Camping on your own land, outlawed
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eDJ_
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I've watched that video a few times myself. I believe he worked in theatrical productions ?
I've often thought of a more subterranean Tiny Home shell that would work like a garage
for the Van. Thus when at the home site the Van and it's contents becomes the furnishings
of the Tiny Home. It would have a septic tank and a cistern for domestic water supply.
A garage door at one end and solar glazing over part of the south facing wall. (which could be
covered with plywood when gone) The roof would have a small amount of soil on it with
vegetation planted to make what is called a "living roof". Rubber roofing would cover the
soil facing walls and the roof
Perhaps a Stealth homestead on one's own land a few minutes from a smaller town which would
have a Laundromat, Grocery Store, Gas Station, and perhaps a big box store of some kind
within a reasonable distance.
This is just a rough idea. When on the road the facility would only be an empty garage room.
I've often thought of a more subterranean Tiny Home shell that would work like a garage
for the Van. Thus when at the home site the Van and it's contents becomes the furnishings
of the Tiny Home. It would have a septic tank and a cistern for domestic water supply.
A garage door at one end and solar glazing over part of the south facing wall. (which could be
covered with plywood when gone) The roof would have a small amount of soil on it with
vegetation planted to make what is called a "living roof". Rubber roofing would cover the
soil facing walls and the roof
Perhaps a Stealth homestead on one's own land a few minutes from a smaller town which would
have a Laundromat, Grocery Store, Gas Station, and perhaps a big box store of some kind
within a reasonable distance.
This is just a rough idea. When on the road the facility would only be an empty garage room.
minimotos95
Well-known member
eDJ, I like the way you think.
I was thinking when I get land the first thing I would set-up would be a lean to style dugout with a rammed earth floor and tire bricks for the walls. camo netting over the open side and park my van inside, then If I don't get a visit from the government after a while close off the open side and add amenities. All just an idea at this point as I won't have my minimum budget for a few months. Then the process of finding the right land...
I was thinking when I get land the first thing I would set-up would be a lean to style dugout with a rammed earth floor and tire bricks for the walls. camo netting over the open side and park my van inside, then If I don't get a visit from the government after a while close off the open side and add amenities. All just an idea at this point as I won't have my minimum budget for a few months. Then the process of finding the right land...
jimindenver
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Cool video but it show a glaring truth about off grid living. It is not cheap or easy. Those shipping containers and water tanks cost the bucks.
Just some links I have gathered in the last few months?
http://www.undergroundhousing.com/index.html
http://www.buildingconservation.com...earch.x=0&search.y=0&Match=1&Realm=whole+site
http://www.undergroundhousing.com/index.html
http://www.buildingconservation.com...earch.x=0&search.y=0&Match=1&Realm=whole+site
compassrose
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To be honest, I know of lots places that I could buy (if I had the money - I'm broke right now) that use septic systems have electricity/water and I could park the bus on. Not in towns or cities. Rural. All back east in the South.
Part of the comments on this thread reminds me of the "you can't park a skoolie in a private RV park". Just as factually based and just as true.
Part of the comments on this thread reminds me of the "you can't park a skoolie in a private RV park". Just as factually based and just as true.
Cammalu
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Nobody seems to bother with anything around here. People buy hunting land all the time and build structures and pull in campers and whatever. I put this one at my pond and even stuck in a graveyard and buried my hubby there a couple years ago. I'm in rural western KY and I'll be taking off traveling as soon as my broken leg is healed sufficiently. I have to pick out a Class B and have been researching while I'm stuck in bed.
I hate when people trash their properties and I bought around a hundred acres about eight years ago and the whole road in people had been dumping on for years. It took a bulldozer and a jillion trips to the dump to fix all that. There is no excuse as a trip to the dump on Wednesdays is free. It was a beautiful piece of land and I did keep it until my husband passed but I sold it soon afterwards because I didn't want to hassle with poachers, tresspassers and dumpers. The property that I live on is much easier to watch and not as big.
eDJ_
Well-known member
I understand that there can be a lot of tremendous startup cost to building an underground structure. Perhaps
that is why the Semi Underground trend took over such the supporting walls didn't have to be so thick and
the roof could be above ground and built of inexpensive existing technologies with loads of insulation.
But what I saw at an Earthship home I visited in Ohio showed me how inexpensive this stuff could be if one
is resourceful.
