What's the big deal with 6v batteries?
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jimindenver
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8-D's are nice, Lifeline 8-D's are even better. The thing is you can buy quite a few GC batteries for the price of one Lifeline 8-D. They are the best at what they are but are they the best at filling your needs? You have to get past the marketing, buzz words and cool factor to understand that.
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1. My experience is with marine or RV charging where it's hard-wired in, like a progressive dynamics or iota converter/charger unit. Both are excellent products. I just took a quick browse and see that iota does have hard-wired chargers, my guess is they are primarily for marine use.
If you're looking for a charger to plug into the wall at the house or at a campground, then something like this might be the ticket:
https://www.amazon.com/CHARGE-4520-12V-Smart-Charger/dp/B004RTJONY
You would want to shop for a high-capacity (20a) 'smart charger' - something that will provide multi-phase charge rates.
2. Equalize is a high current charge, like 15 to 15.2 volts for an hour or two on a regular interval, like bi-weekly or monthly, that burns off the plates and circulates the electrolyte. You'll find this in the built-n type units but probably not in a plug-in type charger unless it's one of those $700 jobs. I would be less hung up on equalize than just getting a decent charge and float rate so your batteries get fully topped up - dumb chargers have a hard time doing this, which then reduces the life of the bank.
3. There was talk of 'slapping a label on' so we don't really know what they have there, for all we know Deka is buying batts from some chinese plant and putting their label on them. It might be worth a call to them if you're concerned at all.
I'm sure it's a fine battery, I'm just saying it's at the high end of the price spectrum for a GC batt. For that much $$ I would definitely just get Trojans then, a known entity, and a super quality battery. I'm always wanting to get decent quality for the lowest cost, and the costco and sam's GC's are plenty reliable and as cheap as they get. I'm pretty sure they were $90 each last year when I replaced my two. With the new Iota DLS converter they don't boil and gas at all. But then they are in an external battery box fully vented outside the living area of the coach.
As far as their amp-hour rating, they will use all kinds of various environmental variables and discharge rates to arrive at a 'marketing claim' of rating. You have to look the find print and compare it to what another manufacturer maybe claiming as an amp hour rating.
Golf cart batteries are generally known to produce somewhere around 205 to 220 amp hours at a given discharge rate. We're not sure how this Deka one got to 238, so there's always some suspicion as to how they get to their claimed rating.
Vagabound said:Not sure if you're translating what you know into a different mode, or just dumbing stuff down, but whatever you're doing, keep doing it. I'm understanding!
Marketers: Pretty much the same conclusion I'd come to. FYI, not that it matters much, but the spec sheet says 230Ah.
So, knowing that it is a Deka, and a GC-15, any thoughts about its quality, reliability, longevity, tendencies to leak, whine, or explode at 2am, etc? In short, does Deka make good batteries?
Lots of good info, Browneye, thanks. I don't want to turn this thread into a normal battery tutorial. I know that that info can be found elsewhere. However, I'd like to get clarification on a couple things you said.
1. Decent smart charger: What might one of those look like in the flesh? Examples of not just a smart charger, but a decent one? Brand names can be useful, but "decent" defined as a list of features is more useful.
2. Equalize: I roughly know what it means, so we can skip the definition, but why did that word pop up suddenly in the middle of your paragraph about charger types? In other words, you said "equalize" but then didn't seem to connect it to the charger topic. In this case, is "Equalize" also an optional function on a charger that one should be careful to shop for?
3. Lowe's Deka: You said, "DEKA is a great name, but who knows what you're really getting on the Lowe's battery." Do you have some reason to believe that what Lowe's is selling is not really a Deka battery?
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1. My experience is with marine or RV charging where it's hard-wired in, like a progressive dynamics or iota converter/charger unit. Both are excellent products. I just took a quick browse and see that iota does have hard-wired chargers, my guess is they are primarily for marine use.
