes (8% ish) he has $82K plus taxes plus the new yamaha 2000 genset and whatever else. So does that combination make $ sense? It did to him, it wouldn't to me (thats like 20 of my vans) but the point is, its America, he's old and knows he doesnt have a lot of time left so he bought it.

Our original poster was saying that class A's didn't pencil out for him and he probably still believes that. A few of you who own and travel in class A's have defended your rides and for good reason, they are mostly comfy, do what you want them to do and are at least nicer than my van.

Whether a class A, B, C or trailer ever "pencils out" is pretty much a matter of disposable income and willingness to pay for a particular hobby or lifestyle. For me, single, near broke and cheap, I can't live in one (class A) and park in the suburbs in front of other peoples houses, which is where I park about a third of the time. However, when I get that SS check and my piddly pension, I'd be up for a smaller Class A or C just to have the built in conveniances and the roof area for lots of solar.

We really ought to allow the OP to post and say it doesn't seem to be a good choice for him or many others, just like the class A owners will say it is. It's all in how they are used or not used. Anything, even the cargo van, sitting unused doesn't make a lot of $ sense, unless that's the alternative to a cardboard box under the overpass.

Surprised this old thread is still hanging around. Now what doesn't make a lot of $ sense to me are the $80,000 conversion vans which are for sale brand new...

 

[ZoNiE]

 Now what doesn't make a lot of $ sense to me are the $80,000 conversion vans which are for sale brand new...

They are pushing 6 figures now. The ProMasters give a lot of room to add "stuff" Some people will happily pay that for a new one and have all the amenities in a small package.

Not my cup of tea.

As for this thread hanging around, It pops up from time to time. I always click on todays posts, and sometimes old ones pop up due to new responses. I find it the best way to navigate this forum.

 

[DannyB1954]

We all choose how we spend our available money. No real need to justify what you chose, or why you chose it. I could probably afford to buy something new, (with bank financing), but I choose not to. I just don't see the value in that. I once bought a new truck and regretted it. I was always committed to keeping it, because I would lose too much if I sold it for something else.

 

[wadefisherman]

CONVENIENCE. That is why they are parked at Wal-Mart. Or do you think that only vandwellers should be allowed to park at Wal-Mart? Parking at Wal-Mart means you can do your grocery shopping, eat out (if desired), refuel and not have to bother with the check in rigamarole and setup involved with RV parks. Also if you are one of the early birds and want to be on the road at daybreak (or earlier) or are getting in late, then you are not disturbing folks if you simply stay in a parking lot. This is always beat to death on RV forums. It always boils down to the same thing. You have a group of folks who say no one should ever park over night anywhere except in a campground (reason is usually that you are "depriving a campground of money they rightfully deserve") and they would NEVER spend even one night in a campground (some go so far as to say you shouldn't even drive your RV to the store to go grocery shopping), another group who says they stay there for convenience (and it's not to save money... it usually costs more to park in a lot than it does to pull into a campground) and another group who don't care at all.

I personally prefer Sam's Clubs over most anywhere else that I have parked overnight at. Nice wide entrances. I pop in. Ask politely if I can stay the night. Then I cruise the store seeing what they got (different stores carry slightly different products). I sometimes pick up something for supper or snack. Sometimes I do my normal grocery shopping. I can refuel if the gas station will handle an over sized vehicle. The other place I like to spend the night at is the parking lot at Cracker Barrel. I eat supper there, ask to spend the night, then eat breakfast the next morning. Very convenient for me. Saving money? No. I figure can stay in a campground with a half price Passport America discount with full hookups for less than I can run my generator overnight. But very convenient. Especially since I am night blind. I don't like to drive at night because I never know if it is going to be a "good" night or a "bad" night. And, contrary to what many of you who never step foot in an RV park, there are plenty of places where it is a long ways to an RV park or campground. Or a decent place to stay (check out some of those RVparkreviews.com)

But the deal is this. You got no more business saying anything about someone in any kind of RV spending the night in any parking lot than an RVer telling you that you can't park on the street or where ever it is you park. What? You can't afford to park in a campground? Check into a homeless shelter. Same. Bloody. Thing. I really don't care if you park your (whatever you are in) in a parking lot, in an empty field or at the bottom of a lake. I won't begrudge you the option of parking where you want. So why should you begrudge or object to where anyone parks?

