water container non-plastic

bantamcattle · Apr 4, 2012

i've searched around the forum quite abit and have not found much info on water storage. looking online it seems most are using large plastic containers. i myself prefer to have non-interactive containers like steel or glass and thus would like to find a system to store water that is not plastic. i'm just starting here and thus guessing at everything. my basic plan is to go to a town every 2 weeks, so worse case scenario is that i would need 2 weeks worth of water. i think i've read that it is suggested that you drink a gallon of water a day in the desert. i also am very active and go on many long mountain bike rides and consume much water. so maybe i should plan to use 2 gallons of water a day. that works out to at least a 30gallons of water for drinking and that should cover cooking needs too. i plan to be very conservative when dish cleaning (like using a spray bottle) and bathing will be with a wash cloth and a bowl (no shower or drenching myself). i don't need a sink or pressure or hot water, just enough water. all of that said i think i need a large container for water. not wanting plastic, i'm kind of thinking something like a steel drum would work. i know they make 55 gallon steel drums that are food grade but i wonder how i would use it? i could easily ladle water out of the top but how would i fill it? a hose from some place? carry a 5 gallon jug back and forth from the van and fill it up at a store? i also wonder if there are other type of tanks used in the food industry or in brewing that would work for me? i prefer to buy everything used and am in Denver for a couple weeks and thus have many resources available. i'd love to hear any ideas people have. thankyou much!

yesican · Apr 4, 2012

Just an idea, but what about a 30 gallon pressure tank?  They're metal and meant to hold potable water.  You might be able to pick up used one's from plumbers or someone remodeling. Also used hotwater heaters, but they tend to be scaley.

SoulRaven · Apr 4, 2012

Your worries may be a bit unfounded... A gallon of water a day is associated with desert summer heat... The "KISS" method is very warrented here, "keep it simple stupid"... get over your fear of plastic, for what you are referring to in that plastic leeches into the water is an old issue and was taken care of long ago... Glass is to heavy to begin with, 55 gallon drum is way over kill and you will abandon this idea after trying it... get a couple 5gal. jugs and save your self allot of hassle... that will last you 10 days at drinking a gallon a day and if you feel you need another 5gal. jug that would put you past the 2 week idea you have in your head... Do not over think or reinvent the wheel here... good luck to you future road warrior...

bantamcattle · Apr 4, 2012

yesican said:
Just an idea, but what about a 30 gallon pressure tank?  They're metal and meant to hold potable water.  You might be able to pick up used one's from plumbers or someone remodeling. Also used hotwater heaters, but they tend to be scaley.

seems like there may be various metal containers out there with potential. a quick search of pressure tanks showed many different shapes and sizes, tho i didn't see exactly how i'd fill them or empty them but 30 gallons sound like a much nicer size.

SoulRaven said:
Your worries may be a bit unfounded... A gallon of water a day is associated with desert summer heat... The "KISS" method is very warrented here, "keep it simple stupid"... get over your fear of plastic, for what you are referring to in that plastic leeches into the water is an old issue and was taken care of long ago... Glass is to heavy to begin with, 55 gallon drum is way over kill and you will abandon this idea after trying it... get a couple 5gal. jugs and save your self allot of hassle... that will last you 10 days at drinking a gallon a day and if you feel you need another 5gal. jug that would put you past the 2 week idea you have in your head... Do not over think or reinvent the wheel here... good luck to you future road warrior...

i plan to be in the desert heat, as i plan to mostly be in Colorado & Utah to start. i've ran out of water in the Utah desert 3 times mountain biking, all on 107ish degree days, so i don't make the best choices all the time and would like to make a better one this time. i believe all fears should be gotten over & thankyou for highlighting the idea. i also find myself stuck attempting to be appropriate and the world i experience has painted plastic containers as inappropriate at this point. thats what i'm stuck with. do you know of smaller non-plastic containers? or maybe have a story to share about the beauty & solidity of plastic? i'm open to ideas but need some content to be swayed. smaller squarish tanks would be interesting as they would tuck away better. 55 gallon drum seems quite big but a smaller 30 gallon drum may actually sit nicely between the 2 front seats and work as a table in the van. and having an open top makes for simple access. but flatter and smaller containers could tuck under a platform in the back i could build, plus nice rear weight.

