Unorthodox freshwater acquisiton ideas I have (serious discussion)

[debit.servus]

Since I desire to live large where enviroment permits when it comes to water in the mobile dwelling, I'm seriously looking at these known but unorthodox methods to acquire freshwater.

#1 drawing from pristine/clearwater streams, rivers and lakes. I'm thinking of a system to take on 100 gallons of water in 10 minutes of less using a clear vinyl tube or translucent poly hose, I should be able to unreel the hose, throw the hose in the water, start the pump, reel in the hose when finished filling. The pump should be 12v, capable of 100 foot of head, and not need priming while water is sucked up to it 100 feet up from water level. I can put a strainer on the intake end.

#2 rainwater collection. On the trailer conversion I will add aluminum C-channels on both sides to be gutters, at the ends I'll have tubes which go through a screening bucket then into the freshwater tank.

#3 snow melt in winter. Take white snow and dump it into the straining bucket which discharges into the freshwater tank. Or throw snow and ice onto the roof when it will melt. I'll clean out the straining bucket when needed. 

I will install an overflow hose at the top of the freshwater tank which dumps overflow freshwater outside. All water will be treated with bleach to kill bacteria and I will test using test strips or color solution for deadly chemicals.

 

[RVtrek]

I have a dumb question: if you use bleach to kill the bacteria, do you really want to then drink bleach-tainted water? Surely there must be a safer way to purify/sanitize water (I'm certainly not the expert).

 

[wagoneer]

Not all principalities look well on using public water for private consumption, farmers have been arguing these issues for a long time.

 

[John61CT]

Google watermakers, used on yachts to create clean fresh from salt water.

And yes, all water in the US belongs to someone, a crazy complex of law that varies in every jurisdiction.

 

[bullfrog]

Don't suck up any Colorado River water, people have been killed for that. Check out the homesteaders sites for large amounts and hiking sites for smaller amounts. If it was easy people on the rez wouldn't be hauling so much water.

 

[RVTravel]

I would pay for water as a last resort.

 

[highdesertranger]

you are demanding to much from a 12v pump. as Guy pointed out the difference between head and suction I won't go there. much better to put the pump at or in the water. or just do it manually with buckets. why so much water? 100 gallons for camp use would last me at least 2 months. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

> desire to live large where enviroment permits

12V in itself is not a power limitation.

Just that very powerful units would be specialist and very expensive.

Going uphill the pump should be at the bottom.

 

[Pebbles]

 why so much water?  100 gallons for camp use would last me at least 2 months.  highdesertranger

Really. And at 8 pounds to the gallon, why would you want to haul around a extra 800 pounds of dead weight for no reason, except your own personal warm fuzzy? To each their own I guess?

 

[tx2sturgis]

Have a valid will in effect, and on file with someone.

:dodgy:

 

[frater secessus]

if you use bleach to kill the bacteria, do you really want to then drink bleach-tainted water?

That's a personal decision. It's one solution out of many (no pun intended).

Bleach is popular because it is incredibly cheap, works quickly, is widely available, requires no power, and kills bacteria in relatively low concentrations.  The chlorine load can be reduced afterward by splashing or pouring. 

 Surely there must be a safer way to purify/sanitize water

Bleach isn't unsafe at disinfection levels, it just tastes strong.

 

[frater secessus]

And at 8 pounds to the gallon, why would you want to haul around a extra 800 pounds of dead weight for no reason, except your own personal warm fuzzy?

To boondock in the desert longer.  To share with others.  For cleaning.  For feeding swamp coolers.  

People carry around 800# of all kinds of BS with them.  Water seems like a positively genius choice compared to some of the useless crap people drag all over the planet.  Myself included.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I agree with the concept but putting it into practice is a bit more complicated, (filtering, purifying, boiling, etc) and if 100 gallons of water means 100 days of independence, then you might also need 100 days of food also. How much does that weigh?

Granted, freeze dried provisions don't weigh much, but then you are consuming water to reconstitute/prepare them. 

And freeze dried foods are not cheap. 

Of course, fishing and hunting and eating off the land can extend all that. But now we have hours and hours spent gathering, hunting, fishing. And that will use consumable supplies. Plus, will you also have the time to obtain and process all the water?

