Calypso’s Ogygia .. the Odyssey of the P42

[Calypso]

That Vulcrum 116 sounds great! I'll have to looking into it. But making holes shouldn't make anyone all that nervous. Done properly, you won't ever have an issue with quality material. Skip a step though, you're asking for trouble. Proper support and clean clean clean your surfaces! If you want skylights that don't open, I would suggest cutting and framing the standard 14" hole and getting skylights to fit that. That way, if one day you want a roof fan, no worries, easy replacement. Don't cut out your roof supports! Position holes between those supports. Fans are great for cooking and climate control.

I think it’s recommended to put 2 fans/roof vents in, front and rear? The kitchen and bathroom are in rear (no pun intended).

I had wanted to make a “tunnel or channel” down the center with long skylights. But was worried about cutting roof ribs… even though I’ve seen people frame in to regain the support, it’s never the same is it?

I’ll have to measure the distance between ribs when o go back. Add that to my list .. it’s hard having her away from me as I can’t run out and check and measure when a brainstorm hits.

ibe been looking at the skylights and it seems I don’t have to get the entire frames, but rather build one my own, and they will not open so I should be able to seal it well and not worry about a rubber gasket seal, or whatever it’s called, for a hatch.

okay..
no tunnel of sky.. but maybe pockets of sunshine, rays of light, like stepping stones, just above me. So fan, skylight, skylight, skylight, fan. I think there are 5 zones.

Next is windows.. I hear different things about “non rv” rounded windows … but it’s what they use on food trucks, which I know don’t drive long distances usually. If nothing else I could get house window frames and replace glass with plexiglass or maybe round the corners a bit. I would want those to open but if I got awning style or casement, I wouldn’t have to worry as much as sliders. And awnings crank out are better for sealing.

im looking at getting some 2nd hand corded tools like the grinder which I wouldn’t have much use for after all this. Which means I need a generator... that I can use until I get solar. I think I’ll wait til I hit lower 48 for that as I imagine it’s cheaper. maybe just fabricate a roof rack. I’d like to have the panels connected so that I can angle them up… kind of like you do with lawn chairs. Idk if that’s a silly idea or not. In AK the sun is never right above us so being able to angle things helps a lot.

So many things are cheaper down there In lower 48. I can’t order generators to be delivered as it can’t do air transport and things like skylights or inverters or heaters add an average of $200 for just shipping. I can get some items at the big box stores but theif prices are always more than what is listed or on Amazon.
But Alaska is beautiful, and it’s the price we pay to live here, which is worth the increase… most of the time. It gets me when you pay $200 for shipping and then see it really only cost them $50. Back in the 70’s-80’s I understood, but we are a major global hub for FedEx and UPS now a days.

As always Thank you for your response. I’m sure once the snow melts get some longer days of sunlight and it gets a bit warmer to work in a metal box akin to a refrigerator I’ll be too busy to blab on long posts.

Once I start going my mind will have a set path to travel down and not be filled with possibilities, crazy ideas and such.

 

[Calypso]

re -- stand-still house windows 'cannot possibly, will not ever, worst'
.
2003, we converted a 1996 Ford CF8000 commercial truck to our concept of an ExpeditionVehicle.
.
For windows, we mounted 3612 -- three feet wide by a foot tall -- dual-pane sliders designed for a stand-still house.
We mounted these at our eye-level standing inside, about eight feet above pavement.
.
Twenty-four months twenty-four thousand miles around South America.
Alaska, Panama, all over North and Central America.
Summers up rough logger tracks to remote mountain lakes.
Winters on isolated Baja beaches.
.
We glued our windows into the GRP walls using Vulcum 116 adhesive sealant.
After all this time, the Vulcum 116 remains soft and pliable.
.
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard, our windows are going strong.
.
.
My new signature tag-line:
* Doing it, no guessing about it.
* Real World, no classroom book-learning theories.
* First-hand experience, no second-hand gossip nor rumor.

I appreciate the input for the windows. That makes me feel so much better. The RV ones are so spendy and it’s hard to get clear ones (what’s the point of having a black window?). I did also look at marine windows, not just portholes, but the larger ones we have on fishing boats here. Oddly difficult to find used ones here and the others too expensive.

Im not sure what you mean by 3612 .. do you mean 36”x12”. Now that I type that I think that must be it. I was wanting 2’ high, but I think that’s were there mat be more of the risk others have mentioned.