I find it interesting how the vandwellers here enjoy bashing the RVers. Yet an RVer can't say anything against a vandweller. I get so tired of that garbage. "Do it MY way or don't do it at all. Because MY way is the only RIGHT way to do it". Not just here but on all the RV forums. I call bullshit! The very title of this thread is a good indicator of the bias prevalent, celebrated and encouraged on this forum.

 

[buckwilk]

Hey OP, compare apples to oranges, come up with anything you want. A new 2016 Chevy cargo van starts at $30,000 and goes from there. Very few van dwellers buy new. Most people with RVs you would find on this forum don't buy new either. Anyone who wants to live in a van and doesn't feel the need to denigrate others choices is ok with me. I'm not sure where that negative attitude comes from from but it is really tedious. I care about peoples attitudes, are they friendly, caring, fun, happy, interesting, positive, adventurous, I couldn't care less what they live in.

 

[gcal]

So am doing the math after watching some videos. A relatively new class A RV will be around $50,000.  

If you buy it outright you start loosing 6% interest yearly. So let's says $4000 yearly lost to depreciation. ($350 monthly)

I like to round numbers to make the mathyou should maintenance and insurance of $100 per month if lucky.  Plus interest lost on that $50000 in the bank which would make $2500 a year ($200 lost monthly). Plus an RV rental spot of $500 a month if you are lucky.

$1100 a month cost. Which is around $13000 a year.  And I would put aside $2000 more per year to plan it's replacement.

So a CLASS A RV is costing $15000 in real money cost to your lifestyle. You still need to pay for food-health-clothing-entertainment-gasoline-registration-toad car --- costs on top of that.

No rv is a good deal if you have to take out a big loan on it. Also, I don't know what kind of class A you are going to buy new for $50,000. It's a lifestyle choice. It's not all about cost. If you have to mortgage your future and greatly limit your options to make that choice, maybe you should make some different choices and take more time to prepare.

 

[gcal]

Actually, every type ofaren'tigoing tosh cram ouourselvess intocle could have this label of making no $ sense.  There is a guy just down the street from where I am temporarily parked who has a brand new 27' bumper pull trailer and a 2015 F150 Lariat to pull it with.  I waddled over and asked him how he liked his rig, just for conversation.  He happily babbled on about the great deal he got on the trailer (list 39K down to 29K) and he paid (gulp) $52K for the truck, loaded with everything and max tow package, built in brake controller etc...  So without taxes (8% ish) he has $82K plus taxes plus the new yamaha 2000 genset and whatever else.  So does that combination make $ sense?  It did to him, it wouldn't to me (thats like 20 of my vans) but the point is, its America, he's old and knows he doesnt have a lot of time left so he bought it.  

Our original poster was saying that class A's didn't pencil out for him and he probably still believes that.  A few of you who own and travel in class A's have defended your rides and for good reason, they are mostly comfy, do what you want them to do and are at least nicer than my van.  

Whether a class A, B, C or trailer ever "pencils out" is pretty much a matter of disposable income and willingness to pay for a particular hobby or lifestyle.  For me, single, near broke and cheap, I can't live in one (class A) and park in the suburbs in front of other peoples houses, which is where I park about a third of the time.  However, when I get that SS check and my piddly pension, I'd be up for a smaller Class A or C just to have the built in conveniances and the roof area for lots of solar.  

We really ought to allow the OP to post and say it doesn't seem to be a good choice for him or many others, just like the class A owners will say it is.  It's all in how they are used or not used.  Anything, even the cargo van, sitting unused doesn't make a lot of $ sense, unless that's the alternative to a cardboard box under the overpass.

Surprised this old thread is still hanging around.  Now what doesn't make a lot of $ sense to me are the $80,000 conversion vans which are for sale brand new...

"He's old." Yep. A definite consideratuion. Most of us, by the time we are old, have a little savings put by. We are getting social security and may have a pension, while the youngsters are still scrambling for a living. We have bad backs and arthritis and artificial joints, and we aren't going to shoehorn ourselves into tight quarters if we don't have to do so.