It definitely works in a stationary setting, people and cultures do it all the time. But trying to transport all the water and supplies and gear and then finding productive locations, and the time to do it all, seems like a lot of work and money involved to make it all happen.

If someone comes up with a safe, inexpensive, reliable, palatable way to recycle urine, then we might be on to something!

But...not for me....I'll drive to the store. 

 

[lenny flank]

I have a dumb question: if you use bleach to kill the bacteria, do you really want to then drink bleach-tainted water?  Surely there must be a safer way to purify/sanitize water (I'm certainly not the expert).

It doesn't take a lot of bleach to disinfect water. After all, we SWIM in chlorinated pools all the time and it doesn't kill anyone (and disinfecting drinking water requires lower levels than pool water). And if you let it stand for a while, the chlorine will evaporate out. I've done it a few times while backpacking.

The part I'm not grasping is why and how one would carry almost half a ton of water around with them.......?

 

[WanderingCanuck]

The same, or at least similar, idea has crossed my mind as well.  Where I am there's plenty of very clean fresh water, and lots of places you could draw it without drawing attention.  The quantity proposed by the OP is a bit excessive compared to the maximum 5 day capacity I worked out for myself though, which is about 45 gallons being conservative.

Depending on one's needs, the entire amount doesn't need purified.  Anything you're already boiling is good to go.  Anything used for bathing is also fine, as long as you'd swim in the source water.

For non-boiled drinking needs, a gravity filter should do the trick if you aren't in an area with viruses.  Most of the water-born pathogens where I am are easily filtered out, and the gravity filter does it quickly.  My concern would be unknown chemical contaminants due to industrial or farm runoff.  I'm still working out a way to detect and avoid those.

I wouldn't be keeping it in the tank too long though, and periodic sterilization would be prudent - maybe essential to avoid bacterial growth.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

#1 drawing from pristine/clearwater streams, rivers and lakes. I'm thinking of a system to take on 100 gallons of water in 10 minutes of less using a clear vinyl tube or translucent poly hose, I should be able to unreel the hose, throw the hose in the water, start the pump, reel in the hose when finished filling. The pump should be 12v, capable of 100 foot of head, and not need priming while water is sucked up to it 100 feet up from water level. I can put a strainer on the intake end.
You will need to check state and local laws for surface or ground water collection.  In most of the Southwest all surface water is owned by someone and they are usually very aggressive about protecting it.
The maximum you can suck water is what the atmospheric pressure is in inches of water, somewhere around 400" (33 ft.).  Any more you need a push pump.
It will take a 3/4" ID hose for 10 gal/min, for suction it needs to be very stiff.  Won't roll up easily and will take up a lot of room.
It will take a minimum of 2250 watts to push 100 gallons of water up 100 ft.
Flexible tubing will increase the power needed.
A strainer on the intake will increase the power needed.  The finer the strainer the more power needed.

#2 rainwater collection. On the trailer conversion I will add aluminum C-channels on both sides to be gutters, at the ends I'll have tubes which go through a screening bucket then into the freshwater tank.
Legality of rainwater collection varies by locale also.
You will need 3" of rain to collect 100 gallons off a 7' X 8' horizontal area.

#3 snow melt in winter. Take white snow and dump it into the straining bucket which discharges into the freshwater tank. Or throw snow and ice onto the roof when it will melt. I'll clean out the straining bucket when needed.
You will need lots of snow.  Water content of fresh snow varies by temperature 1:10 @ 30ºF to 1:50 @ -10ºF.
Ice is 1:1   It will take lots of sun to melt 3" of ice.
You will loose about half of snow/ice to sublimation.

I will install an overflow hose at the top of the freshwater tank which dumps overflow freshwater outside. All water will be treated with bleach to kill bacteria and I will test using test strips or color solution for deadly chemicals.
Be sure to use only pure chlorine bleach.  A lot of the laundry bleach you buy has additives that are harmful.

IMO it would be cheaper and easier to buy water from a towns waterworks or get it from a dump station.

 

[sushidog]

I sometimes travel with my tanks full, if I'm going to stop en route and no water is readily available. However, if we need to climb a steep mountain grade, such as the one to the Chisos Basin at Big Bend, NP, or go over long, very bumpy roads, (which we often do) we will travel with empty tanks for safety sake, as I tow with a 4 cyl car with a class 1 hitch, that is pushed near its max capacity.