I think I’d rather crank out so as to not have the visual interruption, like one does with sliders. If I placed them right, I think 12” would probably be fine, but not sure if they have those in crank out awning. I think they do in basement ones but they open on top? We don’t really have basements here so I’m not sure. I’m glad you mentioned double pane as that was a concern for cold/heat.

it sounds like if I do it as you suggest, with using the right sealants I could get the view I want without an expensive specialized RV window, which are kinda small and dank.

I need to take your tagline to heart … “Doing it, not guessing about it”!

thank you,
Caly

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

If you're going to put roof fans in, then yes, having one all the way in front and another all the way in back is good idea. Use one to pull air in, and the other to push air out. The cheaper generic roof vans are garbage, don't even consider them. The Maxxair and Fantastic fans are the way to go. Save up and get a fan that actually does something. Most efficient way to cycle your air and get good air flow. I'd imagine side windows that open will also be good for air flow. But be careful putting too many things on the roof. Leave some room for all those solar panels and camping chairs! And the more windows you install, the lower your insulation will be! Windows, insulation, and roof holes are all heated topics for sure. Good luck!

 

[Calypso]

You are way more organized than I am... I think you're going to be just fine doing this.

I feel scattered. And I have changed my thinking on nearly every aspect, haha. But I only have myself to build it for, which is a new concept for me, so whichever way I go on something, it’s for me and not because this person on YouTube said it’s the best or that person said it’s the stupidest way… and it’s not going to be perfect. 80% rule
I think that’s more what my notebook is for rather than an actual project planner. If that were the case there would be so many change orders!

 

[CosmickGold]

I found putting a fan on the back instead of the roof far better. Even with the fan open and running, pouring rain doesn't join me in the van hardly at all (which was a pleasant surprise). And it helps to have a breeze straight across when drying washed clothes hanging from 60 ceiling hooks.

And for my second fan, I went a totally different route and put this 12v marine bilge air blower through the floor under my desk behind the driver's seat. Boy does it blow air into the van, I'm amazed!!! (But for the power to pump all that air, it also draws five times as much electricity as the fan on the back, about 6 amps. But when the alternative is to drip sweat all over the van from sun and summer heat WHO CARES!!! Mounted in the floor, it sucks up the coolest air from near the ground under the van; and since heat rises, the hottest air is what blows out that rear fan near the ceiling.

(And if you wonder about noise? Yep, pretty loud. I know I can cover it with this sticky roll of car sound insulation; that works amazingly well for something so thin. In addition, I'm getting this flexible duct and lining the inside of it with this inch-thick sheet of sound insulation, hoping it will seriously quiet down the air blowing in. This is yet another experiment.)

 

[Calypso]

View attachment 30778
I found putting a fan on the back instead of the roof far better. Even with the fan open and running, pouring rain doesn't join me in the van hardly at all (which was a pleasant surprise). And it helps to have a breeze straight across when drying washed clothes hanging from 60 ceiling hooks.

And for my second fan, I went a totally different route and put this 12v marine bilge air blower through the floor under my desk behind the driver's seat. Boy does it blow air into the van, I'm amazed!!! (But for the power to pump all that air, it also draws five times as much electricity as the fan on the back, about 6 amps. But when the alternative is to drip sweat all over the van from sun and summer heat WHO CARES!!! Mounted in the floor, it sucks up the coolest air from near the ground under the van; and since heat rises, the hottest air is what blows out that rear fan near the ceiling.

(And if you wonder about noise? Yep, pretty loud. I know I can cover it with this sticky roll of car sound insulation; that works amazingly well for something so thin. In addition, I'm getting this flexible duct and lining the inside of it with this inch-thick sheet of sound insulation, hoping it will seriously quiet down the air blowing in. This is yet another experiment.)

I’m putting my desk behind the drivers seat too. I have to admit I don’t think I have a very good “reading” on how hot it gets down south… like Seattle. 70 here and we’re dying. I’ve been more focused on staying warm. But without A/C I really need to consider how I’m going to cool down. Trying to do research at a hot desk is not fun.

Thanks for the info!

 

[ohbejoyful]

But I only have myself to build it for

This is some WISDOM right here!

 

[Calypso]

Had a laugh today … yet again coming up to the “what? You’re building it yourself? But you’re a girl.”

This time from the guy that helped me get her and I’m renting a spot from. This whole time he thought I was having him build it. Even though I told him multiple times, on many different ways, I’m building her myself. I have the tools, I have some knowledge and know how to get more, I have the plan and I’m doing the work. It still somehow didn’t register.

I even looked back on my texts and see where I corrected him directly, but nope, he just couldn’t grasp the concept. He 100% was working off the misunderstanding that I was merely going to pay him to design and build it all for me.
He’s a bit flabbergasted and not sure now what to do.

My daughter just laughed and shook her head. I just want to pat him on the head and say “there there sweet boy, don’t worry, I still value you as an individual and what you can contribute to our society.”

 

[LargeMarge]

I appreciate the input for the windows. That makes me feel so much better. The RV ones are so spendy and it’s hard to get clear ones (what’s the point of having a black window?). I did also look at marine windows, not just portholes, but the larger ones we have on fishing boats here. Oddly difficult to find used ones here and the others too expensive.

Im not sure what you mean by 3612 .. do you mean 36”x12”. Now that I type that I think that must be it. I was wanting 2’ high, but I think that’s were there mat be more of the risk others have mentioned.

I think I’d rather crank out so as to not have the visual interruption, like one does with sliders. If I placed them right, I think 12” would probably be fine, but not sure if they have those in crank out awning. I think they do in basement ones but they open on top? We don’t really have basements here so I’m not sure. I’m glad you mentioned double pane as that was a concern for cold/heat.

it sounds like if I do it as you suggest, with using the right sealants I could get the view I want without an expensive specialized RV window, which are kinda small and dank.

I need to take your tagline to heart … “Doing it, not guessing about it”!

thank you,
Caly

Caly,
Windows for stand-still buildings mostly come factory-made in predictable sizes... in my situation, three feet wide by a foot tall.
The standardization allows architects and carpenters to speak one language instead of attempting to translate two foreign dialects.
.
Why do we like our tiny windows?
* Placed high, the incoming light mimics overhead sunlight... and reduces ceiling shadows.
* Nobody sees in unless they are on a mountain next door.
* Little targets for 'debris thrown from roadway'.
* Easy to replace.
* Dual-pane eliminates a significant amount of outside noise.
(Our first stage in our conversion was adhesive-back acoustic insulation against the outer wall.)
.
I think RecreateVehicles windows are fine.
I think our solution works for us.
Let us know if it works for you.
.
A correction:
I wrote '3612' for three feet wide by a foot tall'.
The proper building supply nomenclature for those dimensions -- 3010, three feet wide by a foot tall.
I hope this helps.

 

[Calypso]

Caly,
Windows for stand-still buildings mostly come factory-made in predictable sizes... in my situation, three feet wide by a foot tall.
The standardization allows architects and carpenters to speak one language instead of attempting to translate two foreign dialects.
.
Why do we like our tiny windows?
* Placed high, the incoming light mimics overhead sunlight... and reduces ceiling shadows.
* Nobody sees in unless they are on a mountain next door.
* Little targets for 'debris thrown from roadway'.
* Easy to replace.
* Dual-pane eliminates a significant amount of outside noise.
(Our first stage in our conversion was adhesive-back acoustic insulation against the outer wall.)
.
I think RecreateVehicles windows are fine.
I think our solution works for us.
Let us know if it works for you.
.
A correction:
I wrote '3612' for three feet wide by a foot tall'.
The proper building supply nomenclature for those dimensions -- 3010, three feet wide by a foot tall.
I hope this helps.

Yes! It totally does. I kinda figured the 3612 but now I know it’s common lingo so I can fit in with the cool kids now.

Thank you for giving your reasons regarding size. That makes a lot of sense. I imagine too that with the one foot tall it is not as much at risk to the concerns others have with house windows. I do think they would be easier and cheaper to replace with better availability, even if it just needed to be plexiglass, it’s a rectangle vs curved edges.

I also was planning on the sound deadening and found some stuff that I think fits several functions, but I’m interested in what you use or recommend. My van is loud as … duck… like a lot of ducks. And now’s the time to address it as I’m not tearing it apart later to add more.

I was in the van yesterday, it’s off site, and was trying out height dimensions… I’m not sure I could get a 2’ tall window in unless I wanted to give up a lot of wall space. Interesting how one views things in ones head and then the reality of being in the space. The placement also is good as I don’t have to cut any wall ribs.

Thank you.

