Buying Land

[Gr8ful]

If you do a Sub S Corp you get a limited # of shares so if you have 10 owners issue 10 shares of stock & the stock can only be sold back to the S Corp. So you have 1 deed to the S Corp & each owner gets 1 share of stock.

 

[RonDean]

If you do a Sub S Corp you get a limited # of shares so if you have 10 owners issue 10 shares of stock & the stock can only be sold back to the S Corp. So you have 1 deed to the S Corp & each owner gets 1 share of stock.

I have some experience in RE from having a license in two states but also know enough to seek professional help in the local or state when necessary. I "think" S-Corp would certainly help with financial and /or tax issues. But I also know that different states have different rules on multiple owners holding land title. Lots to consider there, but perhaps too early in the process to fret too much about now. I think we are more in the stage of "putting feelers out" for appropriate areas and specific land and seeing how many might be interested in some sort of community.

For example, there could be (pick a number) people holding ownership in 1 larger piece of land (with appropriate safeguards) or individuals each buying a small lot nearby and agreeing to work on common projects or some other such. Just spit balling here.

 

[camperdan]

At one time I might have considered utilities to be a major problem and/or cost. But I have been learning how to booddock long enough and technology continues to improve to the point that off-grid is now much easier to accomplish. My remaining concern on this subject would be local or county requirements. My next issue would be water. Is a well or harvesting rainwater for non-potable uses locally acceptable? Depending on distance and access, trucking in drinking water might be OK. Next, I have been told that in some areas a DIY 55gal septic is allowed - but not everywhere. I think I would go with a DIY composting setup before an actual outhouse.

I am thinking that with many of us, just a place to legally "circle the wagons" would get us by for a short period of time.

So good to see responses and stories. I like the 'circle the wagons' approach. Assuming everything else is in order (zoning, available water... probably delivery...)
this could be one 5-acre square at 466' on each side (which may be able to accommodate 3-4 rigs, or a few adjacent
2-5 acre plots). I like the idea in the video featuring Brian, of camping 2-3 days on a prospective plot to check out the day-to-day traffic, noise etc. I also like the idea of compost toilets. They are affordable, easy to maintain, can replace conventional RV toilets, and fit in a van. This approach might meet the requirements of some counties, in lieu of a leech field.

I still plan to map out Arizona at 4-5000 ft and use landwatch.com to get a feel for what is out there now. This would be just
for sale by owner, some offering terms and interest rates. From my experience living on one acre for a few years, there is a respectful spacing. Two acres should be within most peoples' means and would be even better. Two other factors that are important are signal strength, reasonable distance to medical and basic supplies. Car pooling would be a common thing, I think.
We look forward to hearing more about how Escapees handles the many aspects that can be tricky, from those that can research that . There is one Escapees park near Congress, AZ at 3000 ft, which is quite affordable. I just wonder also if there is an age rule for RVs. That is not a bad elevation when one has electric and is minutes from essential shopping. And
a short trip to gain 2000 ft in elevation toward Prescott.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^There is also an Escapee’s at Benson Arizona you might like to visit.

 

[RonDean]

^^^There is also an Escapee’s at Benson Arizona you might like to visit.

The Escapee contracts might be informative but the Escapee parks I have seen look like this>

That's not my idea of where I want to settle down. I would much prefer Camperdan's...
"one 5-acre square at 466' on each side (which may be able to accommodate 3-4 rigs, or a few adjacent
2-5 acre plots)."

 

[RonDean]

As a follow-up, I have been to a fairly nice Escapee park near Yosemite (I use the term "near" somewhat loosely) and for such parks, it's a nice one. It has trees and is in a nice area. But it still doesn't look that much different from many standard RV parks. Below is a map... As you can see, it is fairly crowded. At a minimum, I would want my closest neighbor far enough away to be called a true "stone's throw."

 

[bullfrog !]

Depending on where you are from medical facilities and your individual situation as you get older you may find having someone close enough to be able to get emergency help an advantage. Being able to set off your car alarm to summon your neighbors help is a simple solution. After all a home base is generally something for nomads that no longer travel often due to health reasons. Guess it depends on if you are building a community or just selling lots. As you get older a “stones throw” isn’t as far as it was when you were younger! Lol!!!

 

[user 22017]

Depending on where you are from medical facilities and your individual situation as you get older you may find having someone close enough to be able to get emergency help an advantage. Being able to set off your car alarm to summon your neighbors help is a simple solution. After all a home base is generally something for nomads that no longer travel often due to health reasons. Guess it depends on if you are building a community or just selling lots. As you get older a “stones throw” isn’t as far as it was when you were younger! Lol!!!

I agree Bullfrog, but that RV park looks too packed together. Surprised Escapees would do that.

 

[RonDean]

I've stumbled across another series of videos from a nomad buying land. This one is Nomadic Fanatic and one of the videos at shows his purchase of a 1-acre lot. I think I could be happy on 1 acre. Then he has several other videos showing subsequent activities. What set this apart was the back story that another nomad named Kevin already had a nearby lot and provided a few parking places for others now looking for land in the area. And apparently, Kevin had been supported by another previous nomad. And so on...