 

[westriver]

Congratulations. You have experienced the same as most RV'ers. Most stuff is pretty good in the short term, and the stuff that breaks is what they all use.

( I'm actually on my tenth RV, and closing in on twenty years of owning and using them pretty hard. My rig is nine years old, and my experiences are hardly the "same as most RVers". I put 25K miles on it in 2015, and do all service and repair work myself, which makes my experience about as far as you can get from the typical owner, who puts 3-4K miles on, in a typical year, and pays $110 HR to let a shop keep the thing running. I bought a Winny quite deliberately, but a Newmar, or other high quality brand would of worked just as well. I disagree the most stuff is pretty good in the short term, particularly a lot of the trash built by some of the biggest volume motorhome builders like Thor and Forest River. )

Calling it a lower end gasser means nothing other than Winnie has products that range from small TT's up through High end DP's. A lower line Winnebago gasser is what it is, their low end of class A's.

( My comment was specifically addressing the snotty "weekend use at best" silliness you posted)

They overlap a bit with their higher end Class C's. They are going for $85K NEW right now. There is your few years old $50K Winnie. A gasser. A better value over that NEW $85K gasser is a 5 year old higher end DP.

(Most higher end five year old DPs are not in the $85K range, but much higher. Something that cost the original owner $250K on up, doesn't depreciate to $85K in a few years. We did the used DP thing once, and decided it wasn't for us. Complex and extremely expensive to repair and maintain, no thanks.)

A used Mercedes E class is a better value than a new Honda accord. You get more car for the money.

(different strokes, the Accord will last exponentially longer, with a far more economical, reliable ownership experience. Spending more for a less reliable vehicle, since you need to impress somebody, doesn't seem like a better value)

We've been looking at lots of Class A's lately. Used, of course, already depreciated and all the factory problems long solved. The build quality increases with price, It's just one of those things. The gaudiness also increases with price... :s

( build quality may or may not increase with price. We have friends with a new Forest River DP that is a total piece of junk and is nowhere near the quality of our rig, that cost 80% less.)

We have a pretty good TT, but I wouldn't live full time in it. The materials (fabrics, wood, etc) just are not made for that, and the gasser Winnebagos are the same. We walked through a few Monaco's then a Winnebago DP in the same hour. The materials were noticeably lower quality in the Winnebago. Was there Value in the Winnebago, Sure. For one price, we could get the 2008 Monaco or for less, the 2008 Winnebago with a huge matching cargo trailer big enough for a small car and all of our toys. If we were to buy one, We'd probably pick the Winnebago for weekends/vacations, but the Monaco for Full Timing.

You get what you pay for. Buy what you need.

If you are knowledgeable, experienced, and take the time to learn from others, you are more likely to get what you pay for. If you are new to the RV world, and as you seem to suggest, think that there is a very clear, linear relationship between the pile of Benjamins you give, and the quality of the product you receive, there may be some tough lessons ahead for you. Best of luck.

 

[westriver]

Ha, if you think that's bad you should try getting an RV parking spot in some place like a Flying J - if you're not there by 4 PM you are SOL. All the spaces are taken by 1/4 million dollar rigs.

With mortgages like they put on those things and the cost of running them down the highway, NO they can't afford to pay for campsites.

We occasionally pull into a Wal-mart with a big motorhome, and do so for many legitimate reasons. All of which have exactly nothing to do with the mortgage (paid cash) the cost of operating it, or inability to afford a campsite. The most common reason is that there is either no campground nearby, or they are booked solid. Other times I pushed hard on the road, into the night, and don't really feel like spending time winding down dark backroads to find a campground that may, or may not have a spot available for the evening. A lot of campgrounds, particularly smaller family run operations, are notoriously unprofessional in how they run their offices, and frequently fail to answer their phones in the middle of a work day, much less after five PM. As a result, they might have plenty of room, but there is no way to find out if they do, or don't want you checking in after hours. Finally, some places are simply out of their minds when it comes to what they charge, when you arrive late at night, and just want a place to park and hook up the power cord until the nest morning. I'm not spending $40-50 to be there for 7-8 hours, and use nothing but $ 0.50 worth of power.