The couple who built the Earthship built a large sized Rocket Stove out of a 55 gallon barrel with a 35 gallon
barrel inside it. They had their own chimney design but I think it would be simpler to use a recycled dome lid
off a Weber kettle Grill and work the chimney ducting from that.
The floor had a layout of PEX flexible tubing laid out and street bricks arranged over the top of it as a thermal
mass. The Rocket Stove had a coil of 1 inch soft copper tubing wound around the 35 gallon barrel with a pump connected to one side of the heated floor tubing and the heated side of the coil connected to the other side. Hot swimming pool antifreeze mixed with water 50/50 was circulated through the PEX tubing in the floor
to heat the bricks up about 15 degrees. Then the heat could flow upward into the room to bring it to nearly
70 degrees F.
In the sketch above the supporting wall beside the window could be painted flat black on the side by the
windows and become a thermal mass, known as a "Trombe Wall". So the passive solar effect would charge
during the day time when it is sunny. If it were cloudy rainy weather for a few days the Rocket Stove could
be fired up to heat the floor. This is a very efficient system that burns twigs and small scraps of wood making it unnecessary to have cords of wood chopped and split to use in a wood burning fireplace. The wood burning fire place may actually make the interior too hot too quick. We're only talking a 10 to 15 degree F temperature elevation. This same Rocket Stove could be built with two domestic coils where one would heat
water in a Hot Water tank for showers etc where the other would be used for heating the floor.
Since the Rocket Stove uses so little fuel there won't be too much of a smoke signature from the outdoor
chimney vent.
Below is a sketch of the concept.
Rocket Stove example:
http://prepared-housewives.com/how-to-build-a-rocket-stove-and-impress-the-boys/
This is one of the advantages of such a structure.
Yes there are some expenses to produce such a facility. But after that the heating is very inexpensive. As
for electric, if you drive the Van to town two or three times a week the 6 volt deep cycle batteries would be
charged up so that you will have an electrical supply when you return for that night and the next day or so.
In town you may visit the Gym and work out and shower, shave, and clean up. Possibly do some laundry.
Then some grocery shopping.
One's smart phone could provide the broadband internet and once can visit web sites on the net for
TV programming, Radio/Music, and message board communication.
There are all manners of used plastic Farm tanks that can be had for much less than first issue retail.
I've seen septic tanks built out of some uncommon items such as cemetery vaults. (companies that make
these often produce variations of them for hunting & fishing cabins etc. Then the leach field plastic tubing
needs to be run from it. This would be more than adequate for one or two people in a Tiny Home. These
are generally sold on a cash basis and brought to site and installed in a six foot deep slot. A rental Ditch Witch
will quickly cut out the runs for the leach field. This stuff is usually done by the owner builder in a stealth
manner. The water cistern can be a group of blue plastic rain barrels in the back of the room.
Basically, I'm talking about a functional shell similar to a solar heated garage. The Van contains the home
element. In cold weather the solar Trombe Wall and Rocket Stove heated floor would provide for heating
inexpensively. In warm summer the interior would naturally be around 56 degrees F. Just a little solar
heating would adjust the interior to one's own comfort zone.
Lastly, an "Air to Air" heat exchanger or room dehumidifier may be luxuries items that could run a few minutes each hour. It would assure a livable environment in the most extreme weather conditions.
If I were to do this I'd want to find some property where there is a bottom beside the road or high way
so that I could grow some agricultural product on it. I'd have a dirt road into the hills where the Solar Garage would be located out of sight from the road. Then I'd try to get an Agricultural tax exemption on the property. If possible list myself as an "absentee owner" living in another state if that's possible.
that is why the Semi Underground trend took over such the supporting walls didn't have to be so thick and
the roof could be above ground and built of inexpensive existing technologies with loads of insulation.
But what I saw at an Earthship home I visited in Ohio showed me how inexpensive this stuff could be if one
is resourceful.
The couple who built the Earthship built a large sized Rocket Stove out of a 55 gallon barrel with a 35 gallon
barrel inside it. They had their own chimney design but I think it would be simpler to use a recycled dome lid
off a Weber kettle Grill and work the chimney ducting from that.
The floor had a layout of PEX flexible tubing laid out and street bricks arranged over the top of it as a thermal
mass. The Rocket Stove had a coil of 1 inch soft copper tubing wound around the 35 gallon barrel with a pump connected to one side of the heated floor tubing and the heated side of the coil connected to the other side. Hot swimming pool antifreeze mixed with water 50/50 was circulated through the PEX tubing in the floor
to heat the bricks up about 15 degrees. Then the heat could flow upward into the room to bring it to nearly
70 degrees F.
