Will this DIY awning design work?

[PineyCruisin]

I have been ruminating on an awning solution for our high top conversion van for years and have probably read virtually every forum and every thread regarding DIY awnings known to the human race. These are the self-imposed restraints on the design that have made a solution a bit difficult:

1) avoid holes,if possible, in the fiberglass roof
2) no clamps on the rain gutters (it was reading threads on this forum on the damage done to gutters that made me rethink this) 
3) simple on/simple off
4) inexpensive
5) no plan on buying roof rack 

Originally, I was thinking of using tx2sturgis design of using sail shade pad eye plates on the roof like he posted here
 
[img=300x171]https://vanlivingforum.com/attachment.php?aid=16533[/img]

to connect shade but instead attaching the plate onto roof using 3M VHB tape. However, I quickly realized that there is not enough surface area on the plate for good bonding of the tape sooo.....

Here is what I am now thinking:

Drilling a few holes in a 7' or so section of aluminum angle bar[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] like this Home Depot one[/font]

[img=200x200]https://images.homedepot-static.com.../svn/everbilt-angles-802617-64_1000.jpg[/img] 
that I can quickly slip carbiners into when attaching the sail shade to roof. By using this long bar I was hoping it would be sufficient surface area needed for the 3M VHB tape to bond bar to roof and give adequate strength.

My main uncertainty is whether the 3M VHB tape will still withstand average wind gusts when sail cloth is attached (we weren't planning on using in very high winds), especially due to the 90 degree angle of the bar and the wind pulling the tarp, and thus the bar, upward. As a sidenote: the roof of van is getting repainted as I type this so tape will not be bonded to old damaged paint. Will definitely be waiting to ensure paint is well cured before applying the tape.

Any thoughts to using the VHB tape in this way? Any feedback greatly appreciated.

 

[B and C]

How about using glass movers suction cups?

https://www.amazon.com/glass-suction-cups-lift-large/s?k=glass+suction+cups+to+lift+large+glass

 

[PineyCruisin]

I actually was planning on using suction devices like those then saw thread on others who have used them and saying how they quickly deteriorated over time, so abandoned idea. 

Have you used them?

 

[eDJ_]

Consider this thread

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-DIY-Awning?pid=193650

In the Van Conversion link below there is a design I used on a standard roof Van. But you could make adapters to mount to the body of the Van and rise up up above the tops of the side doors.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Originally, I was thinking of using tx2sturgis design of using sail shade pad eye plates on the roof like he posted here
 

Any thoughts to using the VHB tape in this way? Any feedback greatly appreciated.

Wow...my ears were burning! How did you come up with that old pic?

Well anyway, when it comes to fastening a DIY awning (tarp, shade sail, etc) to a vehicle, magnets wont hold, suction cups wont hold, and adhesive wont hold. They just wont. Oh, they might survive for a little while, until the wind gusts over 5 or 10 miles and hour, then bye-bye awning.

You have to fasten it mechanically to the vehicle, either hooks, bolts, or screws, or clamps of some kind.

If you want to get fancy in your DIY awning, look into keder railing and keder awnings, beads, ropes, and hardware. You can order a keder rail and then screw or bolt that to your van, or cargo trailer, whatever, then you just slide the awning material with the keder bead up inside the rail. 

It's similar to the way sails on some sailboats are attached to the boom and mast. It's VERY Strong.

It looks good but can get complicated and/or pricey to DIY....but its a very nice setup when its built.

 

[eDJ_]

If you made a couple of brackets like this to mount to the body of the Van,  they could mound just below the rain gutter and rise up above it  to clear the side doors such that they could open and close with the awning in place.

Shown in red is the tab for the bolts bent to the right side making it more suitable to mount the aft of the Van.  The gray tab (with the two bolt holes) would bolt to the front of the Van just behind the front door.

The small hole just below the larger one would be for locking the spool in place.

This is what I'm thinking of doing with my High Top.  I still have my old awning that is shown in my Van Conversion site below in the signature line.
These brackets would be made of 3/16 or 1/4 inch aluminum.

The cover for the awning may be a bag or plastic pipe cut and hinged (like a clam shell) to fit over the awning when the Van in under way on the highway.  That could be held together tight with velcro strips. (or other types of fastenings)

 

[B and C]

I actually was planning on using suction devices like those then saw thread on others who have used them and saying how they quickly deteriorated over time, so abandoned idea. 

Have you used them?

