Cargo Trailer Advice

[Redbearded]

Hi All,

I'm looking at doing a Cargo conversion. I'd like to keep total weight of the trailer and gear under 4-4.5k. There are a few things I have been considering:

1. I hear people talking about 6 vs 7, but my question is if the 7 has the same wheel width as a 8.5 why not get the extra room? Plus I keep hearing that the tandem trailers ride smoother. I can understand that there is some concern about hitting something, is that that only concern?

2. Height: It sounds like the extra height trailers are almost a no brainer? What are the drawbacks?

3. So my tow vehicle (07 FJ Cruiser Manual trans with up to 5k towing cap) is currently running some monster off-road tires (it came that way when I bought it) and I was thinking about getting the trailer set up with the same tires, wheel, and bolt pattern so I only have to carry the one spare? I know there are some issues with running LT tires on a trailer, but if I have 4 of them and the trailer weighs less than my rig is there really a problem? or is there something I'm missing? Also looking to get the trailer lifted a bit for better ground clearance if that is even possible (I see the toy haulers that look lifted, not sure if they can do the same thing with a cargo). Here is what I am thinking about


4. Because I am looking for lightness in the trailer as well as a good balance and tongue weight I'm thinking very seriously about aluminum (like 99%) unless someone can give me a reason why not.

5. I'm also leaning to a v-nose trailer (again extra volume), any cons?

6. Also looking at doing electric brakes as opposed to surge (I'm only familiar with surge, and those are pretty awful from what I remember) and reason to 

7. Lastly roof design: I'm thinking flat to make it easier for mounting gobs of solar, any reason to go rounded?

 

[John61CT]

1. Going wider than the TV up high means special extension side mirrors.

Wider can't go lots of boondocks places narrower can

Higher fuel consumption.


2. Much higher fuel consumption, potential stability problems

3. Yes same tires good plan if tough

4. Cost

5. Cost

6. Cost

7. Maybe little lower fuel consumption.

Looks

 

[Redbearded]

Thanks for the swift reply!

Height is one of the things I will take into account for stability, though that may be offset a bit with the wider trailer.

 

[John61CT]

I like the idea of 7.5" for a sideways bed with good insulation.

A popup roof makes a huge difference if your rig is otherwise fuel efficient.

Or maybe a drop-down floor in a combined galley / shower will be enough for some extra headroom.

 

[Redbearded]

I think I'm going to try to keep as much water out of the inside of the trailer as possible, I've seen too much unexpected damage when water and wood meet in secret

Plus I'm planning on a compost head and so that will eliminate the need for a black water tank and if I keep a grey water system to just a kitchen sink that should be manageable.

I'm not sure if I want a flat and level floor or if I want some other configuration.

The idea right now is to make everything modular and movable by using L-Track along the walls to lash things where I want them. Bed will be suspended from the rear roof and drop down like I saw in one of the posts here. I like their solution better! It's cheaper and more functional than what I was thinking about.

 

[Redbearded]

Also I've seen some really cool foam composite stuff that people are making for van interiors and teardrops and the plan is to use some of those techniques to make light strong interior structures. I may do some reinforcement with some aluminum (like the 80/20 stuff) but that stuff is like a dollar and inch... I'm blowing the budget but that is just nuts!

Planning a kitchen structure built to sit next to a chest freezer (fridge mode) which would hold the sink and dishes.

A pantry structure for dry good storage

A tool structure (or maybe just some toolboxes)

A computer/electronics structure (for the server and stereo)

The head will be in the V up front and the batteries will be under the couch just behind the tires. The opposite side may have load space for a motorcycle or electric scooter of some kind.

TV mounted on the ceiling above the bed and able to tilt down to face outside the trailer and swivel to face inside as well.

The rear door will be a lift to provide shade with a fold down step or ramp as well for access.

Extra seating will be in the form of sail bags with clothing in it (like a sorta stiff beanbag) 

I may also want across from the couch a pop up vending/concession opening above and a fold out table for outdoor relaxation/dining.

Water heating will be solar from a solar thermal system not sure on the size and capacity yet. I know I need to get over a certain temp on average to kill legionella and other nasties.

I also want hooks built in at all 4 corners at various heights (inside and outside) for attaching hammocks and guy lines for shade cloth.

There is prolly more I'm forgetting, lol.

It's like all the ideas are finally coalescing Now I just need to get in a draw the thing up in solidworks and run some FEA on it to make sure it'll work... Details...

 

[highdesertranger]

since you posted a pic of an off road trailer and are going to tow with a 4wd,  I am going to chime in.  I have hauled my trailer off road all over the west.  here's my thoughts,

1.  the wider your trailer is the more your trailer must be bullet proof.  the wider the trailer the more you will scrape the sides.  trees and boulders show no mercy.  brush is going to scratch the piss out of it just like your tow vehicle.