If you're looking for a charger to plug into the wall at the house or at a campground, then something like this might be the ticket:
https://www.amazon.com/CHARGE-4520-12V-Smart-Charger/dp/B004RTJONY
You would want to shop for a high-capacity (20a) 'smart charger' - something that will provide multi-phase charge rates.
2. Equalize is a high current charge, like 15 to 15.2 volts for an hour or two on a regular interval, like bi-weekly or monthly, that burns off the plates and circulates the electrolyte. You'll find this in the built-n type units but probably not in a plug-in type charger unless it's one of those $700 jobs. I would be less hung up on equalize than just getting a decent charge and float rate so your batteries get fully topped up - dumb chargers have a hard time doing this, which then reduces the life of the bank.
3. There was talk of 'slapping a label on' so we don't really know what they have there, for all we know Deka is buying batts from some chinese plant and putting their label on them. It might be worth a call to them if you're concerned at all.
I'm sure it's a fine battery, I'm just saying it's at the high end of the price spectrum for a GC batt. For that much $$ I would definitely just get Trojans then, a known entity, and a super quality battery. I'm always wanting to get decent quality for the lowest cost, and the costco and sam's GC's are plenty reliable and as cheap as they get. I'm pretty sure they were $90 each last year when I replaced my two. With the new Iota DLS converter they don't boil and gas at all. But then they are in an external battery box fully vented outside the living area of the coach.
As far as their amp-hour rating, they will use all kinds of various environmental variables and discharge rates to arrive at a 'marketing claim' of rating. You have to look the find print and compare it to what another manufacturer maybe claiming as an amp hour rating.
Golf cart batteries are generally known to produce somewhere around 205 to 220 amp hours at a given discharge rate. We're not sure how this Deka one got to 238, so there's always some suspicion as to how they get to their claimed rating.
SternWake
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An Equalization is not a high current overcharge, it is an intentional high voltage overcharge, performed after the battery has already been held at 14.4 to 8 volts for several hours.
Trojan recently upped their EQ voltage recommendation to 16.2 volts from 15.5v. The amount of time to hold it at 16.2v can only be determined with a hydrometer, as the goal is maximum specific gravity amp on each cell.
The necessity and frequency of EQ charges depends on how well the battery is recharged. Performed regularly when required, they can greatly extend the life of a flooded battery and also if the battery is abused, the proper EQ charge is required for restoration of maximum possible remaining usable capacity.
It will require about 6 amps or current per 100AH of battery capacity to bring a battery to 16 volts. Bringing a battery to 16 volts at an amperage higher than this is extremely abusive to the battery. It will not require more than this if the battery has been otherwise 'fully' charged before the 16 volt EQ charge was initiated, but if the battery was pushed right past the 14.8v absorption voltage upto 16v, it will likely warp the plates and gurgle up a storm, stink of sulfur badly, and shed plate material and lose capacity.
High voltage does not mean high current. I can bring my otherwise fully charged AGM to 16 volts using only 0.1amp of current, and after an hour it will taper to less than this, but this is unnecessary and not recommended.
If I were to bring my depleted AGM to 16v at high current the Vents would open and the battery might go into thermal runaway and be killed.
15 to 15.2v is not enough for a true Equalization charge, but can be considered a topping charge that would lessen the frequency and duration and perhaps necessity of a true 16v EQ charge.
15.2v would be more effective than 14.4v, but the likelihood of maximizing specific gravity on a hard worked battery is unlikely at these lower voltages. What might take 10 hours at 15.2v might only take 45 minutes at 16.0v.
And before initiating any higher voltage, the battery must already have spent several hours in the 14.4 to 14.8v range. This is extremely important, if one has a charging source capable of 15+ volts. Blowing past 14.8v is to be avoided.
EQ charging must be monitored, as the battery might decide to go into thermal runaway. There is NO automatic equalization, unless perhaps the charger had a battery temp sensor and also was monitoring the amperage flow and this would mean a 500$+ charger
16V is abusive and should be held no longer than needed to maximize specific gravity on all cells.