No I haven't.  They are not meant to be left in the elements.  Put them on for use and take them off when finished.  These were never intended to be left outdoors.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Wasn't trying to shoot the ideas down, but I tried them also.

The big glass movers suction cups are fine, on glass, with a straight pull, but on curved, painted, metal body panels or roof panels they either slide, or loose their grip after a short period of time.

Adhesives like VHB....well even the manufacturers websites warn against using on painted surfaces for heavy mechanical or structural loads.

Big harbor freight magnets, fuhgetabout it. They just slide around, scratching the paint as they go. 

Yeah you really need to be willing to drill the holes or attach the clamps to the rain gutter or luggage rack.

Of course, you can always purchase a cheap 'easy-up' style of folding canopy...and use rope or paracord etc to kindve tie it next to your van or trailer.

 

[sneaks]

Use carpenter clamps and PVC pipe in the drip rails (if you have them). Interesting thread over on the Samba about DIY awnings using cheap Walmart sun tents.

Cheap awning

 

[PineyCruisin]

Really appreciate all the feedback! I guess I'm now back to square one since the tape is out of the question. 

eDJ_ : The bat wing from the thread you shared is a really cool design (I had missed this thread entirely). Really like that the awning stretches over a lot of the roof in addition to back doors and side doors, which would give much more cooling benefits inside the entire van than with just a side awning. As for the bracket design, that's a great idea because I too would need the awning to clear the barn doors when fully opened. The only thing I can't wrap my head around is where the front bracket would be mounted since the only bit of frame available between our side and front door is narrow, molded, and has a door seal. Here's the front side of the van: (btw, your drawn design renditions of the interior of your conversion are as good as any 3D software I've seen)



tx2sturgis: Yep, I went into the deep recesses of the forums to obtain some ideas and liked yours the best because how easy it seemed to hook up/take down. Also, shade can be [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]easily replace[/font]. Funny you mentioned the Feder system...I actually almost bought all of that from SailRite this week since I do sew (only using tape to hold down the track instead of bolts/screws) but I just couldn't get myself away from your design because of the sheer simplicity of hooking quickly with a carbiner. The prices at SailRite for the hardware was surprising affordable. Now may go back to that idea since you do not recommend using the 3M VHB tape.

sneaks: That thread you shared shows the exact setup I would like to do now that I'm thinking about going back to using clamps on the rain gutter. I have been looking for that canopy for hours but can't seem to find one like it, except this one that got horrible reviews. Seems the instant steel frames ones [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif](too big and heavy for our use) [/font]have replaced those with a flexible aluminum pole assembly. Have been using beach umbrellas in a similar way for the past couple years but really would like that 9' x 9' from the thread. I'm going to keep looking. 

Thanks again!

 

[crofter]

....If you want to get fancy in your DIY awning, look into keder railing and keder awnings, beads, ropes, and hardware. You can order a keder rail and then screw or bolt that to your van, or cargo trailer, whatever, then you just slide the awning material with the keder bead up inside the rail. 

It's similar to the way sails on some sailboats are attached to the boom and mast. It's VERY Strong.

It looks good but can get complicated and/or pricey to DIY....but its a very nice setup when its built.

Had to look it up. The rail is $24, but then there is the rest of the setup, and while you are at it might as well throw in a sailboat. I am sure that is how vantramp got started.
-crofter

Description: link to supply catalog information and diagram. https://www.kedersolutions.com/what-is-keder/

 

[PineyCruisin]

We must've been posting at the same time. 

SailRite has a track/rope system that doesn't seem at all complicated. 

Track:

https://www.sailrite.com/Flex-A-Rail-White-45 or aluminum: 
https://www.sailrite.com/Awning-Track-Aluminum-96

Sew shade onto this Rope to insert into track:

https://www.sailrite.com/Keder-Awning-Rope-Tape

Forgot to mention that if using this, I would mount the track a bit above the rain gutter, sew the rope onto the shade and then use a pole system for the other end instead of a framed awning.

 

[tx2sturgis]

My r-pod has the factory keder rail, so I ordered a custom pahaque awning...then not being too happy with that one, I DIY built two more using the existing keder rail, and material and hardware I obtained from various sources.

I finally settled on a small 4 point shade sail and a few bits of keder hardware, along with those same 3-section steel poles, and an aluminum spreader pole, and rope stays and stakes that I used with the van.

I'm very happy with the lightweight simplicity of it, yet it can tolerate some fairly strong winds.