If I am boondocking or camping in a CG with a common spigot, I fill a blue 7 gallon Aquatainer (with usually no more than 6 gallons as it weigh about 50 lbs) and carry it to the camper. Rather than lifting it (as I'm old and it's heavy) [] and pouring it into a small funnel - a time consuming 2 person job, I bought one of these and let battery power do the work.

It is a Rule iL280. I forgot where I got it, but I ordered it online. Zodi used to market it under their brand name with the addition of a threaded hose connector (so you can attach it to a garden hose.) I think I paid about $60 for mine (they are cheaper without the garden hose attachment.) A Rule iL200 would work if you are on a budget and it is about 1/2 the price. It's only rated for intermittent use, but I only run mine for less than a minute at a time anyway. I believe it has slightly less output (200 GPH vs 280 GPH) but that's not really that much difference for the big price difference. If I had it to do over again, I probably buy the iL280 without the adapter, as I only use mine for short distances. The hose attachment is good if you are 50-100 ft away from a water source.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rule-iL280...d=112060723519&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m2219

It empties the Aquatainer into my fresh tank in under a minute. I usually need to do this twice to fill my 10 gallon tank and replenish my 6 gallon water heater on shower day (usually every other day when boondocking.) If I need to draw water from a stream to bathe, we won't drink from the tap until we disinfect the system. We don't drink from the tap anyway, preferring the taste of bottled water, though we sometimes use it for cooking or coffee making (which will be suspended if stream water is necessitated.)

They also make one with a portable battery. https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=58667

Chip

 

[debit.servus]

Came back to 19 replies. Thanks for the water pump science, I was wondering why I didn't see self priming, 100' lift water pumps. Things are done for a reason.

As usual science doesn't match economics. A suction pump that can lift water at 10 GPM 100' is scientifically possible but economically unfeasible unless you're a well funded part of government or money isn't an object.

I should have mentioned my other pump idea which is to have a 12v submersible bilge pump inside a strainer bag to the end of the 100' hose, capable of 100' of head at 10 GPM. Far easier and the pump can be made to float on the surface or sink down. All that's needed is 100' of waterproof (to prevent short circuits) 12v wire attached to, glued to or ran inside of the hose (running the wires inside the hose, wires need to be fully sheathed to prevent short circuits - the reason for this is not have to zip tie the wiring on the outside of the hose). The pump in strainer bag will be pierced, zip tied or knotted with the hose so it's secured to the end of the hose.

Wow, people have been killed over water in the United States? An extended shower is not worth my life. For drinking and cooking water I'll have 5 gallon jugs filled from the pure water dispenser.

When it comes to bleached Water can I let the water sit so the bleach evaporates and half life's to nothing? I'm thinking of having a renewable particulate and taste filter (or one of the camco filters) before the diaphragm pump that supplies all the taps in the rig.

This thread is about discussing unothodox options to acquire freshwater, to have feasible options when and where municipal water isn't available. I advise these methods as options down the chain of options. Collecting rainwater of unknown purity and toxicity should be the last resort

 

[Grizzly708]

Ok, this may sound like a smart ass answer but I am serious. 
Check out the reverse osmosis water purifier with pump at www.idahomotorpool.com  it would mean pulling a small trailer but it answers all issues brought up in the replies.

 

[highdesertranger]

bilge pumps only have a head of a few feet.  they are meant to lift water out of the bilge,  that's it.  as someone who has dealt with pumps what you are asking for will take some money.  I have 2 of these,



you put it at the water source,  it will suck about 15 feet(the less the better).  it will pump 300 gal per minute,  with a 2 inch fire hose and nozzle it will shoot a stream of water about 150 feet(you better hold on tight),  it will pump a 180 foot head.  price 1k+.  mind you at 180 feet of head you are not going to get 300g/m,  lots of loses involved.  again I ask why are you looking to pump so much water?  20 five gallon buckets will get you 100 gallons and you won't have to go to the gym.   also like other have stated you can't just pump a lot of surface water willy nilly.  highdesertranger