Buying Land

[rruff]

This was one sort of "community" I found appealing and avoided any joint ownership issues. Not that I am necessarily against joint ownership. I can certainly see that larger pieces of land with more informal site distribution might require that. But I am putting this forward as thinking fodder.

I've been looking in Apache Co, just over the line from Show Low, and there are a ton of 1 acre lots! I didn't realize it, because I always searched for bigger parcels. There are many under $10k, not far from the highway, and about 15 miles to Show Low. If that appeals to you, it looks like an easy way to go. He should have a lot info regarding what is necessary, but I don't think it's anything beyond septic.

Big parcels which are mostly farther from town are ~$40k for 40 acres.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...stVisible":true,"mapZoom":13,"pagination":{}}

 

[SLB_SA]

I just watched Bob's video I Bought LAND as a VAN Life HOME BASE! Should YOU? and looked at land.com for fun. One option listed was Includes Mineral Rights and this made me wonder; how would Bob feel if he doesn't own mineral rights (MR) and the MR owner shows up one day to start mining, drilling, etc.?

 

[rruff]

I think a lack of mineral rights is pretty typical. It means that you can't mine or drill yourself. It doesn't mean that the owner of the mineral rights can just come and start mining or drilling on your land! You'd have to sell or rent to them before they could do that. This varies, but that's typically how it works... I think.

 

[Gr8ful]

It's my understanding here in MI if the state ever owned the land they retained the MRs like the Upper Peninsula but we did buy a farm the previous owner had petitioned & got them back. If MRs are purchased taxes must be paid & kept up or they can be lost.

 

[dreamrunnerjt]

When I bought land I made sure to ask the realtor if my purchase included them. Technically you could be prevented from drilling a water well if you do not own mineral rights.

 

[Morgana]

Here are a couple of good resources on mineral rights:
Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mineral_rights
Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/mineral-rights.asp
From a quick skim of the top page of each, it looks like the laws vary from state to state. Without digging deeper, I couldn't see what would happen if, say, the mineral rights owner wanted to drill and the surface rights owner didn't want them to. At least, I didn't see any obvious, quick guarantee that the surface rights owner would get their way in a case like that. There might be some answers there if you keep looking.
I like these two sources (Cornell Law and Investopedia) as a first stop when looking for this kind of info. They don't always have the answers, but they have a lot and they seem pretty solid.

 

[maki2]

Hopefully when someone makes a land purchase they can afford to pay for a title insurance search that includes items such as mineral rights claims on the property.

But I am sure there are articles on websites that tell how to do your own title searches for such issues. Mineral rights are publicly filed documents. As are water rights, right of way access including right of way for utility lines including gas pipe lines as well as electricity and communication lines.

 

[rruff]

When I bought land I made sure to ask the realtor if my purchase included them. Technically you could be prevented from drilling a water well if you do not own mineral rights.

In the west it's extremely unusual for a land purchase to include mineral rights. Everybody drills water wells, and nobody has a mining or drilling operation come and take over their land without compensation.

 

[Gr8ful]

I've never seen someone else owning mineral rights stop the landowner from drilling a well.

 

[wayne49]

Water rights over and above normal household usage are a different issue than mineral rights. It comes up in Pahrump from time to time. Water rights are often mentioned in real estate ads for larger parcels.

Recently, a Canadian mining corp attempted to start up a Lithium operation between Pahrump and Amargosa Valley. The Canucks thought that "Let's Go Lithium" was a cool name. Seriously, that was the name they came up with. Maybe the project was designed to fail.

Lithium processing water usage would have affected the water levels in the nearby Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge. Strange though that the US agency that administers Ash Meadows, United States Fish and Wildlife Service, was silent about the issue.

A month ago. I was riding down CA-127 and I saw pair of geese heading east from the Death Valley area towards Ash Meadows and its wetlands.

Growing up in Minnesota seeing migrating geese was common, in the Mojave not so common.