dragonflyinthesky · Apr 4, 2012

I agree with soulraven but if determind to get something else and you can do with plastic, look on craigslist for someone parting out an old camper. Those come in sq and rectangle shapes and have fittings or places for fitting. New ones are not terribly expensive. More than 5 gallon water jugs from wally world though. Dragonfly

Simran · Apr 4, 2012

There are a number of BPA free plastic container options out there these days. I was looking at some this weekend at Sportsman's Warehouse; although they were a bit overprices for my tastes. gus

akrvbob · Apr 4, 2012

One issue to keep in mind is weight. Since you are in a half ton van, you should consider it strongly. 55 gallons of water is 440 lbs. I don't know how much the steel drum would weigh, but you should find out. I think you should go with a 30 gallon plastic drum. That is 240 lbs, plus the drum and that's plenty of water for 14 days plus an emergency buffer. Going out for 14 days at a time will mean carrying lots of food and stuff so you will have limited space. A 30 gallon drum will move the water upward vertically, taking up less space than multiple 5 gallon jugs. I would use plastic, but if you don't want to, look around for a metal one. If you find a used one, find out what has been inside it in its past. Toxins can't be washed out. If it only had water or food in it, I would bleach it while you are still living in town. Fill it with water and pour in plenty of plain bleach, no fragrances or anything else. At least a cup or two of bleach. You want it to have a strong bleach smell. Leave it in there for a few days and drive around to be sure everything is bleached. Then dump the water out and rinse it a few times. I bleach all my water containers at least once a year. Generally more often. Bleach is cheap! A simple 12 volt pump made for RVs will make quick work of filling the drum and getting it out to smaller containers for daily use. Ideally you will have solar panels and a battery bank, but if worst comes to worst, you can wire the pump to the starting battery and run the van when you are pumping water.  You don't want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere with a dead battery! Hopefully you are coming to the RTR in Colorado so we can help you if you need it. If you are near Victorville, California, you are always welcome in my camp!  Bob

bantamcattle · Apr 4, 2012

akrvbob said:
One issue to keep in mind is weight. Since you are in a half ton van, you should consider it strongly. 55 gallons of water is 440 lbs. I don't know how much the steel drum would weigh, but you should find out. I think you should go with a 30 gallon plastic drum. That is 240 lbs, plus the drum and that's plenty of water for 14 days plus an emergency buffer. Going out for 14 days at a time will mean carrying lots of food and stuff so you will have limited space. A 30 gallon drum will move the water upward vertically, taking up less space than multiple 5 gallon jugs. I would use plastic, but if you don't want to, look around for a metal one. If you find a used one, find out what has been inside it in its past. Toxins can't be washed out. If it only had water or food in it, I would bleach it while you are still living in town. Fill it with water and pour in plenty of plain bleach, no fragrances or anything else. At least a cup or two of bleach. You want it to have a strong bleach smell. Leave it in there for a few days and drive around to be sure everything is bleached. Then dump the water out and rinse it a few times. I bleach all my water containers at least once a year. Generally more often. Bleach is cheap! A simple 12 volt pump made for RVs will make quick work of filling the drum and getting it out to smaller containers for daily use. Ideally you will have solar panels and a battery bank, but if worst comes to worst, you can wire the pump to the starting battery and run the van when you are pumping water.  You don't want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere with a dead battery! Hopefully you are coming to the RTR in Colorado so we can help you if you need it. If you are near Victorville, California, you are always welcome in my camp!  Bob

great stuff, thankyou much! the cleaning method is very useful. i will definitely keep RTR in mind once i search it and find out what it is and will also mark Victorville on the map. i really do think 30 gallons is much more appropriate. i'm looking to get a 2nd battery with a small solar charging system, so maybe that could help with a pump setup. Yesican's idea got me searching for pressure tanks and i found many in the 30 gallon range, mostly form the dairy industry. i've also glanced around at restaurant equipment and they have 30 gallon pots which i think i could secure the lid with a bit of rubber and c-clamps. right now i don't mind the idea of ladling into smaller containers, tho i may find a container with a spout. an up right drum/pot/container may work well at the van's back door. good place to get at it and out of the way and over a a wheel. i looked at my notes from a trip in september above 9,000ft and i was using around a gallon a day then. so again double would be 30 gallon tank, which seems good to start as i don't have to fill it and can always swap out later once i understand my needs. thankyou all for the ideas.