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4619-Professional-Battery-Hydrometer/dp/B0050SFVHO
meaning a person must monitor temperature and specific gravity while the charging source holds 16v and terminate as soon as battery temperature starts rising quickly, amps to maintain 16v start increasing instead of decreasing, or if Specific gravity, compensated for rising temperature, stops rising or has reached previously known maximums of ~1.275 Plus.
I know of no automatic chargers presently available, that will do 16 volts. Performing a proper EQ charge usually requires extra equipment, or a reprogramming of one's solar controller and enough sun and time to make 6+ amps per 100Ah of capacity, and having the battery already 'fully' charged when 16V is initiated.
Do not believe PD's marketing literature where they call a 15 minute bump to 14.4v every 18 hours when plugged in an EQ charge/stage. Otherwise PD makes a good converter, but it will NOT do a true 16v EQ charge, and their marketers should be hung by their genitals and whipped with leather dipped in hot sulfuric acid.
The EQ charge itself is something a Newb should not really concern themselves with at the planning stages. If the battery is regularly fully charged the EQ charge might never be required, and you will hear about person X who never EQ'd their batteries and they work 'juuuust fineeeee' for X amount of time, and there is no arguing those results, well, no point in it.
EastPenn/Deka make a good battery but at 140$Per, you could likely get a Trojan who make the Benchmark T-105. How much better is trojan's GC compared to Deka's GC?
I do not know.
As far as sticker slapping what comes off the production line, we do not know if all the batteries are the same or if they use a different and thinner plate material for a different run of batteries that get another label slapped on. Only an insider would know for sure, and they likely have signed nondisclosure agreements.
IE Johnson controls makes most of interstates batteries, and many/most of wally world batteries. Is the wallyworld group 27 the exact same as interstate 27? I don't know, No one but an insider does. Anybody else is guessing despite how strongly they might state, repeat, and yell their opinion.
If you do not require 220Ah capacity and are tight on space and weight, Trojan make the only true deep cycle flooded 12v battery, the T-1275. 12 volts and 75 usable AH before reaching 50%.( 150Ah capacity total). 82Lbs vs the 124Lbs of a pair of t-105's. If you can get t-105s you should be able to get the t-1275 as well, but I believe the t-105s are better as reports say they are easier to fully charge, requiring less time at absorption voltage. the t-105 have the plate and electrolyte ratio highly refined. The T-1275 compromises this refinement with less electrolyte which is at least partially responsible for longer times required at absorption voltage.
Iota and PD likely make the best Converter/chargers. While trojan recommends an initial 10 to 13% charge rate, 10 to 13 amps per 100Ah of capacity, they can easily accept more than this safely when depleted. If time to plug in is limited then a higher amp charger is beneficial. Do not fear a 45 or 60 amp charger on a pair of gc-2's.
PD9260 or iota dls-45, ect. make sure they come with the charge wizard pendant or IQ4 controller.
The 10 to 13% charge current recommendation is based upon when one has 8 to 12 hours to plug in a golf cart, not when the next discharge cycle begins before sundown as is common in Rv dwelling. This is based on the least amount of current being required to fully charge the battery in the time available to fully charge it being least abusive. It is more abusive to start the next discharge cycle less than fully charged, than it is to exceed this 10 to 13% charge rate and actually achieve a true 100% before that next discharge cycle begins.
So do NOT fear exceeding the 10 to 13% recommendations with a 45 amp or higher charger in RV dwelling usage.
PD is now offering models with a 14.8 absorption voltage inline with Trojan recommendations, instead of their 14.4 regular model. Seems those marketers realized their 14.4v maximum was causing strife among those with trojans. The PD can be forced to seek Absorption voltage by pressing a button, great for when other charging sources have battery voltage above 12.8v but batteries still far from fully charged and full output is desired.