2.  height,  the taller the trailer the more tree branches are going to become a problem.  unless you consider tree trimming fun.

3.  what size tires are you running?  if you are doing serious off road driving I always recommend a 33 inch tire as a maximum height.  anything taller is special order in most out of the way places.  you could wait a week for a tire to be delivered unless you are going to pay premium shipping.  which brings me to another point,  one spare just doesn't cut it.  2 minimum and on a few occasions that's not enough.  remember load range "E" or better.

I only run LT tires on my trailer,  boy do I have some stories about trailer tires.  the only downside is some places will not mount LT tires on a trailer,  just take them the rims.

the trailer must be lifted for off road driving.  it's fairly easy you just mount the axle under the spring instead of over.  only get a trailer with leaf springs.  no torsion axles.

4.  I am not really sure about using aluminum for an off road trailer.  welding aluminum anneals the metal and then it's prone to cracking right next to the weld.  notice for this reason they don't weld airplanes.

5.   a v nose is fine just make sure you are at the frame rails and not wider.  more on this later.

6.  yes on the electric brakes,  this also allows for applying just the trailer brakes.

7.  there are pros and cons to both roof designs.  I feel that there is nothing wrong with a flat roof just as long as it's one piece. no seems.

now a few explanations,  notice the trailer in your picture,  look at the tongue.  see how long it is.  this is very important so that you can jack knife it tight situations.  so any V-nose on the box must not  protrude beyond the tongue's V's.  also a three rail tongue is much stronger and better.  keep in mind this cuts out most but not all factory ball mounts.

another point over the capacity of the axles.  if you want a 5,000lb trailer go with at least a 6k axle.  which brings up another point if you go with two axles you are going to make the trailer heavier.  and will be cutting into the payload.  I would only recommend Dexter axles.  if you are going to RTR you can have a look at my trailer it has many thousands of miles of off road driving here's some pics it's not a cargo but the next one I build will be.




these are the type of roads I travel.  highdesertranger

 

[Redbearded]

I LOVE how awesome you folks are!!! 

Ok, here is what my TV looks like today and it has 295/70 17 which are 33.26" diameter. I think they are Nitto Trail Grapplers, but I'd have to check.


It's a bit much and I don't use it to it's full capability, but it's a fun one

I am not sure what I'm really going to do, and where I plan to take it at this point but I know that I'd rather build in more features than less. Plus I can always get another trailer down the road if I find the big one too unwieldy. At this point I'm not sure how far I really plan to go off in the boonies with the trailer in tow, but one of the things I'm a bit worried about is having a single axle that beats the living crap out of my stuff in the trailer (at that point aluminum would have to be well overbuilt to be justified).

I was planning on lifting the trailer because otherwise the tires prolly wouldn't fit

The aluminum thing is because I know my TV is going to be pushing it's limits with something as big as planned (one of the side gigs I'm thinking about, is running stuff for U-Ship when I need to get somewhere and want my gas covered) Ideally I would end up with a 2500lb trailer with like 500 lb of personal stuff leaving some capacity as needed once the tanks are dry. I haven't really started with figuring weights except for very preliminarily. 

I know that there are issues with AL and it's fatigue limits, could I do a steel base structure and an aluminum superstructure? Would I run into some issues with corrosion? I've seen what can happen to dissimilar metals in the marine environment, and frankly is scares the bejesus out of me, lol. Also in the name of lightness and especially durability I'm going to "try" to avoid wood products (not decided yet on the replacement of choice).

I figure I'd have to go with bigger axles as to the the bolt pattern 6 X 5.5 would prolly require it (maybe not tho, this is part that is new for me). I will keep in mind the Dexter Axle recommendation, thanks! What is the reasoning from staying away from the torsion beam? I thought they ran smoother on the trailer, or is it a durability/reliability thing when offroad (less stuff to break)?

I'll keep the rec for multiple spares in mind if I get into doing any serious offroading, at this point I'd be happy with boondocking a bit off the beaten path
It looks like the tires weigh about 55 lbs shipped sans wheel so I guess I could always make room for a second spare, though that brings other issues, like mounting it up and carrying tire irons etc, which is prolly more than I have interest in doing. As a side note the Tires I'm looking at have a load index of 121 which means load cap of 3197 lbs. It looks like the prev owner who put these meats on made a good choice for me as the ones I have are 10 ply! 

 
295/70-17295/70-17

 

[Redbearded]

I love the look of this thing Oo


But the price is nuts! I'm doing a less expensive, more solar, less expeditioning version

 

[LoupGarou]

Sounds like a fun project. Sourceing insurance on any DIY conversion or build is problematic but not impossible. Make sure you keep the receipts for the big ticket items. It helps to assign a value to the build.