Kisatchieman · Apr 4, 2012

A word of caution:  Make sure you secure whatever container you use. In an accident, particularly a rollover, a big, heavy, loose object can kill or maim you.

gadgetMe · Apr 4, 2012

Just a thought here Check out used 16 gallon beer kegs There is a single snap ring that holds the valve in at the top that can be removed for cleaning.. Putz

akrvbob · Apr 5, 2012

Great idea about the beer kegs!! RTR stands for Rubber Tramp Rendezvous. It is a gathering of vandwellers and RVers. The winter Rendezvous is held at Quartzsite, AZ, and the summer Rendezvous will be near Leadville, CO this year. Here is a page about it: http://cheapgreenrvliving.com/Rendezvous_Summer_2012.html One more thought about water, I wouldn't put it near the back door. You want to keep weight balance in mind with a van. Because the engine is so far back, it is very easy to shift the center of gravity too far to the rear. The risk is it will act like a fulcrum and lift some weight off the front wheels, leading to steering problems.  I once drastically overloaded a pickup and the headlights no longer pointed at the road, they pointed up at the sky! Very unsafe. Much better idea would be to put it behind the drivers seat. Another idea is to remove the passenger seat up front and fit it in there. Also, Starman is very right, secure it to the wall!! One way to secure it is with 2 pieces of angle iron that fits across the top of the drum/keg. Run a long all-thread bolt down through the floor and bolt it down to the floor. Hopefully you can find a frame member to bolt it to, if not fabricate a large "washer" so the bolt can't be pulled through the floor. Bob

bantamcattle · Apr 5, 2012

thankyou much. the securing idea is very important and i had not pondered it much. also the placement info is very helpful! at this point i think my best options are a keg or a 30 gallon drum (looks just like a 55 gallon one but smaller) or a large stock pot (around 15 gallons). kegs seem most available, i've seen them on craigslist for 100$. i could get one to start and see how it goes. if i end up needing 2, it may be cheaper to find a 30 gallon drum, which could be more space efficient too. with those 2 options i'd need some kind of pump, while a stock pot has a big enough opening and is shallow enough i could probably get water out of the bottom easily. i need to see whats available and at what price but seems like some good options.

VJG1977 · Apr 8, 2012

While I am still in the planning stage, IÃ¢Â€Â™ve looked into water storage.   The simplest water storage would have to be the 1-gallon water jug placed in a milk crate, 2 or 3 under my sleeping platform, 8 or 12 gallons.    For a larger van you could use a conventional hot water heater just for storage. Found a tall 40-gallon unit that is 60 inches tall by 18 inches wide.  Mount it on its side with the bottom drain down.  Use that for the outlet.  Install a nipple and elbow at the top inlet to raise it above the height of the tank. This is the inlet and would need to be vented in a non-pressurized system.  Plug the original top outlet.   When I move up to a larger van I am considering the use of PVC pipe for water storage.  <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">PVC is easy to work with: a saw, pocketknife, fine sand paper and PVC glue / cleaner is all you need.  There are many fittings and reducers on the shelves at any LoweÃ¢Â€Â™s or Home Depot. <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">If you drive a service van type stealth camper, the pipe could be carried on roof top ladder racks.  IÃ¢Â€Â™ve seen many contractors with PVC pipe on the roof.  Painted flat black they should warm up nicely on a sunny day. The formula for the volume of a cylinder is <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">V<span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "> <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">= ÃÂ€r<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">2<span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">h.  Ã¢Â€Âœ<span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">3.14159 times the radius squired times the heightÃ¢Â€Â. <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">A 10-foot length of 6 inch PVC works out to: 3.14159 x 9 x 120 = 3392.9 cubic inches. There are 231 cu inches in a gallon so 3392.9 cubic inches =14.688 gallons. <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">10 ft of 2 in pipe = 1.63 gal <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">10 ft of 4 in pipe = 6.52 gal <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">10 ft of 6 in pipe = 14.68 gal <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">10 ft of 8 in pipe = 26.11 gal <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">Notice that as the diameter doubles the volume increases by 4 times. <span style="font-size: 11.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">The price per foot for the larger diameter pipe is pretty high.   If placed inside a van, it could be attached to the sidewall.  Shorter sections with elbows could be joined in a zigzag pattern.