 

[Calypso]

Open space/generator/tools

Went to work site yesterday and got the other side down. I ended up with a lot of wood, prime wood 2x3s cut at 18”, yes thank you. Not sure what I’ll do with all the 4x4s. It really was different being in there with them down. I was able to lay out my floor plan and gage heights and such. If you look at the plans… there appears to be steps. That’s my Japanese tansu, which can be put together in several ways.

The picture with my boots would be the view from laying on my bed. I’ll take that. . My new steel toe boots, hard to find for women, and thanks to the discount from my kids working at Duluth trading company I got $170 pair for $30. It was fun to go around kicking things with them. I also had my two helpers (my daughter and my dog, Cody). It’s nice to have extra hands (paws not so much helpful except moral support) and brought a speaker this time which helped me and my overthinking everything and just enjoying the process. All the bolts had to be taken out by hand, as my power tools lost their mojo.

I ordered an EcoFlow Delta Max generator w/ solar from REI. I need it for the worksite. I had to go to the MAX level as they don’t have extra batteries in just the Delta and the next level down was too small. I wanted to have the availability of adding another battery. Costco has a great deal with this generator and solar panels right now, but it’s not available here. I debated between it and duel fuel and decided this was the way to go for me. I don’t want to have to have a gas can or syphon from the gas tank in a pinch. Also I don’t like the loudness of the fuel ones. I figure the sun is free and usually available to some degree. It was a lot of money, but I took it from my power/electrical budget as it will be used later and I might put off upgrading battery bank solar and all that until I hit lower 48s.

I purchased some tools, which I had budgeted for. My poor little 10.5v 15 year olds were okay for about 8 minutes. I stayed with Makita and got their 18v LXT subcompact multi tool, drill/driver set, and circular saw. I have a newer dewalt miter saw, which is one reason for needing the generator. I need a new jigsaw but that will wait. I needed new tools that were my own, I hate borrowing, and are compact to take with me. I’m excited about the multi tool, I’ve wanted one for so long! I have several hundred nails in boards that I wasn’t looking forward to pulling. Now I can just cut them off (yes I know to watch for them when cutting the boards later), it also gives me something to use with the metalwork. I’m wondering if I really need a grinder. That’s something I may borrow. I need to take down the clothing racks and bulkhead, which doesn’t look as easy as I thought.

Moving in the empty space really helped put things in perspective and get my ideas off the page and could kind of lay it out in real space. I had decided to raise the dinette on a platform above the wheel well, which seeing it in person will work out well. It gives me space to either side of the WW for storage and then puts the table height in line with the kitchen counter height. I do have nearly half of the van for the bed/desk area, which I may better utilize depending on my plan for the Murthy bed/desk, and what also I can build into it. The shower area is narrow but I think I have a solution for that as well.

Being in the space also allowed me to get an idea about windows and skylights. I had thought I would want 2’ high windows, but once in the van I found out that 1’ will work better and because I raised the dinette I can have both at the same height and see out equally. They will fit well with the existing ribs and easily framed. One foot windows are cheaper so win win.

Next is taking the ceiling and old insulation down and see the roof. I’m curious what the spacing is for the roof support, as that will determine vents and skylight spacing. I set aside wanting to raise the roof as not being practical for me at this stage due to money as well as skill/ability. I would have to pay for assistance as well as a shop to do it in. As it is, I’m a bit concerned doing anything with the roof outside, But vent/fan and/or skylight holes are much easier covered with a tarp than an entire roof should it take more than a day.

My biggest problem at the moment is cleaning out the inside. There is no water at the worksite. And I wouldn't be able to do it now anyways as not only is it still freezing but it’s a dirt lot with other vehicles and food trailers, so flooding it into a mud pit probably would not be appreciated. I’m not sure if she’ll fit into the self wash magic wands car places or if they would allow interiors to be cleaned. I might be able to bring it to my townhouse but would probably need to provide my neighbors some bribes to not tattle on me. We arent allowed RVs, travel trailers, snow machine trailers, campers, ect. But it’s still technically a work truck. That would also mean I’d have to master my driving skills which I’ve only made it around the work site once… and haven’t attempted backing up. She does have a loud backup warning which I want to disconnect, and get a backup camera… and probably side ones as well.