 

[Onyons]

Hello, I have been looking for property that has minimal restrictions. This is what I have learned. A lot of companies selling land have "Embellished" what can be done with the property they have listed.
So, I starting calling the zoning office for what is allowed and to check what zoning the land has. I tell them that I am doing due diligence and research before buying the property. I give the parcel number and they tell me what the land can be used for. I also ask if their county has un-restricted land. I have been able to cross a lot of areas off my list by doing this.

 

[rruff]

I also ask if their county has un-restricted land.

I don't know where you are looking, but I've been looking around AZ lately. Pretty sure there is no such thing as unrestricted, but Ag zoning would typically have the least restrictions. And if the county enforces building codes, then you need to find out what those are as well. If you are clear on what you want to do, that's a good start at least.

 

[Gr8ful]

Also ask about living in an RV without building anything as many places will allow RV living while building a house but not otherwise. I bought a runway lot at Gaylord & would have had to build a house before starting the hanger. A few places have no zoning but are far & few between. Check the Sq footage a house needs to be & NEVER buy property in a HOA.

 

[RonDean]

Also ask about living in an RV without building anything as many places will allow RV living while building a house but not otherwise. I bought a runway lot at Gaylord & would have had to build a house before starting the hanger. A few places have no zoning but are far & few between. Check the Sq footage a house needs to be & NEVER buy property in a HOA.

I know there are many horror stories about HOAs, and I am sure most are true and deserved. I think most are suburban tracks. However, that fellow with a you tube site about his land in Az (can't remember which offhand) said he belongs to an HOA that provides a community well for the members. From what I gathered, it was NOT one of those that we usually hear about.

My biggest concern is where the cost of septic exceeds the cost of the land. Especially when composting and using graywater in an arid region makes much more sense. It's like there must be someone in the planning dept on the take.

 

[bullfrog !]

New construction requires permits and inspections for utilities at a minimum in most every situation and those costs need to be considered. At least in Arizona over 1 acre of property in a GR-1 zone opens up many more options for use which you may need to do in order to afford to buy it. Not only should you avoid HOAs in my opinion but check the title for things like CCRs which are restrictions written into the title often when property is subdivided. We looked for several years and found nothing that suited our needs anywhere near our financial assets. We ended up buying a house and using AirBnb to increase our assets to a point we could afford to buy a property that met our needs while paying pretty much for itself by AirBnbing. It is risky but it worked for us. Good Luck!

 

[Gr8ful]

We looked at composting toilets 40 years ago @ $1200 so we went with an outhouse at the 1st remote cabin which is still legal here & not smelly if done right. Could you just use a drain field for the gray water & a composting toilet. Where the cabin was we had an association just to keep the roads in, roads only NOT like a HOA. We chipped in $50 per yr per every 10 acres. That worked fine but it wasn't a HOA. Good luck!

 

[rruff]

My biggest concern is where the cost of septic exceeds the cost of the land. Especially when composting and using graywater in an arid region makes much more sense.

I'm pretty sure you can do alternative waste treatment in Apache County and others, but getting that approved and inspected may cost a fair amount... and be way more work.

If this is the guy you were thinking of... I think he said it cost $8600 for the septic? And that was with 3 dump stations. I don't know if that means 3 people can use it... but it sounds like it. If you are low budget there are lots of ways to cooperate with other people to reduce your costs.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^most single family septic systems are sized for four family members I believe something like 50 gallons a day. If you coordinate your dumps it might be possible similar to a two bathroom house with a washer on wash day. The system still has to be sized to accommodate the number of gallons put in them no matter how many dump stations. Numbers I’ve seen mentioned are between $5,000 to $15,000 for a single family system to be installed.

 

[rruff]

You could have a bunch of RV/camper dwellers using one septic. They could share a water tank, too... if hauling water. That's usually priced by the 2,000 gal truck load. Put the septic and leach field on the low side of the property, and the water tank on the high side.

 

[rruff]

This guy claims Apache County allows an alternative septic that costs half what a normal one does: https://frugaloffgrid.com/blogs/fru...county-arizona-isnt-telling-you-about-permits