A true equalization charger requires special equipment. A converter will not do it. Just ask the PD marketers swinging by their genitals.
Trojan recently upped their EQ voltage recommendation to 16.2 volts from 15.5v. The amount of time to hold it at 16.2v can only be determined with a hydrometer, as the goal is maximum specific gravity amp on each cell.
The necessity and frequency of EQ charges depends on how well the battery is recharged. Performed regularly when required, they can greatly extend the life of a flooded battery and also if the battery is abused, the proper EQ charge is required for restoration of maximum possible remaining usable capacity.
It will require about 6 amps or current per 100AH of battery capacity to bring a battery to 16 volts. Bringing a battery to 16 volts at an amperage higher than this is extremely abusive to the battery. It will not require more than this if the battery has been otherwise 'fully' charged before the 16 volt EQ charge was initiated, but if the battery was pushed right past the 14.8v absorption voltage upto 16v, it will likely warp the plates and gurgle up a storm, stink of sulfur badly, and shed plate material and lose capacity.
High voltage does not mean high current. I can bring my otherwise fully charged AGM to 16 volts using only 0.1amp of current, and after an hour it will taper to less than this, but this is unnecessary and not recommended.
If I were to bring my depleted AGM to 16v at high current the Vents would open and the battery might go into thermal runaway and be killed.
15 to 15.2v is not enough for a true Equalization charge, but can be considered a topping charge that would lessen the frequency and duration and perhaps necessity of a true 16v EQ charge.
15.2v would be more effective than 14.4v, but the likelihood of maximizing specific gravity on a hard worked battery is unlikely at these lower voltages. What might take 10 hours at 15.2v might only take 45 minutes at 16.0v.
And before initiating any higher voltage, the battery must already have spent several hours in the 14.4 to 14.8v range. This is extremely important, if one has a charging source capable of 15+ volts. Blowing past 14.8v is to be avoided.
EQ charging must be monitored, as the battery might decide to go into thermal runaway. There is NO automatic equalization, unless perhaps the charger had a battery temp sensor and also was monitoring the amperage flow and this would mean a 500$+ charger
16V is abusive and should be held no longer than needed to maximize specific gravity on all cells.
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4619-Professional-Battery-Hydrometer/dp/B0050SFVHO
meaning a person must monitor temperature and specific gravity while the charging source holds 16v and terminate as soon as battery temperature starts rising quickly, amps to maintain 16v start increasing instead of decreasing, or if Specific gravity, compensated for rising temperature, stops rising or has reached previously known maximums of ~1.275 Plus.
I know of no automatic chargers presently available, that will do 16 volts. Performing a proper EQ charge usually requires extra equipment, or a reprogramming of one's solar controller and enough sun and time to make 6+ amps per 100Ah of capacity, and having the battery already 'fully' charged when 16V is initiated.
Do not believe PD's marketing literature where they call a 15 minute bump to 14.4v every 18 hours when plugged in an EQ charge/stage. Otherwise PD makes a good converter, but it will NOT do a true 16v EQ charge, and their marketers should be hung by their genitals and whipped with leather dipped in hot sulfuric acid.
The EQ charge itself is something a Newb should not really concern themselves with at the planning stages. If the battery is regularly fully charged the EQ charge might never be required, and you will hear about person X who never EQ'd their batteries and they work 'juuuust fineeeee' for X amount of time, and there is no arguing those results, well, no point in it.
EastPenn/Deka make a good battery but at 140$Per, you could likely get a Trojan who make the Benchmark T-105. How much better is trojan's GC compared to Deka's GC?
I do not know.
As far as sticker slapping what comes off the production line, we do not know if all the batteries are the same or if they use a different and thinner plate material for a different run of batteries that get another label slapped on. Only an insider would know for sure, and they likely have signed nondisclosure agreements.