This was one sort of "community" I found appealing and avoided any joint ownership issues. Not that I am necessarily against joint ownership. I can certainly see that larger pieces of land with more informal site distribution might require that. But I am putting this forward as thinking fodder.

 

[camperdan]

I've stumbled across another series of videos from a nomad buying land. This one is Nomadic Fanatic and one of the videos at shows his purchase of a 1-acre lot. I think I could be happy on 1 acre. Then he has several other videos showing subsequent activities. What set this apart was the back story that another nomad named Kevin already had a nearby lot and provided a few parking places for others now looking for land in the area. And apparently, Kevin had been supported by another previous nomad. And so on...

This was one sort of "community" I found appealing and avoided any joint ownership issues. Not that I am necessarily against joint ownership. I can certainly see that larger pieces of land with more informal site distribution might require that. But I am putting this forward as thinking fodder.

Ron, This is just what I needed . Earlier today I started looking at a few Arizona counties regarding living in an RV
on property you own. From the links provided by www.landsidekick.com, I came away believing all counties had
SEVERE restrictions and it just couldn't be done. After watching the video of nomadic fanatic and reading between the
lines of early reading, I now believe that if one shows that a proper septic system will be installed, and that your rig
does not provide a health and well-being threat to the community, and the land, it would be approved. A septic system
would have to support a toilet and all waste water. A van dweller might find it tougher to get permission, but the fall-
back position of getting and older camper with systems built in would seem to work.

Like you, the 1-acre sites do offer a lot of simplicity. In fact, since rural land is probably less than $2000/acre, if there were
4 people who wanted to do this, they could each buy an extra acre with the idea of eventually expanding the community.
Show Low area could certainly work, but is very short of ideal. Much closer to ideal would be ares with a few miles north
of Prescott. Excellent hospital, shopping within a half an hour. Including a great VA medical center. And, only 4600 ft, instead of 6300 ft in Show Low. Specifically, I found lot of land for sale hear Paulden. I will contact the Yavapai County
offices soon and report back. In fact , there is abundant boondocking within 10 minutes north of Paulden that I have used.

 

[RonDean]

Ron, This is just what I needed . Earlier today I started looking at a few Arizona counties regarding living in an RV
on property you own. From the links provided by www.landsidekick.com, I came away believing all counties had
SEVERE restrictions and it just couldn't be done. After watching the video of nomadic fanatic and reading between the
lines of early reading, I now believe that if one shows that a proper septic system will be installed, and that your rig
does not provide a health and well-being threat to the community, and the land, it would be approved. A septic system
would have to support a toilet and all waste water. A van dweller might find it tougher to get permission, but the fall-
back position of getting and older camper with systems built in would seem to work.

Like you, the 1-acre sites do offer a lot of simplicity. In fact, since rural land is probably less than $2000/acre, if there were
4 people who wanted to do this, they could each buy an extra acre with the idea of eventually expanding the community.
Show Low area could certainly work, but is very short of ideal. Much closer to ideal would be ares with a few miles north
of Prescott. Excellent hospital, shopping within a half an hour. Including a great VA medical center. And, only 4600 ft, instead of 6300 ft in Show Low. Specifically, I found lot of land for sale hear Paulden. I will contact the Yavapai County
offices soon and report back. In fact , there is abundant boondocking within 10 minutes north of Paulden that I have used.

I think that once an area (county or state) is identified as a possibility, we would be smart to contact other nomads who have already settled there to ask them directly how they have handled such restrictions. In my internet searches, I have mainly found links to the folks selling their services or local authorities for whom cost is just not a factor. I have also found it's a good idea not to rely on any single search engine, as some are more oriented toward their advertisers and sales in general.

 

[RonDean]

To continue the thought process, so much of what available information there is only deals with traditional structures and neighborhoods. Much less so with what we might be envisioning. Septic cost quotes are also all over the place - I guess depending on many factors that might not apply to us.

Arizona Environmental > https://www.azdeq.gov/compost-guide-can-and-cant-compost > says composting is a valid alternative to traditional septic systems. Note: Human solid waste can be composted in a composting toilet but shouldn't be composted using any of the above (see article) methods. ... Never use this compost on anything edible (lawn, flowers are OK).

They also say > You may use gray water for household gardening, composting, and lawn and landscape irrigation, but use it in a way that it does not run off your own property.

So, I think (depending on specific local permitting depts) that we should be able to find an affordable solution to this particular question. But, like they say, "The devil is in the details."

 

[Onyons]

I like this >"When someone dies or goes to a home the S Corp gets 1st chance to buy a stockholder out."
thinking. That has been one of my concerns with any group plan.

I am starting this new thread specifically for those of us who think buying a hunk of land is a good idea. Whether as an individual or a community. We have already had some conversations in another thread and in PMs. So, we are not looking for discussion about IF we should do this. Only about the how, when, and where of it all.

I am so glad you started this thread! I am actually looking for property. I just started. Let me share what I am doing or going to do. I am going to use several methods at once.

