Buying Land

[RonDean]

Hauling water and fuel in and trash back out an hour each way gets to be a real pain especially if a portion is over a dirt road, even a well maintained dirt road. The expensive vehicle maintenance eventually catches up with you. After several seasons at Caballo Loco where we didn’t make many trips in we chose to stay longer periods closer to town on a paved roads.

Yes, I can see that. And I appreciate you sharing your experience. It would be nice not to have to think about such issues at all. But, like so many things, I still regard this as a balancing act between cost and convenience. What any of us can or are willing to tolerate will be different. That might change once I try it, but right now I would like to try out the off-grid option - especially if I can save money doing it.

 

[Malamute]

All of the costs associated with developing land have gone up, it may depend on where as to how much. The septics I had done when i was building were in the $3500 to 5k range, I know they are more now here but dont know how much. Regs changes since the last time I did one.

My contractor contact in Az told me its far simpler to buy something already existing even a mobile, than getting all the permits squared away on a new construction. How much different depends on things like floodplain, how the soil perks, anf other factors. water availability can be an issue in some areas also, some places are limiting new building permits because they have no source of water.

Ive done the living far out on dirt roads, plenty of vehicle maintenance, rebuilding front ends etc repeatedly, having to drive to town in bad conditions for appointments or groceries or whatever, Im pretty tired of all that. Ive become soft and wimpy living in a town off and on the past few years and am willing to admit it. The majority of my so-called adult life has been doing that kind of thing, to include nomading. My nomading aspirations now are seasonal only, and I plan to camp comfortably when I do, and be where I want to be. If I can find an old fixer-upper mobile or shack of a house in the Verde in Az on a small lot thats not insanely priced, Ill be looking hard at it.

 

[RonDean]

Dang it! I was aiming at a "like" but flinched or was not careful enough and accidentally clicked reply. Now I have to actually reply to clear this from my browser. So...consider your post LIKED.
But since I'm here anyway, I do think I'll put existing permits already in place on my good to have list.

 

[Malamute]

I forgot to mention, in my area, pre-existing outhouses are grandfathered in, new construction allows them, but they have to be on a tank or vault, basically a septic tank with no baffle. I had the top cast with a hole for a 5 gal bucket to use as a riser, a 3 or 4" vent, and offset it so the outhouse was towards the front and I built my power shed on the back half to house my gen and solar batteries.

Yes, its more costly than just digging a hole, but was much less than a true septic, and met county or state code, so I just went with it. Just me, it may have taken a couple lifetimes to fill a 1000 gal tank.

The local guy that made septic tanks would cast one however you wanted. In that same cabin I didnt have a well yet, so had another tank made and I set it under the cabin inside the foundation wall with an access door on top and tubes to the inlet and outlet water lines. I pressured it up with an RV pump, and had a hand pump (aka pitcher pump) for next to the kitchen sink. I never ended up putting the pitcher pump in. When I got a well, I didnt want to spend the extra money for a 12v deep well pump (well was 420 ft), so got the 240v one for about 1/5 the cost and only ran it with the generator and filled the cistern with it, then could do the cabin use off the cistern. Id also take a shower while the pump was running to reduce the cistern use and solar batteries. I think the cistern was 500 gallon. I had a fill port outside and could run thee well output directly into it on demand.

Visual media added for post enhancement. Cabin with outhouse and cistern.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^ if you don’t mind, what county and state was this in?

 

[camperdan]

The problem is that typical quotes I have seen on traditional sepic systems often exceed the cost of the land and other improvements that I am looking at. Maybe paying $10K to $20K for septic is OK when one is buying and building something costing >$100,000. But it's enough to make one decide "it's not worth it" for what I have in mind.

So... the biggest part of my planning will probably be how to deal with these regulations and staying as "off-grid" as possible. I am willing to deal with the problems and requirements of being off-grid which still allow me to buy and own a habitable hunk of land by myself or with a group in a semi-acceptable location. I DO plan to learn and abide by whatever local requirements there are, but those requirements might also determine what I can consider acceptable.

RE: septic systems. Ran across a DIY book on septic systems. Highly acclaimed by a civil engineer who has
done a lot of that type of work. DIYsepticsystem by Ron Jensen

 

[RonDean]

RE: septic systems. Ran across a DIY book on septic systems. Highly acclaimed by a civil engineer who has
done a lot of that type of work. DIYsepticsystem by Ron Jensen

I looked at the reviews and it looks interesting. Something to remember for when or if it is needed. I'd like to know if his plans would be approved by the applicable local authority. When doing a search on Amazon Kindle I have also found several other options as well. I tend to prefer digital books over paper books since hitting the road. Libraries get heavy.

 

[wanderlust]

Long reddit about living in a van on own land, and land regulations

 

[jacqueg]

Surprised Escapees would do that.

Money. It probably wouldn't pencil out for them if there were fewer units on that particular piece of land.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^Arizona allows 10 RVs per acre, when you are trying to serve a need you do the best you can. These are not resorts but a community trying to help people on the road have a home base.