The person I’m renting the lot from I guess has gotten over his sore butt about not having him build it for me… I had wondered why he had been so nice about helping me find and procure a van. I kept telling him my plans and asked him several times how I could repay him for his time. I guess he figured he would add it to the build cost. Anyway, he’s over it as I’ve actually helped look after the lot, checking it after the windstorms and even found the conex full of tools, machinery, motorcycles, probably well over $100k wide open and no one around, in an area which is prone to theft. It pays to have tenants sometimes. I pay him for the lot space so it’s not like he’s not getting anything from it. And I actually got a bit of respect from him when he said you don’t meet many female GCs. I’m not a general contractor but I didn’t correct him.

Again, if you’re reading this, thank you and I welcome any insight… it’s mainly a way for me to document.

I still go around saying… guess what? I bought a step van! My kids know the routine well.
I’m still surprised at myself and so excited because for me this is building a new future from the rubble of the past.
And doing it my way… and yes I have many variations of the song and sing it often… along with Diana Ross.

 

[Calypso]

Dumb question. Do I do all the plumbing stuff prior to insulation? Are there access boxes or something to run the pipes through to undercarriage tanks that seal up? I have the water all within. 2’x4’ area. So not sure if I rough everything in, run pvc down through flooring, and fresh water fill port on side, and then do sound and insulation. Which seems to be the way, but I’d have to know exactly where my shower and sink drains would be first, correct? And I guess where to hang the grey water tank?

I just need to get the in and out through floor and side, and then later I can decide where to mount heater and pump?
Idk.. I was all into trying to get the right insulation figured out as I was excited to get the floor down, but I feel I’m doing it prematurely. IF I do just forget about exterior plumbing… how easy is it to add in later? If I raise my shower pan I can have drain go into an internal grey tank, but then can I plumb in an external later?

And when do I need to figure out all my plumbing system like water heater, pump (epsar heater can I add it later)?

The sequence of the systems what needs to be determined before insulation and laying sub flooring?

I guess the best question is where is a site that a person with limited knowledge can go to find out this information without a bunch of “selling” items?

Thank you

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

The only dumb questions are the ones not asked...

Oh boy, there are so many ways to go about this. Other people should chime in and offer their opinion. Look at what everyone else has done and then decide what works best for you.

Any penetrations that go through the floor should be pretty much watertight. Don't want leaks coming inside from underneath. They make these awesome pvc fittings called bulkhead fittings. They are threaded on the inside to accept standard plumbing fittings. During my build I measured and marked where all the floor supports are.

So you can have threads on inside and outside to attach anything you want. Secure and supportive for pipes and such. They use them on aquariums, pools, and boats so you know they don't leak!

Drill a hole, insert fitting on one side and tighten the nut down on the other.

Attach your plumbing. They make them in all sizes. Makes it super easy to change things later.

Once you make a hole, thats it, you're not moving it! It can be very stressful. Measure three times and hope you got it right by the last measurement! Sometimes its nice to drill a small pilot hole through to be really sure before any big holes. I don't think anyone puts plumping inside walls. So technically, you can add plumbing anytime you want after you insulate and get walls up. Electric can certainly go in before insulation as it is much more forgiving than pipes. But you can also run electric afterwards, even though it might not look as nice. Electrical cables will end up everywhere! Plumbing is easy to keep in one area. Keep it simple and don't have leaks later. I know all about leaks, and it's terrible! I mounted all my plumbing in one spot below the sink. But one thing I didn't do that I wish I had was install a drain pan under it all in case, actually when, something leaks.

You can't just mount the grey tank anywhere. Factors like undercarriage obstructions, proper pipe pitch, and weight distribution come into play. To a degree, your tank placement might determine where your shower goes. I shower outside so I never had to deal with that decision.

Take some time and measure where all of your support beams and other obstruction are and put them in a build book. Later, after insulation and walls are up, you could have some faith in cutting holes later and not run into serious issues.

I cut in my exterior water fill after insulation and walls were in because I had no idea exactly where it would end up earlier. I used my measurements in my build book and it was super close and almost hit some wiring. Good thing I armored all of that! Drill a pilot hole and stick a screwdriver inside and do some probing before you make the big hole that you can't move or patch back up.

If you're careful and patient you can cut in stuff later on. I would also like to point out that your aluminum skin is very thick. You can drill and tap threads into it and bolt things to it. Another good point is that any holes you make, it's good idea to always have rounded corners. Sharp right angle corners in aluminum is an invitation for cracking. The rounded corners act as a stress relieve for the material. I start the corners off with a hole saw, and then connect them with the jigsaw.