IE Johnson controls makes most of interstates batteries, and many/most of wally world batteries. Is the wallyworld group 27 the exact same as interstate 27? I don't know, No one but an insider does. Anybody else is guessing despite how strongly they might state, repeat, and yell their opinion.
If you do not require 220Ah capacity and are tight on space and weight, Trojan make the only true deep cycle flooded 12v battery, the T-1275. 12 volts and 75 usable AH before reaching 50%.( 150Ah capacity total). 82Lbs vs the 124Lbs of a pair of t-105's. If you can get t-105s you should be able to get the t-1275 as well, but I believe the t-105s are better as reports say they are easier to fully charge, requiring less time at absorption voltage. the t-105 have the plate and electrolyte ratio highly refined. The T-1275 compromises this refinement with less electrolyte which is at least partially responsible for longer times required at absorption voltage.
Iota and PD likely make the best Converter/chargers. While trojan recommends an initial 10 to 13% charge rate, 10 to 13 amps per 100Ah of capacity, they can easily accept more than this safely when depleted. If time to plug in is limited then a higher amp charger is beneficial. Do not fear a 45 or 60 amp charger on a pair of gc-2's.
PD9260 or iota dls-45, ect. make sure they come with the charge wizard pendant or IQ4 controller.
The 10 to 13% charge current recommendation is based upon when one has 8 to 12 hours to plug in a golf cart, not when the next discharge cycle begins before sundown as is common in Rv dwelling. This is based on the least amount of current being required to fully charge the battery in the time available to fully charge it being least abusive. It is more abusive to start the next discharge cycle less than fully charged, than it is to exceed this 10 to 13% charge rate and actually achieve a true 100% before that next discharge cycle begins.
So do NOT fear exceeding the 10 to 13% recommendations with a 45 amp or higher charger in RV dwelling usage.
PD is now offering models with a 14.8 absorption voltage inline with Trojan recommendations, instead of their 14.4 regular model. Seems those marketers realized their 14.4v maximum was causing strife among those with trojans. The PD can be forced to seek Absorption voltage by pressing a button, great for when other charging sources have battery voltage above 12.8v but batteries still far from fully charged and full output is desired.
A true equalization charger requires special equipment. A converter will not do it. Just ask the PD marketers swinging by their genitals.
SternWake
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Function wise, very good. Not sure about the ability to equalize.
However longevity wise, Xantrax are not highly regarded and customer support or returns within warranty period are reported to be very poor.
No personal experience with them, and the longevity and CS reports are hearsay, or perhaps Sawtyped.
I think Magnum is the high$$ top function charger or inverter/charger of choice.
I've not really researched these high end chargers.
I use a modified adjustable voltage 40 amp power supply as a MANUAL charger.
However longevity wise, Xantrax are not highly regarded and customer support or returns within warranty period are reported to be very poor.
No personal experience with them, and the longevity and CS reports are hearsay, or perhaps Sawtyped.
I think Magnum is the high$$ top function charger or inverter/charger of choice.
I've not really researched these high end chargers.
I use a modified adjustable voltage 40 amp power supply as a MANUAL charger.
SternWake
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My 40 manual charger is a Meanwell rsp-500-15 powersupply , but it is modified for easier voltage manipulation and for heat dispersion as they do get hot when maxed out by a depleted battery(s)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/RSP-500-15/?qs=8uyp/y7yFW4u946GFlR%2b8A==
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-My-newest-electrical-toy?page=2
http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/mobile-power-products/inverter-chargers
I've no personal experience with magnum chargers either, only Sawtyped.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/RSP-500-15/?qs=8uyp/y7yFW4u946GFlR%2b8A==
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-My-newest-electrical-toy?page=2
http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/mobile-power-products/inverter-chargers
I've no personal experience with magnum chargers either, only Sawtyped.
bigsallysmom
Well-known member
"An Equalization is not a high current overcharge, it is an intentional high voltage overcharge, performed after the battery has already been held at 14.4 to 8 volts for several hours."
