A gun thread

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Why do you feel a need to kill snakes? I know of no snake in the USA that would be a threat unless you went after it. I can understand farmers protecting their small livestock, but I bet most of them like the rodent hunters.

Zil,

Just because I carry a gun, it doesn't mean I have to use it.

I've been licensed to carry a handgun for self-protection for 40 years now, haven't had to shoot anybody yet.

I've added a nice Ruger Redhawk in 44 mag to my collection and plan to carry it religiously in bear country. I certainly have no plans to shoot a bear. But, you know, I've heard that some bears are delusional. They think that THEY'RE at the top of the food chain, instead of me!

If the snakes leave me alone, I'll certainly leave them alone.

Regards
John

 

[Zil]

I have encountered just about every type snake in our country. the all left me alone and went on their way or were easy for me to back away. Enough snakes, I don't mean to hijack a good gun thread. Among others, I have a old 12 gauge flair gun that can shoot low brass shot. It looks like a cartoon pistol. lots of fun to shoot.

 

[[email protected]]

I understand personal protection quite well. I have half a dozen hand guns, and over the course of a decade or so, spent several thousands of dollars attending training classes. I have somewhere between 240 and 300 hours of such training.

My problem with the Judge is that it's an attempt to combine two different types of guns in one. It's needlessly large and heavy for a personal defense gun, and the presence of rifling in the barrel SEVERELY degrades any utility it has as a shotgun.

45 Colt is a fine self defense round, more than adequate. I doubt that any 410 shotshell can improve on it.

As general rule, I tend to agree with you about magazine articles. They never have anything bad to say about any gun, lest they offend an advertiser.

So when one DOES publish a negative review, I tend to take it seriously.

Plus, the article was written by Tom Givens of Rangemaster, a man I have met and trained with, and have a great deal of respect for.

When someone I know and trust has tested something and says "It doesn't work.", I don't feel any need to spend my own good money to repeat his tests.

Let me ask you the same questions I asked VanTramp. Have you actually patterned it with shotshells on paper? What kind of patterns did you get?

Regards
John

---

On the subject of shotshells and snakes . . .

As I currently live in the northeast, I've never felt a need for such protection. When I hit the road, I plan to spend much time in the desert southwest.

I've been thinking about getting one of those Bond Arms Snakeslayer derringers.

Theoretically, since there will be little or no rifling to interact with the shotshell, It should give decent patterns to a reasonable range. Plus, it should be light and handy to carry on hikes (along with my Glock).

Anybody here got any experience with one?

Regards
John

---

I ve owned my Judge for several years....my brother owns one....my son owns one...I guess you can say we have a family of Judges....
It is not a shotgun...it is a pistol. It is designed to use 410 in close quarter protection. That's where most bad things go down. It is also chambered for 45LC... More range...more knock down.
I stagger my rounds ...first round is (4) 36 cal slugs ...next 4 rounds...45 LC hollow points.
I don't feel the need to compare experience and training...my 11 years in the Army and 2 war zones gave me plenty of training and experience in firearms.
Do I shot bird shot in my Judge? Only when I feel the need to kill a pest. ( snake)
It doesn't concern me about range and pattern...just that the mission is accomplished
No one I know that owns a Judge..ever talks bad about them...
Only those who don't own one...or those so called experts online and in magazines.
I use it for its intended purpose...personal protection...not as a hunting shotgun

---

And I have shot clay pigeons with it....successfully

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Rattlesnakes and short scatter guns reminds me...

I was prospecting years ago in N.Mex and sorta sneaking across the border sometimes (that's a whole 'nother story). I wandered some remote places with 2 burros and only came down when I needed supplies every several weeks.

Anyhoo, I had an old 20g that I chopped to 9" with pistol grip. I called it my "snake charmer". Not legal, but it never went to town.
I hadn't thought about that old gun in a long time, but I do remember where I buried it in greased canvas.

When you don't have meat often a rattler is a real treat when roasted over a fire.

 

[Zil]

if you want to kill a snake to eat, that is a different story. I prefer rabbit, not as many bones.
That is sort of what my flair gun looks like, a pistol grip shot gun.

 

[Qball]

Doesn't anyone carry just a can of Bear Spray?

I used to get asked ALL THE TIME during my thru-hikes if I carried a gun. I thought this was a ridiculous question and I never met another thru-hiker that carried a gun. I do agree with the argument that people are much more a threat than animals...but I've never had an encounter with either that would warrant even using bear spray, let alone a gun. (And I've run into Grizzly, Black Bears and some backwoods looking folks).

IMHO I think that Bear Spray would suffice just fine.

 

[Darth_Muerte]

Just like with pepper spray, there are times when deploying bear spray is contraindicated. Heavy winds, rain, enclosed spaces etc... You can't just rely one one method of defense.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Qball, keep in mind that carrying bear-spray for self defense (unless against bears) is against federal law.

It is also formulated to irritate BEARS, not HUMANS, so it may work in that one specific scenario (you vs a single bear, as long as the bear is close enough) but do little to nothing against the big biker with a knife. You might be better off with Mace, which is formulated to irritate humans.

But to answer your question, no. I would not be caught dead with *just* bear spray (or mace) on me... or maybe I would be caught dead. A handgun is infinitely more effective at personal defense than anything that sprays out of a can.

 

[Lucky mike]

Wasp spray and a Bic lighter........dont forget the marshmellows!!!!!

 

[Van-Tramp]

Lucky Mike, you are advising someone to commit a crime...

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/crime/a/wasp_spray.htm
"U.S. residents tempted to avail themselves of this Internet-recommended self-defense option by stockpiling wasp spray would do well consider that federal law prohibits the use of any pesticide "in a manner inconsistent with its labeling" (such as self defense). Likewise, some states forbid carrying substances for self-protection that aren't specifically authorized for that purpose."

In other words, using (or even carrying) wasp spray for self defense will GET YOU ARRESTED. Lighting it on fire will surely get you time in state prison. It would be very bad for anyone to take the above advice.

 

[Lucky mike]

if you aim a gun at someone.......its a crime until otherwise proven
if you have a pocket knife in your pocket....its a crime until otherwise proven

Wasp spray to ward off a felon .......sucks to be the felon
if you use a gun and dont kill them.....your in the same place I am legally.

your right wasp spray is ilegal to defend yourself....but so isnt defending yourself with anything other than your hands in almost all states.

I'd rather the judgement by 12 than the carry by 6 rule......

 

[minimotos95]

but so isnt defending yourself with anything other than your hands in almost all states.

well over half the states have "stand your ground" laws in place... most of which allow use deadly force if your life is in danger. wasp spray is a much larger legal risk then anything marketed for personal protection. using it as a flamethrower is going to be even worse if you wind up in court. chances are you will become a felon.
i only use aerosol flamethrowers on insects and arachnids. it's not very effective.

my EDC, may be the anemic .25 but i was on a budget, didn't want a single action derringer and there was already a few of these in my family that have proven 100% reliable. if i am going into a more hostile area(near bears or a "bad" neighborhood) i'll slap the USP 45 on my hip but it's way too big and scares too many anti's to be carried everyday

 

[Lucky mike]

I have traveled all 50 states......in not one state is it ilegal to have wasp spay in your possession

Several states permits are required for mace
several states.....dont even think about showing up with your hand gun
In Massachusetts you cant even have BB's in your possession without a permit

that being said......

If I have to pull out a can of wasp spray to put my attacker down....consider it done

when you get pulled over with Mace and its seen....Immediately the officer is alerted
find a gun in your Vehicle....you have some explaining

now if you are going to strap on your wasp spray and run around with it you might have problems.

but trust me ....at 10 to 15 feet without the lighter , Im going to blind you....make your breathing real bad.... your skin is going to tingle......and most of all your going to have to rethink your strategy....

me I'm going to retreat ........ot pull out a cigarette, calm my nerves.....and flic my bic.

we can have all kinds of what if's......this is legal and that isnt........funny no-one ever has any of that cross there mind when SHTF....

they are only bad A$$ ....Before......and long after.

 

[Van-Tramp]

You may want to re-read your theory about wasp spray. The myth is that it will prevent an attacker, but the facts are that it has almost ZERO effect on a human (about the same as salt & pepper being blown in your face). You can spray it in your face and, after the initial shock, get right back to the attack. If you think that is going to stop an angry 300lb biker (or worse, a guy with a gun), you are *dead* wrong.

But, to say it again, it is AGAINST FEDERAL LAW to use pesticide for self defense. No matter if a State has any laws on the books against it, it is AGAINST FEDERAL LAW to use pesticide for self defense. TO advise others to violate FEDERAL LAW is very, very bad advise.

Personally, I'd never rely on wasp or bear spray to protect myself... or more importantly, to protect my family. To each their own, but for my family (and my own well being) the only tool for the job is the ONLY tool intended for the job, a trusty handgun... and it reaches out much further than 15 feet!

I have had to draw my gun three times in my life, all against humans, and never have I had to prove my innocence. Don't cave into the fear and hype Mike. You would be amazed just how many times a gun is used in self defense every single day in this country. I have not yet heard of a single time where Wasp spray has effectively stopped an attacker.

PS - It is "innocent until proven guilty", not the other way around

 

[petetheskriller]

Hello- I have a Cobra Fs 380 one of the late models the earlier ones are trash but for $195 delivered its a great get off me gun it has a nice heavy slide so recoil isnt bad I also have a 12 ga Mossberg and a Colt Car CSR 556 im not on the road yet but when I am I plan on staying out of states that aren't gun friendly. God bless and stay safe

 

[akrvbob]

Great little arsenal Pete!
Bob

 

[mockturtle]

Insect spray? Nah! For genuine self defense, I'll just shoot the m.f.

 

[highdesertranger]

van tramp is right, it is a federal offense to use wasp spray for anything other than what it is intended, ie wasp's. says so right on the can. many chemicals(or all) fall under this law. so without getting political I will leave it there. highdesertranger

 

[Bandit2]

Mike
" In Massachusetts you cant even have BB's in your possession without a permit "
Also don't forget to leave your Sling-Shot and Bullet Key Ring back in New Hampshire when You cross over the border to visit, as I don't want to see You end up here for a Year or Two .
http://ep.yimg.com/ay/priorservice/223-m-16-bullet-key-ring-1.gif

Bandit
Ps
Any chance of picking up a " Legal Switch Blade " before You Come down ?

 

[SoulRaven]

Glock 27 , light, easy to conceal and reliable.

Bear spray, hair spray or wasp spray may or may not stop an attack....A handgun will.