It would be difficult to raise your shower pan to have an inside grey tank right? You only have 6' inside and the shower pipe will need to enter great tank many inches higher than the floor level. They do make electric stick on heaters just for keeping outside tanks from freezing up. Your shower and grey tank scenario will be an interesting one. Curious with what you come up with as I still need to install a grey tank too.

Insulation is a heated debate that I'm not getting involved in great detail. Good thing is that you have a step van with super straight walls and thick walls for any and all kinds of insulation! Stay away from fiberglass, cotton, or cellulose insulation. Vapor barriers? You technically have one already with your aluminum shell? Try to avoid any thermal bridging.

Check the floor and all the corners to make sure you don't have any water leaks before you start insulating. Go outside with a hose and spray areas hard and see where water seeps into. I had many holes and a crack in the weld in my wheel well that I was glad I found beforehand!

What were you thinking about with the floor insulation and finished floor? What kind of heating system do you want? What are all of your plumbing needs that need to go through floor or walls to the exterior?

 

[Calypso]

For insulation I was looking at SliveRboard. It’s 1” R5, for the floor. But I also plan to put sound dampening mats.
So sound mats, 1” silverboard, subflooring, Eco Cork Foam 10 in 1 underlayment, heating mats, finish floor. Right?

I was thinking of using the same boards for ceiling and walls? I’m not sure, I’d also put sound mats, then on the walls I could have more insulation to up the R factor, if needed. I’m not sure what a good r factor is for a metal shell.

Since I don’t have water on-site I had planned on using the nighttime flashlight method.

I’ll have to remember the tip about rounded corners in skin. The windows I’m planning are right angled, but I can cut skin hole rounded and my framing square.

I need to find out where I can put a grey tank it sounds before I solidify my shower placement. I was curious about how to put my fresh/grey water tanks as fluid does have a lot of weight and I do want fairly large capacity.

Thank you.
Caly

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

The floor is probably the least important thing to insulate. Not sure using silverboard is best for the floor. It is styrofoam, which means it could hold moisture and I don't think it has high compression strength. Thin XPS with high compression strength would probably be best for the floor. You can really go thick on the insulation on your walls. Not sure how thick silverboard comes, but it should work great if you can get it at a good price. Electric floor heat will only work if you run generator or plug into the grid.

Water will creep into places light won't go. You don't want to find leaks later after the build, it will ruin everything and you'll have mold!

The rounded corners don't have to be huge. A 3/8" drill bit should be enough to reduce stress in the corners.

Yep, grey tanks will be heavy. You'll have to mount them to the structural floor beams under your floor, not your side skirts.

 

[Calypso]

Well, I kinda fingered not on the side skirts… skirts have a tendency to fall off.

The lifted shower I was only thinking to get gravity clearance… and I’d just sit as one has to do that to shave anyways. Oh wait… I’ll be away from society so maybe that’s no longer a requirement.

I’m funny this morning.

I only want one other fuel with me either propane or diesel but not both, too much space taken up. More different types of systems, more things to go wrong, and more to have to learn. I need a simple comparable system, so I only need to carry one type of tools and items for fixes, and I can have a cohesive knowledge of them all…If that makes sense.

I’m taking down the bulkhead that’s there now as it’s only sliding plywood on a strange track, and is set back into the cargo area, which is then lost space. I also want the light that comes from the cab, as that’s where my desk is, where I’ll be spending a lot of time. But, not having a bulkhead greatly impacts the insulation and interior climate control. I know insulated curtains aren’t going to make much difference. I have some idea about it, I just need to workout the details.

I’m sure people have their opinions, and can think I’m doing the “x and y problem”, but I have a way of finding my own balance, adjusting what I need to within myself to meet my objectives, or adjust my objectives. There is never one solution, and not all solutions meet the needs of all peoples. I appreciate all the information you provide to help in that. I might want to have all the light and all the insulation, which is not possible, and I will have to compromise on both to have an acceptable part of each. Or in the process I’ll find my actual needs are different than my current theoretical needs.

The price of these heaters is insane, and it makes me weary of the $200 knockoffs. I think there are some that can tap into the gas tank, not diesel which would mean I could have propane. The less I have dependency on electricity, such as fridge, stove, the less dependent on solar, which means less panels, and I can have a system that will work throughout the year and in northern areas where/when solar is limited.

This takes me back to the first question I had asked myself over a month ago about infloor hydronic heating using an Epsar for heat, hot water, and floor heating which is a bit more complicated but at least it’s all one system… it’s all just a great big loop, like the circle of life just a bit more maddening. (At times ).