1. I am actually using a real estate agent(s). I am going to use more than one. Yes, I am also looking for land at a good price. I may have to pay 1500.00 dollars instead of 400.00 but I am doing this for the title insurance and the free legal advice. Agents have access to MLS listings and they can usually tell you what is legal in the state or county you are trying to buy in or refer you to someone who can.

2. I am also trying to use websites like land.com, farm flip, and land and farm etc.

3. I am also searching for local real estate companies in the area. It is a little time consuming but I am going to track the on a spreadsheet by state and county.

4. I am also calling the tax accessor's office when I have a question about what is allowed.

5. I am looking for zones listed as un-restricted, Agriculture, or land that allows tiny houses or land that is next to parks, BLM land, etc.

6. I am also collecting other information as I go but that is a start.

7. I am also researching alternate ways of disposing of waste. Does anyone know how the earth ship houses in Taos NM handles waste?
They are totally self contained down to the rain collection system.

 

[bullfrog !]

The early earthships I believe recycle gray water after irrigating greenhouse plants to transport waste into a type of septic system that is used to irrigate trees or bushes. Some of the later ones probably use composting toilets.

 

[wanderlust]

I found an interesting discussion about the traps when buying a land to build a non-house. It is in highly regulated Santa Cruz, but those are all questions to be asked



regulations about having a shed before building, size of septic field, all the permits... scary.

Maybe a good idea to ask on local subredits in the target county - use the "wisdom of the crowds" for research. Another good resource I used years ago is city-data.com

 

[Malamute]

States vary on how they do real estate transactions, but using a realtor because of title insurance I dont believe is needed. The states Ive done transactions in, anyone can walk into the title company and have the title work done. realtors can be beneficial, they also will often deal on their percentage if asked.

The permits, septic specs etc arent that tough in the places Ive built. The guys that install septics know the drill, or if you are doing it yourself, if allowed wherever you are, get the info and study it, its not rocket science.

The thing to keep in mind in dealing with the county or whoever does inspections and permits is to let them feel you are there to do the right thing, not trying to get around the rules and whine and complain about how things work. All Ive ever worked with were very easy to get along with. Others have said they werent, but they also were trying to not have to meet all the rules if they could avoid it.

 

[RonDean]

States vary on how they do real estate transactions, but using a realtor because of title insurance I dont believe is needed. The states Ive done transactions in, anyone can walk into the title company and have the title work done. realtors can be beneficial, they also will often deal on their percentage if asked.

The permits, septic specs etc arent that tough in the places Ive built. The guys that install septics know the drill, or if you are doing it yourself, if allowed wherever you are, get the info and study it, its not rocket science.

The thing to keep in mind in dealing with the county or whoever does inspections and permits is to let them feel you are there to do the right thing, not trying to get around the rules and whine and complain about how things work. All Ive ever worked with were very easy to get along with. Others have said they werent, but they also were trying to not have to meet all the rules if they could avoid it.

The problem is that typical quotes I have seen on traditional sepic systems often exceed the cost of the land and other improvements that I am looking at. Maybe paying $10K to $20K for septic is OK when one is buying and building something costing >$100,000. But it's enough to make one decide "it's not worth it" for what I have in mind.

So... the biggest part of my planning will probably be how to deal with these regulations and staying as "off-grid" as possible. I am willing to deal with the problems and requirements of being off-grid which still allow me to buy and own a habitable hunk of land by myself or with a group in a semi-acceptable location. I DO plan to learn and abide by whatever local requirements there are, but those requirements might also determine what I can consider acceptable.

 

[bullfrog !]

Finding and buying raw land where you can live in an RV anywhere near civilization and utilities was impossible for me within a budget of $50,000 within a 150 mile diameter circle centered by Tucson. You may find it might be cheaper and easier in the long run to buy a property with established utilities at an old mobile home or small house site with a big pole barn. You could then park your RV inside the barn and live most likely without much outside interference. There are a few small acreage sites like that scattered around the area of Southern Arizona but they are usually much more than $50,000.

 

[RonDean]

Finding and buying raw land where you can live in an RV anywhere near civilization and utilities was impossible for me within a budget of $50,000 within a 150 mile diameter circle centered by Tucson. You may find it might be cheaper and easier in the long run to buy a property with established utilities at an old mobile home or small house site with a big pole barn. You could then park your RV inside the barn and live most likely without much outside interference. There are a few small acreage sites like that scattered around the area of Southern Arizona but they are usually much more than $50,000.

Thanks for the input. For me, a more remote location might be OK. It's a matter of balance between cost and convenience. I can probably afford to finance more than I really want to finance. I am still gathering data, but I would probably be more willing to be further from "civilization" if it included less regulation.

 

[bullfrog !]

Hauling water and fuel in and trash back out an hour each way gets to be a real pain especially if a portion is over a dirt road, even a well maintained dirt road. The expensive vehicle maintenance eventually catches up with you. After several seasons at Caballo Loco where we didn’t make many trips in we chose to stay longer periods closer to town on a paved roads.