 

[jimindenver]

Like HDR I pull my 25 ft trailer down some 4x4 trails, well maybe crawl is a better word for it. As a ultra light there are some things that while some will point them out as a disadvantage, on the trail they can make all the difference in the world. Two of them are it is narrower and not as tall as a regular travel trailer, being lighter weight to start with doesn't hurt either. I am not talking pin strips, anyone that takes any vehicle on 4x4 trails knows that it has already been sacrificed to the trail god. HDR mentioned getting under and between, I will add hair pins and switch backs where six inches makes a big difference. Need to back it into a tight spot, it helps there too.

 

[Redbearded]

Found an interesting version of a wide trailer with dual solid axles and not hovering right off the ground



Could be interesting, I wouldn't have to lift it but my center of gravity might be creeping up a bit by time I put some tires on it...

The differences between the 16', 20' and 24' are #1700, #2150 and #2400. So the question is, is an extra 8' in usable trailer length worth #700...

 

[highdesertranger]

you don't need to do serious off road to shred tires. if you drive 40+ mph on graded roads you will do it. torsion axles are hard to lift and are basically non-serviceable. if one fails in the middle of no where you are in trouble. the more you articulate them the faster they wear. you want your suspension as simple as possible. highdesertranger

 

[Redbearded]

Makes sense about the suspension. It sounds like it's one of those less is more things

As to the tires getting shredded: one of the benefits of setting up for extended boondocking and exploring is not having the need to rush. One of the things I'm really looking forward to is only being limited by water and fuel (and I may look into some kind of water maker from the boating industry, that is just a twinkle of an idea at this point). I may decide later to retrofit an aux fuel tank on the TV so I get a bit more range.

 

[highdesertranger]

yep, slow down your vehicle and tires will thank you. I can carry 85 gallons of fuel, at RTR I will have about 100 gallons of water. highdesertranger

 

[Redbearded]

Yeah I was thinking about tankage, then I looked up 100 gal of water is like 830#... I kinda knew it it was heavy, but it hurts to see the actual numbers, lol.

 

[John61CT]

There's a reason "carrying water for those guys" is derogatory

 

[highdesertranger]

yep water and fuel ain't lite. the reasons I bring so much water to RTR is for gold processing equipment. with all the panning I am planning this year I might have to go get more. highdesertranger

 

[HaidaBoy]

Hi All,

I'm looking at doing a Cargo conversion. I'd like to keep total weight of the trailer and gear under 4-4.5k. There are a few things I have been considering:

1. I hear people talking about 6 vs 7, but my question is if the 7 has the same wheel width as a 8.5 why not get the extra room? Plus I keep hearing that the tandem trailers ride smoother. I can understand that there is some concern about hitting something, is that that only concern?

2. Height: It sounds like the extra height trailers are almost a no brainer? What are the drawbacks?

3. So my tow vehicle (07 FJ Cruiser Manual trans with up to 5k towing cap) is currently running some monster off-road tires (it came that way when I bought it) and I was thinking about getting the trailer set up with the same tires, wheel, and bolt pattern so I only have to carry the one spare? I know there are some issues with running LT tires on a trailer, but if I have 4 of them and the trailer weighs less than my rig is there really a problem? or is there something I'm missing? Also looking to get the trailer lifted a bit for better ground clearance if that is even possible (I see the toy haulers that look lifted, not sure if they can do the same thing with a cargo). Here is what I am thinking about


4. Because I am looking for lightness in the trailer as well as a good balance and tongue weight I'm thinking very seriously about aluminum (like 99%) unless someone can give me a reason why not.

5. I'm also leaning to a v-nose trailer (again extra volume), any cons?

6. Also looking at doing electric brakes as opposed to surge (I'm only familiar with surge, and those are pretty awful from what I remember) and reason to 

7. Lastly roof design: I'm thinking flat to make it easier for mounting gobs of solar, any reason to go rounded?

Just a thought... You might need a more heavy duty vehicle. I ran into that trying to use a Jeep Cherokee 4.0 to tow a 6x10 that only weighed half what you have in mind. It struggled big time with 3.55 gears. Instead of changing the gear ratio to 4.10, I will replace it with a more HD vehicle. Keep in mind, if you go up in tire size, you sometimes have to go lower in your differential gearing. Good Luck!

 

[Redbearded]

I've thought about switching, but I may wait a bit to see where things go. I'd prefer not  to change especially if I can get the payload under 3500#. One thing that I think about is as long as I can stay a good bit under the 5000# towing capacity, I think I'll be ok. I have a manual trans and full time 4wd so I'm not worried about cooking the transmission. When I'm towing the trailer I won't be in a rush so I hope/think I'll be OK.

If I was to get something else I would look at an older Toyota LandCruiser which has a V8 and should tow up to 8000#, a nicer safety margin.