On a happy note, some of my new generator and new tools are coming in… and it’s so flipping exciting. First, my steel toed boots that are so fun to kick things with, and soon glorious new beefcake 18v/36v cordless tools to take over for my 10.8v old gals. Now I can charge batteries on-site, and run any corded tools/units I may have… and a radio. Still have an issue with no water on-site. So no pressure washing or using it to find leaks unless I can bring in water… maybe I should get my water tanks now to use and transport water.

It’s a super sunny beautiful day here… high of 36F with low winds. This is a day that reminds me I do want to be able to explore winter areas. So beautiful and crisp and perfect weather, even can go out with short sleeves if hiking up on the mountain/glacier… with sunglasses and sunscreen. Daylight is getting up to 9 1/2 hours, a gain of over 5 mins today!

 

[LargeMarge]

Here is my 'dumb answer'...
.
Hx:
Over about a half-century of full-time live-aboard Permanent Travelers, plus delivering RecreateVehicles manufacturer-to-dealer and dealer-to-shows, we learned to pare everything to the minimum.
.
Accordingly, I will toss some examples your way.
See if anything 'sticks'...
.
We avoid frozen plumbing, noisy pumps, leaks.
How?
We avoid plumbing.
.
With our rear entry, with its deck porch and roof, our wet-zone is outside our residence.
We cook on the porch or on a picnic-table.
We shower on the porch or a few paces away.
.
Our water system:
We carry water in stainless-steel five-gallon retired Pepsi® kegs.
Our standard load for the rig is seven (7) kegs -- thirty-five gallons -- and we have space for more.
In the toy-hauler I fabricated on a similar commercial chassis, we can carry dozens of spare kegs.
.
Advantages:
* Modular -- add or subtract kegs as needed
* Trans-portable -- one can go to the picnic-table/campfire or loaned to a caravan chum
* Seperable -- a couple-three can go to town for re-fill while the others are used in camp
* Isolation -- if one gets stanky, the others can be used... and used to clean the offender.
.
These kegs are designed to be pressurized.
To the inlet, we attach a 12v bicycle tire pump for a quick puff.
To the outlet, we attach a hose with a spritzer for a stand-still house kitchen sink.
.
For hot water, we have a dedicated three-gallon 'Torpedo' keg, a miniature version of the standard five-gallon.
To heat water for dishes or a shower, we use a 'sous vide' circulation heater designed for holding cooking water at a set temperature.
One of our brainiac caravan chums calculated a shower requires about fifteen minutes of mid-day photovoltaic to re-fill our bank.
.
So...
Should you install plumbing prior to insulating?
.
Our insulation:
Against the outer wall, we used adhesive-back acoustic.
A gap, then one-inch pink-board.
Another air-gap, then two-inch foil-side poly.
On the GRP floor of the commercial box, we laid one-inch pink-board.
Next floor layer... half-inch marine plywood painted on all surfaces to seal.
Our visible floor is a bamboo plank perimeter with slate in the center.
.
Heated floor?
On home-built forums, folk would probably come to blows over the disadvantages of hydro over electric and diesel-fired over ducted wood-stove.
We wear socks.
.
For heating:
For our build in 2003, we acquired three Wave 3 catalytic heaters.
Why three?
We were certain we would freeze an untimely death if the weather got below 68°f.
Our experience -- above about 40°f, we rarely use one of the three.
With our insulation plus our dual-pane windows, our interior stays comfy.
'Comfy'?
Most of our activities are outside, so we are acclimatized to cooler weather.
If we are acclimated to 50°f, a 60°f interior seems downright toasty.
.
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard, two of our three Wave 3 heaters are new, never used.
.
Your plumbing:
If I was me, I might toss in some car-camping gear, go have fun.
I think I would allow the conversion to evolve organically.
.
On skoolie and other DIY home-made forums, we see folks attempting to duplicate a stand-still house inside a vehicle.
This risks the possibility of trying to force the adventure to fit the conversion.

