2000 Dodge conversion van - thoughts, advice?

[Wanderer]

Wikipedia articles on "Ford E-Series" and "Ford Modular Engine":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_E-Series#Chassis_3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine#2-valve_2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine#5.4.C2.A0Lhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine#6.8.C2.A0L_V10


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine#Spark_plug_issues

Sorry, what I meant was "Do you have any articles that point to the vans as the ones blowing out spark plugs? None of the articles you posted have such.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Sorry, what I meant was "Do you have any articles that point to the vans as the ones blowing out spark plugs? None of the articles you posted have such.

I don't mean to be snarky, but if the exact same engines are being used in the vans as are being used in the cars, exactly what magic do you think would keep the plugs from coming out on the van engines?

 

[Wanderer]

I don't mean to be snarky, but if the exact same engines are being used in the vans as are being used in the cars, exactly what magic do you think would keep the plugs from coming out on the van engines?

Excuse me, but I posted the FACT that the plugs were blowing out of pickups and SUV's.

I posted the CR report...Nowhere are vans part of the issue.

Nothing on that wiki party showed VANS were part of the problem, Care to show me they are?

I posted proof of my position. I'll wait for yours.

 

[hepcat]

Excuse me, but I posted the FACT that the plugs were blowing out of pickups and SUV's.

I posted the CR report...Nowhere are vans part of the issue.

Nothing on that wiki party showed VANS were part of the problem, Care to show me they are?

I posted proof of my position. I'll wait for yours.

Your argument is a little disingenuous.  The problem is the way the spark plugs were threaded into the heads in the Triton engines that is problematic...  what body the engines were installed in is moot.  As far as I recall, the engineering design flaw occurred in all models of the Triton as well... 6, 8, and 10 cyl., until they redesigned the heads.  I don't recall what model years the problem existed, though.   It was common enough problem that there is a specific tool and Helicoil that was produced to repair them.  Ford's tech solution was to replace the head with another head that would eventually do the exact same thing.

Frankly, that's why I looked for a B-van that had a 351 Windsor in it instead of the later Triton engine. After having several Triton-powered vans, mohos, and an Excursion, I just didn't want to mess with the plugs again.

 

[hepcat]

The Wikipedia article on "Ford E Series" is good background reading.  Basicly, from 97 on, the only V8s used in Econolines were the ones with the spark plug problems.  Ford claims the problems ended with the engines built after 11/something/07 which means most - but not all - of the 2008's on up.

Personally, if one of those engines has 125K, unless the seller can show me the work orders showing the spark plugs being changed, I would assume the original plugs were still in there and were going to be an expensive problem Real Soon Now.

As long as the plugs hadn't been changed they were generally fine.  The problem generally happened after the new plugs were installed and the threads inside the head were stressed.  IIRC, instead of the 1/2" of threads that old heads had, there was only two thread turns in the Triton heads.  Eventually after the plugs had been just a little over-tightened, under the high compression, the threads would just strip and give out.  I was fortunate that my mechanic knew about the issue and torqued the plugs VERY carefully when he replaced them and I didn't have any blow out of the Tritons I owned, but it was always in the back of my mind when I was towing a 7500 lb travel trailer with the Excursion.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Excuse me, but I posted the FACT that the plugs were blowing out of pickups and SUV's.

I posted the CR report...Nowhere are vans part of the issue.

Nothing on that wiki party showed VANS were part of the problem, Care to show me they are?

I posted proof of my position. I'll wait for yours.

I have no specific proof.  I have only simple logic on my side.  If you want to buy a van with one of those engines, based on the fact that Consumer Reports never said there was a problem, feel free.

Take Care

 

[Ballenxj]

I have had good luck with Dodge vehicles. Just don't buy them if they have been in the rust belt. Bob didn't mention them in his video, but I think they made them up until 2005

I have an 03 that I am perfectly happy with. Didn't come from the rust belt either, thankfully.

 

[DannyB1954]

As long as the plugs hadn't been changed they were generally fine.  The problem generally happened after the new plugs were installed and the threads inside the head were stressed.  IIRC, instead of the 1/2" of threads that old heads had, there was only two thread turns in the Triton heads.  Eventually after the plugs had been just a little over-tightened, under the high compression, the threads would just strip and give out.  I was fortunate that my mechanic knew about the issue and torqued the plugs VERY carefully when he replaced them and I didn't have any blow out of the Tritons I owned, but it was always in the back of my mind when I was towing a 7500 lb travel trailer with the Excursion.

Ford also had a problem with engines where the plug wasn't changed in many miles. They had what was called a two piece plug. When removing the spark plug, the lower piece would break off and get stuck in the head. No way to get it out without pulling off the heads. 

In the series between 2005 and 2008 they also had a problem with the drivers side rear cylinder failing. The one I worked on the rod went through the block. When I went to look for a junk yard motor to replace the one that failed, about the only one I could find had over 100,000 miles on it and they wanted $1,800.00 for it. Seems the demand for those motors is very high. The previous year 5.4 was incompatible but readily available for $450. Ford often changes designs. For some parts you not only need to know the year, but also the VIN number. They change stuff in the middle of a production year.

On the issue of engine failures in vans not being reported, I think it is just a matter of numbers. The majority of vehicles made are not vans, and not every van owner is going to sue when their engine fails. They will just quietly go buy another vehicle or repair what they have.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

On the issue of engine failures in vans not being reported, I think it is just a matter of numbers. The majority of vehicles made are not vans, and not every van owner is going to sue when their engine fails. They will just quietly go buy another vehicle or repair what they have.

Or possibly Consumer Reports didn't mention the vans because they are trucks, and not consumer vehicles.