 

[eDJ_]

@ piney cruisin

Yes,  just looking at your photo I can see that the front bracket wouldn't work for you.  It will barely work for me as I only have about 1 7/8 inch between my front door and side doors on my High Top Ford E 350.   If you could install a "step bumper" on the rear of your rig and mount a pipe (welded to the right side of the bumper) and set up the bat wing horizontal poles at the top of the pole.....this may work for you.  Some of these horizontal poles may have to be in two pieces to reach the length you wish and on the ends of these poles you may want to use vertical poles to support them.

The nice thing about having a wrap around awning is you can move your chairs to stay in the shade as the sun moves across the sky.

 

Glad you like the graphics.  They are created in PicPick a freeware that's handy for that.  It takes screen shots and I can model those in my web editor as a rapid prototype.   I can generally do all of that and post it faster than I can get my poor ol' PhotoShop to open, even with an optimizer installed to speed it up.

 

[PineyCruisin]

Just wanted to give an update.

Clearance needed above the opened barn doors has been the biggest challenge to work around in addition to the curved ridge molding of the roof. Without having to purchase a rack or install something onto the roof (even then there were limitations b/c I don't think it's reinforced), we'd have to start rigging something complicated. Don't have the time or energy for that. 

After spending more time looking for a canopy similar to one in sneaks thread, I got sick and tired of wasting my life thinking about it any longer so am just going to be purchasing the BusDepot Ezy Awning and be done with it. Totally realize it's not the quickest setup (saw this years ago but the setup time was a turnoff) but I need to move on since we hoping to leave for the west next month. I also plan on getting a permeable sail shade for sunblocking out west in the higher winds and using the clip system from the Ezy Awning to connect to roof. 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice. I'm imagining it prevented some headaches while on the road.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Hey I looked at those several years ago, I dont know that much about them, never set one up, but they seem to be popular and well made...good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

 

[PineyCruisin]

I will....going to practice putting it together before flight day and will let the forum know what I think. Your comment about the quality reminded me of this Ezy Awning post on a VW forum that wins the post-of-the-decade award. Reading it made me conflicted--I would never get one to save my sanity and yet was so highly impressed that I couldn't discount it entirely. 

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][img=12x9]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif[/img]Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject:[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][/font]

---

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You'll end up like me. You'll think it's a pain in the butt to put up and consider getting something else.

But through six years of vicious hail storms, a collapse from heavy snow, another collapse from rain collecting on one side (and me not paying enough attention,) several instances of serious abuse from severe winds (Moab, Red Rocks, Spanish Peaks,) festival hippies falling into the poles, drunk campers tripping over the lines, near death by being too close to a campfire, missing parts, bent poles, shock springs unwound, and whatever else gets thrown at it,

the damned thing won't die. It is possessed.

It is the awning that NASA astronauts should take into outer space. Navy Seals should use it for protection. It should be a refuge of last resort for hurricanes. We should all crouch underneath one in case of nuclear armageddon. You could put it in a pen with a pissed-off gorilla Samsonite-style and the gorilla would die of a stress-induced coronary before the EZ Awning gave up. It's the awning they used in Kuwait to put the oil fires out during Desert Storm. It is the Chuck Norris, nay, the Keith Richards of awnings.

The army which carries the EZ Awning before it is...invincible.

I never have really liked it, but we are attached for life.

It will probably be used to shade the mourner(s) at my funeral, then be buried with me. And I will still be bitching, from the grave, about what a hassle it is to put up.

Oh, and I just put the poles straight down with stakes and guide lines.
_________________
Joe T.[/font][/font] 

 

[landyachtman]

If anyone wants to see the awning design I've used in the past.  (bottom of this page) 

Wrap around awning

 

[eDJ_]

If anyone wants to see the awning design i've used in the past.  (follow link to the bottom of the page)

Wrap around awning

 

[Firebuild]

We must've been posting at the same time. 

SailRite has a track/rope system that doesn't seem at all complicated. 

Track:

https://www.sailrite.com/Flex-A-Rail-White-45 or aluminum: 
https://www.sailrite.com/Awning-Track-Aluminum-96

Sew shade onto this Rope to insert into track:

https://www.sailrite.com/Keder-Awning-Rope-Tape

Forgot to mention that if using this, I would mount the track a bit above the rain gutter, sew the rope onto the shade and then use a pole system for the other end instead of a framed awning.

This is what I used - except I have the PVC track, not aluminum. 

https://www.sailrite.com/Awning-Track-Flanged-White-96

 Incredibly simple! I'm doing a video on it this week.