 

[Calypso]

Here is my 'dumb answer'...
.
Hx:
Over about a half-century of full-time live-aboard Permanent Travelers, plus delivering RecreateVehicles manufacturer-to-dealer and dealer-to-shows, we learned to pare everything to the minimum.
.
Accordingly, I will toss some examples your way.
See if anything 'sticks'...
.
We avoid frozen plumbing, noisy pumps, leaks.
How?
We avoid plumbing.
.
With our rear entry, with its deck porch and roof, our wet-zone is outside our residence.
We cook on the porch or on a picnic-table.
We shower on the porch or a few paces away.
.
Our water system:
We carry water in stainless-steel five-gallon retired Pepsi® kegs.
Our standard load for the rig is seven (7) kegs -- thirty-five gallons -- and we have space for more.
In the toy-hauler I fabricated on a similar commercial chassis, we can carry dozens of spare kegs.
.
Advantages:
* Modular -- add or subtract kegs as needed
* Trans-portable -- one can go to the picnic-table/campfire or loaned to a caravan chum
* Seperable -- a couple-three can go to town for re-fill while the others are used in camp
* Isolation -- if one gets stanky, the others can be used... and used to clean the offender.
.
These kegs are designed to be pressurized.
To the inlet, we attach a 12v bicycle tire pump for a quick puff.
To the outlet, we attach a hose with a spritzer for a stand-still house kitchen sink.
.
For hot water, we have a dedicated three-gallon 'Torpedo' keg, a miniature version of the standard five-gallon.
To heat water for dishes or a shower, we use a 'sous vide' circulation heater designed for holding cooking water at a set temperature.
One of our brainiac caravan chums calculated a shower requires about fifteen minutes of mid-day photovoltaic to re-fill our bank.
.
So...
Should you install plumbing prior to insulating?
.
Our insulation:
Against the outer wall, we used adhesive-back acoustic.
A gap, then one-inch pink-board.
Another air-gap, then two-inch foil-side poly.
On the GRP floor of the commercial box, we laid one-inch pink-board.
Next floor layer... half-inch marine plywood painted on all surfaces to seal.
Our visible floor is a bamboo plank perimeter with slate in the center.
.
Heated floor?
On home-built forums, folk would probably come to blows over the disadvantages of hydro over electric and diesel-fired over ducted wood-stove.
We wear socks.
.
For heating:
For our build in 2003, we acquired three Wave 3 catalytic heaters.
Why three?
We were certain we would freeze an untimely death if the weather got below 68°f.
Our experience -- above about 40°f, we rarely use one of the three.
With our insulation plus our dual-pane windows, our interior stays comfy.
'Comfy'?
Most of our activities are outside, so we are acclimatized to cooler weather.
If we are acclimated to 50°f, a 60°f interior seems downright toasty.
.
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard, two of our three Wave 3 heaters are new, never used.
.
Your plumbing:
If I was me, I might toss in some car-camping gear, go have fun.
I think I would allow the conversion to evolve organically.
.
On skoolie and other DIY home-made forums, we see folks attempting to duplicate a stand-still house inside a vehicle.
This risks the possibility of trying to force the adventure to fit the conversion.

I don’t think your answers were dumb at all.
You make many good points and things to think about/consider.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

What is more readily available to you as an auxiliary fuel, diesel or propane? If having no bulkhead, I would look into insulating the cab as best you can. Insulating will help with all the noise too. Anyone who drives a step van knows about the noise. Will be difficult to seal all the air gaps. But a curtain will help. And definitely insulated window covers. If you can make good use out of a hydronic system, go for it. But if you just need air heat, don't bother with the extra cost and complexity of a hydronic setup. I'd still recommend going light on the floor stuff, and pack more insulation in your ceiling. I like the suggestion of wearing socks, haha.

Oh and on battery powered tools, stick to one battery brand/system, no matter how tempting a deal could be on some other brand that isn't compatible with your current battery system. The bulk of your battery tool system is the batteries! Have two batteries that work with all your tools.

 

[Calypso]

What is more readily available to you as an auxiliary fuel, diesel or propane? If having no bulkhead, I would look into insulating the cab as best you can. Insulating will help with all the noise too. Anyone who drives a step van knows about the noise. Will be difficult to seal all the air gaps. But a curtain will help. And definitely insulated window covers. If you can make good use out of a hydronic system, go for it. But if you just need air heat, don't bother with the extra cost and complexity of a hydronic setup. I'd still recommend going light on the floor stuff, and pack more insulation in your ceiling. I like the suggestion of wearing socks, haha.

Oh and on battery powered tools, stick to one battery brand/system, no matter how tempting a deal could be on some other brand that isn't compatible with your current battery system. The bulk of your battery tool system is the batteries! Have two batteries that work with all your tools.

Thank you.