In the sketch above the supporting wall beside the window could be painted flat black on the side by the
windows and become a thermal mass, known as a "Trombe Wall". So the passive solar effect would charge
during the day time when it is sunny. If it were cloudy rainy weather for a few days the Rocket Stove could
be fired up to heat the floor. This is a very efficient system that burns twigs and small scraps of wood making it unnecessary to have cords of wood chopped and split to use in a wood burning fireplace. The wood burning fire place may actually make the interior too hot too quick. We're only talking a 10 to 15 degree F temperature elevation. This same Rocket Stove could be built with two domestic coils where one would heat
water in a Hot Water tank for showers etc where the other would be used for heating the floor.
Since the Rocket Stove uses so little fuel there won't be too much of a smoke signature from the outdoor
chimney vent.
Below is a sketch of the concept.
Rocket Stove example:
http://prepared-housewives.com/how-to-build-a-rocket-stove-and-impress-the-boys/
This is one of the advantages of such a structure.
Yes there are some expenses to produce such a facility. But after that the heating is very inexpensive. As
for electric, if you drive the Van to town two or three times a week the 6 volt deep cycle batteries would be
charged up so that you will have an electrical supply when you return for that night and the next day or so.
In town you may visit the Gym and work out and shower, shave, and clean up. Possibly do some laundry.
Then some grocery shopping.
One's smart phone could provide the broadband internet and once can visit web sites on the net for
TV programming, Radio/Music, and message board communication.
There are all manners of used plastic Farm tanks that can be had for much less than first issue retail.
I've seen septic tanks built out of some uncommon items such as cemetery vaults. (companies that make
these often produce variations of them for hunting & fishing cabins etc. Then the leach field plastic tubing
needs to be run from it. This would be more than adequate for one or two people in a Tiny Home. These
are generally sold on a cash basis and brought to site and installed in a six foot deep slot. A rental Ditch Witch
will quickly cut out the runs for the leach field. This stuff is usually done by the owner builder in a stealth
manner. The water cistern can be a group of blue plastic rain barrels in the back of the room.
Basically, I'm talking about a functional shell similar to a solar heated garage. The Van contains the home
element. In cold weather the solar Trombe Wall and Rocket Stove heated floor would provide for heating
inexpensively. In warm summer the interior would naturally be around 56 degrees F. Just a little solar
heating would adjust the interior to one's own comfort zone.
Lastly, an "Air to Air" heat exchanger or room dehumidifier may be luxuries items that could run a few minutes each hour. It would assure a livable environment in the most extreme weather conditions.
If I were to do this I'd want to find some property where there is a bottom beside the road or high way
so that I could grow some agricultural product on it. I'd have a dirt road into the hills where the Solar Garage would be located out of sight from the road. Then I'd try to get an Agricultural tax exemption on the property. If possible list myself as an "absentee owner" living in another state if that's possible.
WriterMs
Well-known member
I had been thinking that someone was going to start an Underground Base Camp thread after Bob mentioned his general thought on living in a semi buried bus at some point in the future. Unless I missed it, no one did.
I dont' really have that much to write on the subject other than to point out the rather large Earthship community near Santa Fe, NM. I think they still give tours of a demo house. It is a whole subdivision west of the Rio Grand Gorge Bridge north of Santa Fe. I think you can even stay for one overnight in the rest area right at the bridge (double check on that as it is info someone told me).
Earthship walls are traditionally made of tires filled with rammed earth and stacked. Huge insulation factor with no wood structure. Some of the homes up there have been there for decades. They even recycle their gray water with indoor water gardens. Google them and see many pics of the VERY fanciful designs of the visible parts.
I borrowed on the premise of these tire-based homes as a housing solution in an earthquake-heavy future for the third book in my series. I don't know if that is sound engineering-wise, but even a sheltered "bunker" garage built this way might be a workable solution to house a mobile rig.
I dont' really have that much to write on the subject other than to point out the rather large Earthship community near Santa Fe, NM. I think they still give tours of a demo house. It is a whole subdivision west of the Rio Grand Gorge Bridge north of Santa Fe. I think you can even stay for one overnight in the rest area right at the bridge (double check on that as it is info someone told me).
Earthship walls are traditionally made of tires filled with rammed earth and stacked. Huge insulation factor with no wood structure. Some of the homes up there have been there for decades. They even recycle their gray water with indoor water gardens. Google them and see many pics of the VERY fanciful designs of the visible parts.
I borrowed on the premise of these tire-based homes as a housing solution in an earthquake-heavy future for the third book in my series. I don't know if that is sound engineering-wise, but even a sheltered "bunker" garage built this way might be a workable solution to house a mobile rig.
compassrose
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WriterMs said:
Philistine! Why don't you bury a van instead.
Really, bury a cargo container. Leave the buses alone.
B and C
Well-known member
compassrose said:
A semi buried bus would allow windows for light, natural ventilation and views. With the right shutters and paint job, it would be very stealthy. A cargo container would offer none of these except stealth.
Brian
DannyB1954
Well-known member
I thought about buying some land just to park on a couple off months a year. I wouldn't need sewage or garbage service. It looks like it would be less hassle to just rent some land now.
I think next summer I will explore the Flagstaff area
I think next summer I will explore the Flagstaff area
He
Half the people here just want "a piece of land", but they are not going to get it. That's because they don't just want "a piece of land." They want particular weather. They want a particular location. They want to be close enough to town for services and shopping and maybe for work. They want to be able to do as they please with no regard for community standards. They want that same piece of land that well off suburbanites who care intensely about image and property values will pay top dollar for so they can build ranchettes on it.
The ugly truth is that once a van or RV dweller settles down, we start acquiring crap. Everyone does it, so dont try to say that you won't. It is human nature.Because we have no room to keep this crap inside, it starts to accumulate outside, usually first in piles and then in random, ramshackle outbuildings. So, property owners who don't what to live next to our crap demand regulations. The politicians they vote into office, who need tax revenue to run their tweon, enact those regulations.
compassrose said:
Half the people here just want "a piece of land", but they are not going to get it. That's because they don't just want "a piece of land." They want particular weather. They want a particular location. They want to be close enough to town for services and shopping and maybe for work. They want to be able to do as they please with no regard for community standards. They want that same piece of land that well off suburbanites who care intensely about image and property values will pay top dollar for so they can build ranchettes on it.
The ugly truth is that once a van or RV dweller settles down, we start acquiring crap. Everyone does it, so dont try to say that you won't. It is human nature.Because we have no room to keep this crap inside, it starts to accumulate outside, usually first in piles and then in random, ramshackle outbuildings. So, property owners who don't what to live next to our crap demand regulations. The politicians they vote into office, who need tax revenue to run their tweon, enact those regulations.
LeeRevell
Well-known member
Burying vehicles and storage containers is potentially very dangerous, not to mention prone to water leakage. It has to be done very carefully, so as to prevent collapse. Sand is HEAVY! And it is very porous, allowing water to drain through. Storage Containers aren't designed for those kinds of loads, and certainly not vehicles with glass windows. I'd rethink this idea. Waterproofing concrete basements is difficult enough.
GotSmart
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I have been studying how to build underground (earth sheltered) houses since I was a kid. It is fairly easy, but there are requirements on doing it safely.
http://inhabitat.com/frank-lloyd-wright-fallingwater-underground-eco-cottages/
One day my solar power underground home will be a reality.
http://inhabitat.com/frank-lloyd-wright-fallingwater-underground-eco-cottages/
One day my solar power underground home will be a reality.
compassrose
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gcal said:
I want a winter place in rural FL (yes rural FL still exists and I do know of places in FL that will let me live how I want to live).
I want a summer place in rural TN (and I do know of places in TN that will let me live how I want to live... used to live in one of those areas)
I want to live about 15-20 minutes from a Sam's Club and decent shopping (yes, still doable at a reasonable price).
I want to have enough money that I can live in the style that I would like to become accustomed to (okay, that's a bit pie in the sky).
compassrose said:
No idea about TN, but with all the baby boomers beginning to retire and look for a place to winter, you'd better get your Florida land, fast to see that your use is grandmothered in. Rural land, now, might not be rural land 5 years from now.
compassrose
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Like I said before, my late husband's sisters & their hubbys are sitting near Ft. White. apparently anything goes there. I have found other places like that too.gcal said:
As for your "rural land" comment... It depends on the area. I was born in FL in 1960. There are still places that is vacant. Unfortunately family tends to live in those places.