thinker · Apr 8, 2012

while pvc is super convenient, and you aren't the first person i've heard of wanting to use it for water. BUT if it's potable water, it's a bad idea. that's why most codes only allow it to be used for waste systems and many don't allow it at all due to toxicity issues.

SoulRaven · Apr 8, 2012

The keg idea sounds great, you can by a 12V self priming water pump with on/off switch to fill smaller vessels... I am working on this very project now but without the self priming feature which i am brain working at this time... Solution is probably a one way check valve...

gadgetMe · Apr 8, 2012

The tapper on a beer key works with air pressure to remove the liquid (beer or water) <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> they are made of stainless steel and strong enough to handle pressure. come in 2 sizes 16 & 8 gallon.  (ask me how I know <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">) A hand pump can be used, or use a small 12 volt air compressor, to supply pressure Also, since the hole is lower than the outer edge you could turn it upside down and use gravity. Putz

VJG1977 · Apr 8, 2012

thinker said:
while pvc is super convenient, and you aren't the first person i've heard of wanting to use it for water. BUT if it's potable water, it's a bad idea. that's why most codes only allow it to be used for waste systems and many don't allow it at all due to toxicity issues.

<div> </div><div>Building codes vary from state to state, here in Tennessee PVC is used a lot from the meter into the house with copper in the house.  With the high theft of copper lately some builders have returned to PVC and CPVC in the house.  Ã¢Â€ÂœToday, plastic plumbing products designed for potable water applications are usually designated with either "NSF-PW" or "NSF-61" to indicate that the product complies with the health effects requirements of NSF/ANSI Standard 61 for materials designed for contact with potable water.Ã¢Â€Â  The first two manufacturers of PVC pipe I looked at met these standards.  I have no problem with anyone that chooses not to use PVC for any reason but I have not seen any evidence strong enough to discourage me from using it. </div>

thinker · Apr 8, 2012

vjg,<div>my understanding about pvc is not the pipe, but the cleaner and glue. though, i haven't had call to work with it for years. it's quite likely more modern chemicals hand eliminated the hazards or there are specific products for potable water applications. if this is true, he should go for it. but if he's going to have water sitting in the pipe, he should absolutely check it out. health is too important.</div>

freejetz · Apr 9, 2012

<div>Just came across these bad boys and they are BPA free..  I think this is what I will be using for my running water.  Mount the brick with a spigot above a sink connnected to a waste water tank.  They also stack nicely for storage and can store food,  another color brick is available for that.</div><div><a href="http://www.waterbrick.org/products.php" target="_blank">http://www.waterbrick.org/products.php</a> </div><div> </div><div><img src="http://www.waterbrick.org/products/medium/4_Standard_Brick.jpg"></div><div><img src="http://www.waterbrick.org/products/medium/18_10_Blue_Standard_Edit_Small_2.jpg"></div><div><img src="http://www.waterbrick.org/products/medium/14_Spigot.jpg"></div><div><img src="http://www.waterbrick.org/products/medium/5_Tan_Standard.jpg"></div><div> </div>

bantamcattle · Apr 23, 2012

water bricks look pretty nice. one of those would be nice to transport water from source into van container. i ended up purchasing a used beer keg today. asked at a local pub and they don't have them available there but the bartender happened to have a secondary business that supplies home brewers and amazingly enough he had a keg and hand pump for me. its stainless steel, 15-16gallon capacity, easy to open seal on top and a very simple hand pump. all for 80$. he mentioned that bleach causes pitting in stainless steel over time and recommended cleaning it with oxiclean. i think i will use some natural detergent i hav that has no scent. thanks everyone for the help and input.

water container non-plastic

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