 

[Wanderer]

OK, I asked others (Not on this forum) as to why those engines aren't "popping their corks" so to speak. Here's the answer I was given.

The vans only came with the 2 valve engines with the standard heads which would be like the pre-1998 design. After that, Ford used the PI head design on all Tritons in F-Series pickups and used a short 4 threads for the plugs. The soft aluminum metal and the short threads were an issue with the PI heads. The vans never came factory with PI heads. Standard heads only.


So there it is....Take it for what it's worth.

City Data forum, Brand specific Ford

 

[hepcat]

OK, I asked others (Not on this forum) as to why those engines aren't "popping their corks" so to speak. Here's the answer I was given.

The vans only came with the 2 valve engines with the standard heads which would be like the pre-1998 design. After that, Ford used the PI head design on all Tritons in F-Series pickups and used a short 4 threads for the plugs. The soft aluminum metal and the short threads were an issue with the PI heads. The vans never came factory with PI heads. Standard heads only.


So there it is....Take it for what it's worth.

City Data forum, Brand specific Ford

I found some conflicting info, Wanderer... the Ford TSB covering blowing spark plugs on vehicles out of warranty says:

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=x-small][font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]TSB 07-15-2[/font]
[/font][/size]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=x-small]5.4L 2V AND 6.8L 2V MODULAR ENGINE SPARK PLUG THREAD OUT OF WARRANTY REPAIR PROCEDURE FOR ALUMINUM HEADS [/font]
Vehicles affected: [/font][/size]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1997 t-birds, 97-04 mustangs, 97-08 crown vics, 97-99 f 250, 97-04 expedition, 97-08 E series and F 150, 98-04 f-53 motorhome, and F superduty, 01-05 excrusion, 02-06 explorer, 97-07 town car, 98-99 navigator, 1997 cougar, 97-08 grand marquis, 02-06 mountaineer. [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ford Motor Company authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum insert and tool as proper repair procedure.  Tool kits and inserts can be ordered from Rotunda by calling 1-800 Rotunda (768-8632).  Choose option (2), part number 302-00001. [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ford notes: The repairs with inserts and LOCK-N-STITCH tools do not affect heat transfer between plug and head. [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ford notes: This procedure IS NOT AUTHORIZED AS A WARRANTY REPAIR. For vehicles in warranty replacement of cylinder head is recommended. [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ford notes:  This is the only Ford authorized procedure for spark plug thread repairs. [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ford notes:  This procedure is authorized for ESP repairs and retail repairs. [/font]

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

As supplementary info to what Hepcat found, here's a website documenting some E 250s with 5.4 engines throwing plugs:

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/E-250/2002/engine/spark_plugs_ejected_from_engine.shtml

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Also, repairpal.com lists some issues with the plug problems... I'm back to searching... the vans I liked have disappeared from craigslist, so it's back to the drawing board! My van is out there, patience just isn't my strong suit!

 

[akrvbob]

Check out these complaints to consumeraffairs.com. There are numerous Ford van owners that wrote in and complained about the spark plugs blowing out.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html

Ford didn't make one set of engines for the vans and another one for the trucks.

 

[Wanderer]

Well, I read quite a few reviews, same issue (Mainly) was the Triton engines...But like the Vega of old...Guess staying with steel is a better choice I suspect...

 

[hepcat]

But like the Vega of old...Guess staying with steel is a better choice I suspect...

Ahhh... the Chevy Vega..  the car that brought new meaning to the word "depreciation!"

Yes, the issue was specific to the Triton engines...  again which is why I'm pleased that the van I bought has the 351W.  I wouldn't have turned a really good van down because it had a Triton though.  There are a lot of the Tritons out there that have served without issue.  And the plug problems aren't a fatal flaw... they're just an other maintenance issue.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Yes, the issue was specific to the Triton engines...  again which is why I'm pleased that the van I bought has the 351W.  I wouldn't have turned a really good van down because it had a Triton though.  There are a lot of the Tritons out there that have served without issue.  And the plug problems aren't a fatal flaw... they're just an other maintenance issue.

Yeah, it's basicly a crap shoot.  But given how much the repairs are, I wouldn't categorize it as "just another maintenance issue".  Rather, treat it like the possibility of a major repair, like having to have a tranny rebuilt.  Have enough emergency funds to cover it (cause the van WILL be undriveable if it happens) and don't be surprised IF it happens.

Worst part about it is, unlike a tranny rebuild, you can spend several hundred dollars fixing one, and six months later a different one can let go . . .

 

[Wanderer]

Now, let me put this to rest.

OP I apologize for acting like an ass. I realize that even though there's not a lot of information, there IS enough information to make it apparent that avoiding vehicles with Triton engines (And some others also) is a best case action for all of us vandwellers.

I hope this will not change your opinion of me. There's days we all have. Mine got the best of me...

Again, I am sorry and apologize.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I hope this will not change your opinion of me. There's days we all have. Mine got the best of me...

Again, I am sorry and apologize.

As far as having bad days, been there, done that.  I made some horrendous mistakes before I learned that there are really, really times when I needed to sleep on a reply before posting it.

Thank you for apologizing.  Accepted, of course.  We're good.

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Now, let me put this to rest.

OP I apologize for acting like an ass. I realize that even though there's not a lot of information, there IS enough information to make it apparent that avoiding vehicles with Triton engines (And some others also) is a best case action for all of us vandwellers.

I hope this will not change your opinion of me. There's days we all have. Mine got the best of me...

Again, I am sorry and apologize.

My opinion was that you were passionate about your position... I can respect that, as I am the same  :angel: