Unwelcome Greeting

[lenny flank]

Hope she reads this and stops this threatening behavior before someone gets shot.

Alas, introducing a gun into a non-life-threatening situation, turns it into a life-threatening situation.

Not a bright move.

 

[cyndi]

There is a thread or maybe a post on camping etiquette. I'm not having any luck finding it. This would be a great time to review that advice.

I've also deleted a couple of posts. The negativity isn't called for.

 

[Txjaybird]

Not knowing what the laws are in Arizona regarding threatening someone with a firearm, I think if I was out on public land and was threatened like that I would have called 911 and let law enforcement sort it out.

*********************************************************************************************************************
I SEE HER STATEMENT AS  A "WARNING".....  "I HAVE A GUN...DON'T COME ANY CLOSER" 

TO ME A "THREAT" WOULD HAVE INCLUDED WORDS THAT DEMONSTRATED WHAT SHE INTENDED TO DO WITH THE GUN.  "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT"   "ANOTHER STEP AND YOUR DEAD MEAT" OR SOMETHING SIMILAR.

THERE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN A GUN THERE AT ALL

MYSELF I'D RATHER HEAR A VERBAL WARNING THAN A GUN SHOT ANY DAY OF THE WEEK

JEWELLANN
*******************************************************************************************************************

She broke the law, one guy got 3.5 years in AZ when him and another guy got into a road rage deal, he put his gun on his dash so the other guy could see it.

You could pull you gun on her at that point ( per AZ law), because it was a threat, if she moved wrong at that point a cop would have shot her.

Hope she reads this and stops this threatening behavior before someone gets shot.

*********************************************************************************************************************
JUST WHAT I THINK...DOESN'T MAKE ME RIGHT

 

[Chuck1]

If you have a gun on your hip (open carry) and point at it during a confrontation, you have broken the law.

All you have to do is presented yourself as a threat, anyone in the area can independently determine that your careless actions constitutes a logical lethal threat to their well-being. And they’d be right.

Same with concealed carry, just saying you have a gun has broken the law if its during any kind of confrontation.

----- What if he was Deaf and walked up to her, she might have shot him.---

It doesn’t matter how foolish you look or what people say about you – you have a moral - legal obligation to de-escalate because you’re armed with a firearm and you don’t know if the other guy is.

 

[Chuck1]

People don't bring a gun into conflicts unless you really need to.

Search google videos " cop shoots unarmed suspect " some are bad kills (rare) some are suicide by cop, some just didn't follow orders and reached then got shot.

If a cop/you has a confrontational person (or acting irrationally) that you think-know-or they told you they have a gun, and they look like they are reaching for a gun, the cop/you draw and shoot, that's what people who are trained do.

 

[tripper]

'Rolled up on' can mean a lot of different things.  If you had stopped well away from the campfire, turned the bike off and then called out to your friends, things may have been different.

Then again...maybe not.

Actually, that is exactly what I did.  It was a bicycle with a lot of lights on it, so it wasn't like I snuck up on them.

 

[Ticklebellly]

Actually, that is exactly what I did.  It was a bicycle with a lot of lights on it, so it wasn't like I snuck up on them.

Trying to minimise what you did does not put any responsibility on the camp occupants to react in any way other than what they thought appropriate.

Clearly a learning opportunity here.   What you think is appropriate behaviour may be seen by others in a very different way.   To be clear, I would have reacted to your approach, as described, in a quite different way.   Clearly announcing your presence with lots of lights would engender curiosity from me, rather than fear (assumption) as suggested by the reaction described.

 

[tripper]

I do have to say, the dozens of other people and camps that I visited during the RTR, both male and female (and my entire life actually), have always been positive experiences.  IMHO their (the two females in the first post) reaction was grossly inappropriate, they were sitting out by their fire in a public area, not inside their vehicles at dark. To be using that threat (which is exactly how i took it) they should have a reasonable belief that someone walking up presented an imminent threat of bodily injury or death, the act of an unknown person approaching your camp does not imply that.  It does not matter if you are a man or a woman, that is a total bs excuse, we are all human beings here.

I do not intend to live my life being rude to people, if that entails some danger so be it.

I do want to repeat, the thousands of campers I have met over my lifetime have all been really cool when I have talked to them, especially so at the RTR.

 

[wagoneer]

I go out of my way to be alone and never approach a camp fire without a clear invite. But then at my age in bed by sundown so it's all good, sorry you had that happen.

 

[highdesertranger]

I would like to say that Itripper came up to my campfire on his lit-up bike at night. he did everything thing right, he stopped a ways off and asked permission to enter. he was not threatening in any way and his bike looks like it belongs in a Disney light parade. I don't know what exactly happen at the other fire but he is always welcome at my fire. highdesertranger

 

[lenny flank]

Could you please not type in all caps? Not only is it SHOUTING !!!!!!!! but it is very hard to read.

Thanks.

 

[lenny flank]

People don't bring a gun into conflicts unless you really need to.

The law USED to be that you could not draw a weapon unless you were demonstrably in imminent threat of death or great bodily harm (i.,e., the other guy was already showing a weapon).

NOW, alas, the law allows you to shoot someone simply because "I was scairt!!"

An idiotic law, in my view.

 

[cyndi]

We have a few members with visual issues/problems. When they type in caps it's because they are having problems with their vision

 

[Chuck1]

The law USED to be that you could not draw a weapon unless you were demonstrably in imminent threat of death or great bodily harm (i.,e., the other guy was already showing a weapon).

NOW, alas, the law allows you to shoot someone simply because "I was scairt!!"

An idiotic law, in my view.

Your a funny guy, i like that.

AZ is one of the few states that you can draw without shooting, like if someone has drawn on you.

In the rest of the county if you draw you have to shoot, if you don't then your life wasn't in danger and you get arrested for brandishing a weapon and maybe a felony on top of that, that's the law but its not always charged, like if you saved a kid without shooting.

Then you have places like Texas where if your stealing property at night without a threat to life then you can be shot because its Texas and you don't mess with Texas.

 

[lenny flank]

We have a few members with visual issues/problems. When they type in caps it's because they are having problems with their vision

OK, I understand. 

 

[Wanderer]

I'd not approach at night. That's just me. Reminds me of Louis L'amour who wrote about how cowboys would approach camps they saw. They'd clal out to the camp if they could come in, usually they were welcomed. You just ran into people who were new probably...

 

[SillyLilly]

You know, women are REALLY tired of hearing from men that we should lighten up, smile a little, be friendly, and just put up with them.

EVERY woman, from childhood onward, has experienced stares, groping, catcalls, harassment, assault, and threatened if not actual rape. Through universal experience, we have learned that this is default male behavior. Every interaction with men has the potential to turn dangerous. Even the nicest guys can turn out to be lying predators. Even our own fathers, stepfathers, and brothers can be dangerous.  

If we're friendly, creepy males assume that's a sign of sexual interest. If we're unfriendly, they think that's a sign that we just want to be conquered. If we're strong, that must mean we're ballbreakers or witches or lesbians (and then they'll ask if they can watch, or join in). If we're weak, we may as well be fair game. If we're cursed with big breasts, we must be "easy." If we're not verified virgins, we must therefore be sluts and available to anyone who wants us.

Screw that.

EVERY woman has had "the talk" from her mother about being careful not to give out the "wrong signals" to lessen the risk that we'll be raped. To be careful how we dress, how we act, where we can and can't go, to be relatively "safe" from inappropriate male behavior. And that if "it" happens, it was probably our fault for being inadvertently seductive.  

Some men get the talk from their dads about respecting women, not forcing themselves on women, not hitting or raping or killing women. A lot of other men either don't get the talk, or don't think it applies to them, or she was asking for it, or decide their urges are more important than than someone else's right to be left alone. Men believe they have the right to maim or kill a man who comes onto them sexually -- women get told we are the ones to blame if a man hits on us inappropriately.

EVERY woman has experienced this. EVERY woman has been blamed at some point for being victimized by male harassment. Men don't ever seem to be responsible or accountable for what they do.

I can hardly fault these women whose camp the OP invaded for responding with hostility. Whether the "I have a gun" response was appropriate I won't judge. The fact that they felt sufficiently threatened by OP's presence to respond this way was undoubtedly based on a lifetime of experience.

Dudes, grow some effing manners. Quit defending men whose behavior around other humans is anything other than respectful and non threatening. If you're truly one of those "nice guy" who would never, ever, impose yourself on random women just because there's a one-in-a-million chance you might get lucky, then call out your creepy friends when they creep on women. If it's not okay to treat your wife, your mother, or your daughter like that, don't treat other random women that way, and shut down your bro friends who think it's okay. If it is okay with you to treat women like that, I don't want you anywhere around me or any other women.

PS: I don't hate men. In fact, there have been a few that I really, really liked. But I will never fully trust any of them.

 

[Chuck1]

I would like to say that Itripper came up to my campfire on his lit-up bike at night.  he did everything thing right,  he stopped a ways off and asked permission to enter.  he was not threatening in any way and his bike looks like it belongs in a Disney light parade.  I don't know what exactly happen at the other fire but he is always welcome at my fire.   highdesertranger

Cant be true (joke) all men are the devil and everything is our fault, or so i have read.

 

[jacks18614]

We must assume all men are modern day Vikings and have traded our long ships for a van with an electric mountain bike.

 

[Chuck1]

We must assume all men are modern day Vikings and have traded our long ships for a van with an electric mountain bike.

Haha.. we can use Old Norse translated and put on stickers to identify each other

land men = landą manniz