Sternwake, is the 8 correct?
There was so much good stuff in this thread that I've decided to build a battery box that can hold 6v or 12v. Nice to have the option without having to modify after on the road.
Sternwake, is the 8 correct?
There was so much good stuff in this thread that I've decided to build a battery box that can hold 6v or 12v. Nice to have the option without having to modify after on the road.
SternWake
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Sorry,
14.4 to 14.8v.
Try and find recommendations of battery manufacturer as to absorption voltage.
Don't worry if they say 14.6v and your charger does 14.8v, unless your batteries are 100F plus.
If they say 14.6v and your charger only does 14.4v, that is worse, and more time should be spent at 14.4v to compensate, until either the Hydrometer indicates 1.275 or higher on all cells for a flooded battery , and on an AGM, when amps required to maintain 14.X volts taper to 0.5 per 100Ah of capacity.
Trojan indicates 14.8v, and this will help reduce sulfation over 14.4v as well as allow faster recharging to full.
Absolute precision as to absorption voltage need not be stressed over, the duration at which it is held is much more important to battery longevity and this duration is likely the biggest factor in overall battery longevity. With not going below 50% secondary to that.
14.4 to 14.8v.
Try and find recommendations of battery manufacturer as to absorption voltage.
Don't worry if they say 14.6v and your charger does 14.8v, unless your batteries are 100F plus.
If they say 14.6v and your charger only does 14.4v, that is worse, and more time should be spent at 14.4v to compensate, until either the Hydrometer indicates 1.275 or higher on all cells for a flooded battery , and on an AGM, when amps required to maintain 14.X volts taper to 0.5 per 100Ah of capacity.
Trojan indicates 14.8v, and this will help reduce sulfation over 14.4v as well as allow faster recharging to full.
Absolute precision as to absorption voltage need not be stressed over, the duration at which it is held is much more important to battery longevity and this duration is likely the biggest factor in overall battery longevity. With not going below 50% secondary to that.
I've been pretty impressed with the Iota DLS and IQ4 - keeps them fully charged and no gassing or bubbling except when it does it's short EQ boost. I think once a month it kicks to 15.2 for an hour or two.
The 2 year old GC's have stayed super clean and not required a lot of water. Very happy with this setup. Now I'm getting ready to add some solar to suplant when we're dry camping.
The 2 year old GC's have stayed super clean and not required a lot of water. Very happy with this setup. Now I'm getting ready to add some solar to suplant when we're dry camping.
Browneye said:
I don't see any evidence of relabeling. Does anyone else?
http://www.lowes.com/pd/Deka-6-Volt-448-Amp-Golf-Cart-Battery/50183775
Vagabound
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Optimistic Paranoid
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Vagabound said:
Uhm, by relabeling, he means that rather than build the battery themselves, they are buying batteries from some Chinese factory. The Chinese factory would put the Deka label on it as they were building it, so you wouldn't see any evidence by looking at it.
First. A Fact. Deka batteries are made in Pennsylvania. Duracell lead acid is Deka's brand they use for golf cart and other consumer lead acid batteries. East Penn is the largest manufacture in the USA. They make many DieHard and NAPA brand as re-labeled batteries at a premium cost. I'm sure they make others.
Second. I have a Pro-Nautic 1240P charger. It is hard wired. It has "smart" three stage charging, as well as a manual equalization charge. I am well pleased with this charger and it will run on my small 1000i generator. I am also well pleased with my Duracell GC2, 230 ah, batteries.
Second. I have a Pro-Nautic 1240P charger. It is hard wired. It has "smart" three stage charging, as well as a manual equalization charge. I am well pleased with this charger and it will run on my small 1000i generator. I am also well pleased with my Duracell GC2, 230 ah, batteries.
Optimistic Paranoid said:
Really? I assumed he meant what seems much more likely -- that that battery is sourced from wherever, but a Lowe's brand name label is attached, which at least we can see is not the case here.
Wouldn't the scenario you described lead to rapid lawsuits, especially if a nationwide chain store like Lowe's was involved, as it would be, at a minimum, fraud / false advertising, etc?
Vagabound
ArtW
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Only if it's labeled 'made in the US, otherwise, that's SOP in the US, see the 'chevy' metro and other rebadged foreign made Autos, 'Schwinn' and other 'useta b good' bicycle brands, and just about every TV sold by US brand companies
Heck, just about all electronic period, for that matter
so long as the label doesn't specifically state 'made in the USA' it doesn't have to be
There was a humorous side to this in the motorcycle world, as at one time some Honda motorcycles were built here in the USA, to get around the Tariff
so you'd see twinstars and such bearing the 'made in USA' logo on them, where Harley Davidson could NOT make the same claim (and can't to this day, AFAIK)
Heck, just about all electronic period, for that matter
so long as the label doesn't specifically state 'made in the USA' it doesn't have to be
There was a humorous side to this in the motorcycle world, as at one time some Honda motorcycles were built here in the USA, to get around the Tariff
so you'd see twinstars and such bearing the 'made in USA' logo on them, where Harley Davidson could NOT make the same claim (and can't to this day, AFAIK)
I'm aware of the outsourcing of nearly all U.S. manufacturing to China, Vietnam, Mexico, etc. The point I'm trying to get at is not really related to "made in U.S." or not. Indirectly, yes, because Deka is a "made in U.S." product, but not the main question.
I'm trying to figure out if you (anyone here) believes that batteries made without Deka's knowledge and approval would be marketed illegally in a national chain store like Lowe's? In other words, non-Deka batteries sold with Deka labels. I think the answer must be "no", despite ArtW's examples of a different, but similar-looking practice.
So, maybe the issue being raised is that Deka, contrary to its SOP, is knowingly making some of its batteries overseas, maybe to inferior standards, and selling them to the unwitting public through big box stores. Is that it?
SternWake made a point a bit earlier that no one except company insiders really knows what ingredients are inside the battery case. In terms of minor differences, I would agree. Seems reasonable. But in this case, we're talking about a company changing the way it does business, and on a large scale. That should be knowable outside of the company, if that's really happening.
Or maybe I'm fundamentally misunderstanding. That happens.
Vagabound
I'm trying to figure out if you (anyone here) believes that batteries made without Deka's knowledge and approval would be marketed illegally in a national chain store like Lowe's? In other words, non-Deka batteries sold with Deka labels. I think the answer must be "no", despite ArtW's examples of a different, but similar-looking practice.
So, maybe the issue being raised is that Deka, contrary to its SOP, is knowingly making some of its batteries overseas, maybe to inferior standards, and selling them to the unwitting public through big box stores. Is that it?
SternWake made a point a bit earlier that no one except company insiders really knows what ingredients are inside the battery case. In terms of minor differences, I would agree. Seems reasonable. But in this case, we're talking about a company changing the way it does business, and on a large scale. That should be knowable outside of the company, if that's really happening.
Or maybe I'm fundamentally misunderstanding. That happens.
Vagabound
Optimistic Paranoid
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More year ago than I like to think about, I worked at a gas station that sold Firestone tires. The Firestone rep went out of his way to assure us that even though Firestone made tires for Sears and Montgomery Wards, they were NOT Firestone tires with a Sears label on them. His claim was that Sears and Monkey Wards and similar stores would approach tire factories, provide their own specs for tires, and seek competitive bids for manufacturing them for them.
Optimistic Paranoid said:
Interesting. So, just to be sure I understand: In this case, Lowe's would be Monkey Wards/Sears, asking Deka to make batteries for it, to Lowe's specifications, which might not be up to Deka's normal standards, but which would still have Deka's label, with Deka's approval, because Lowe's can sell a helluva lot of batteries. Do I understand correctly?
Vagabound