 

[jacqueg]

^^^Arizona allows 10 RVs per acre, when you are trying to serve a need you do the best you can. These are not resorts but a community trying to help people on the road have a home base.

That's all true. But it still needs to pencil out somehow, unless the community has some kind of sugar daddy.

 

[rruff]

I've stumbled across another series of videos from a nomad buying land. This one is Nomadic Fanatic

That's in Apache Co. I guess, quite close to Show Low. Looks great! For someone wanting a place with a good year round climate, access to medical and shopping, and minimal code hassles, that is about as good as it gets.

He has a lot of other videos where he's developing the land. Do you know if he's said anything about codes?

 

[user 22017]

Here is another video about buying land from a channel I follow. He is checking out land in Arizona, as well.

 

[Gr8ful]

10 RVs per acre (208'x208') is way too close for me. I also used crushed concrete from redoing I-94 as it has the fines in it & turns almost into concrete again where crushed rock always keeps moving & doesn't turn into a solid again. Is he going to rent, long lease or sell RV lots, anyone know? In good old Michigan you can get good water almost anywhere you drill & you're never over 3 miles from a natural body of water also surrounded by 1/5 of the entire world's freshwater. They claimed that if all the states were seperate all Michigan would need to do is grow citrus in greenhouses to have everything needed.

 

[rruff]

Here is another video about buying land from a channel I follow. He is checking out land in Arizona, as well.

That's in Mohave Co. As he mentions and others have said, long term camping requires an approved septic... but that's all. At least it's allowed!

Year round further east at 4-5k ft would be a nicer climate, and at least some junipers. You are going to have ~40F swing between summer and winter highs anyway... 50-90... 60-100? It's dry and sunny all year.

I think in most places you'd be able to subdivide a large parcel. If someone wanted to create a community, that would probably be a good thing to look at. How big does each need to be, etc...

 

[camperdan]

^^^Arizona allows 10 RVs per acre, when you are trying to serve a need you do the best you can. These are not resorts but a community trying to help people on the road have a home base.

Thanks for that encouraging bit of info, RE "up to 10 RVs on a piece of land in AZ" . Would you mind sharing your sources of this info. It seems to be pretty liberal, but I would like to follow up on this. Thx

 

[rruff]

Thanks for that encouraging bit of info, RE "up to 10 RVs on a piece of land in AZ" . Would you mind sharing your sources of this info. It seems to be pretty liberal, but I would like to follow up on this. Thx

I'm certain that is for a zoned and coded RV park. Otherwise it's prohibited in Cochise Co, where Benson is... except for a temporary permit while you build a house.

 

[rruff]

I just looked up Cochise and they have a few different zonings that would allow RV parks. Of course someone would need to buy and develop it to code if it's bare land, and then rent spots to their best friends R-36 would probably be the most sensible as that means 1 unit per 36,000 sq ft (which is about 0.8 acre), and more likely to be on "quiet" land, and cheaper.

https://media.bullseyeplus.com/Documents/Listings/1096299/02038-22012-2023090823345846300.pdf

This map shows the zoning in the county. The area around St David looked promising as it is quite close to Benson and not far to Tucson and at least it isn't next to the freeway. There is some outside Sierra Vista as well, which is a large (40k?) full service town that is pretty nice.

https://gis-cochise.opendata.arcgis.../explore?location=32.008075,-109.664642,11.94

Most of Cochise is zoned RU-4 which means 4 acre minimum lot size. Someone could buy a large lot and subdivide it to that size, but you would not be able to camp on it indefinitely... would need whatever the minimum spec is for a house... which I don't think is much (296 sq ft actually), but you would need an approved septic. They have an opt-out clause on code that allows you a lot of freedom otherwise. So I think a shed with a toilet and gray water hooked up to septic would suffice. Not too onerous IMO. Plus while you are building, you can camp with I think a 6 month renewable permit. They keep trying to make it more restrictive. There is a Cochise Co opt out facebook page where you can find the latest.

Mohave and Apache Co are probably a little easier in this respect, but Cochise has a more moderate warmer climate (~60F-93F @4k ft), and on the west side at least is closer to bigger towns and hospitals.

 

[bullfrog !]

Thanks for that encouraging bit of info, RE "up to 10 RVs on a piece of land in AZ" . Would you mind sharing your sources of this info. It seems to be pretty liberal, but I would like to follow up on this. Thx

It in the end is up to the zoning department or board in your county and the courts. Here in Tucson a local land owner that owned 85 undeveloped acres for years attempted to build an RV park that bordered the Saguaro National Park but was denied because the neighborhood did not want the increased traffic. Most counties allow for developing RV parks and have minimum requirements listed in their zoning laws but getting approval is the sticking point as many times the land is not previously zoned to do so. Even subdividing land requires your neighbors permission in most cases which is then reviewed. I believe even installing a septic system in some cases requires you notify your neighbors.

 

[rruff]

^Surely if it was zoned for RVs already, he wouldn't have been denied? I'm not at all surprised he was denied if he was trying to get the zoning changed.